Dougie Jones Discussion

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How do you feel about the Dougie Jones arc?

Loved it
22
49%
Liked it
5
11%
It was alright
11
24%
Disliked it
2
4%
Hated it
5
11%
 
Total votes: 45
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LL-FF-SS
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Dougie Jones Discussion

Postby LL-FF-SS » Fri Sep 15, 2017 4:55 am

I thought it'd be fitting to have a thread dedicated to the most divisive character of season 3. Feel free to discuss how you felt about this part of season 3 and all of the things it encompassed.

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I loved Dougie Jones. It took me until the ending of Part 5 to stop viewing him as a carrot on a stick, and start enjoying him for what I, at that point, came to conclude as the emotional center of season 3. I remember feeling very strange about him the first time I watched Part 5, being entertained, but continually asking myself what actual purpose it had, beyond the slapstick humor that it brought. But seeing him with the statue was, and really remains the most poignant moment with Cooper in the series to me. He brought the most beautiful, and most comedic moments of Season 3. The supporting characters of the Las Vegas storyline were all great as well, which certainly is key in what helped make this as enjoyable as it was.

I also found it really impressive how they were able to celebrate the more fanservicey elements of the show, without it feeling like they're retreading past glories. I think that's something most revivals get wrong, they just regurgitate old material thinking it will have the same magic it once did, but it never does. Pointing at the audience and going "Remember that thing?" is never a good idea, this was almost the inverse of that, the audience pointing at Dougie and yelling "HEY! REMEMBER THAT?"

At first I thought it would be far more cynical than it ended up being, that him going by unnoticed would serve as some hacky message about people being too self absorbed to notice when someone is in need of help. But it ended up taking the complete opposite direction, instead being full of warmth and positivity. Seeing his positive influence on the people around him, and the kindness they gave in return, Bushnell Mullins in particular.

Maybe it is really hard for some people to reconcile how far this farce was taken and how unrealistic it is that people around him would just go with it. I think a legitimate criticism of it could probably be that so much of it is just happenstance, and if it had been any other character it would certainly feel like bad writing, but given that the "happenstance" is so deeply woven into what the character represents, it never ended up feeling contrived to me.

Voice your opinions, I'd love to hear them.
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Troubbble
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Re: Dougie Jones Discussion

Postby Troubbble » Fri Sep 15, 2017 6:12 am

Think you did a great job of summing up what was great about the Las Vegas storyline, which my girlfriend and I enjoyed throughout. I agree that this was a brilliant way to AVOID fan service, while simultaneously reveling in it, uniquely and interestingly.

One thing I wish we could do though, is stop referring to this character as Dougie Jones. I get how that works as shorthand, and I've done it myself, but think it kind of distracts from one of the central points of the show--that it's all about Dale, regardless of what form or condition we're seeing him in.

Not a criticism of you, specifically! Just floating this out there, since this is a "Dougie" thread. I think it makes for a more clear conversation to use the name Dougie Jones only when referencing the tulpa from Part 3.
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Firewalkwithme91
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Re: Dougie Jones Discussion

Postby Firewalkwithme91 » Fri Sep 15, 2017 8:37 am

I love Dougie! I´m currently rewatching the series (just finished part 7) and the Dougie-storyline really tears my heart out. All these scenes between Cooper and Janey-E and Sonny-Jim are so much more heartbreaking now, knowing that Cooper is in there all the time. He has this sweet moments with his "family", like when he sits in bed with Sonny-Jim or later when he shares those intimate moments with Janey-E and it just kills me that Cooper will probably never be able to have a family on his own and experience all these wonderful things. In the end of the show he could´ve returned to those two but he had to go on his mission again, thereby giving them up. All these scenes between him and his family just seem so much more poignant now, knowing that Cooper refills his empty cup - after spending so much time in the lodge - with the love of the people around him. It´s a beautiful story.

He´s not just a passive observer. When he goes through the case files, investigating Anthony´s frauds, he is our Cooper. A detective under any life circumstances, doing what he does best: connecting dots and solving crimes. Even though he doesn´t seem concious of what he´s doing, he´s still in there often right at the edge of breaking out of his Dougie-shell.

In general I think this was the best way to deal with Cooper being in the lodge for 25 years. If he had returned with full capacities after two episodes or whatever, this whole storyline would be a joke. Because how bad and damaging can it really be to spend this huge amount of time in this otherworldy place if you can snap out of it after a couple of days. The Dougie storyline was heartbreaking, sad, poignant, fairytale-like and often times hilarious.
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LL-FF-SS
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Re: Dougie Jones Discussion

Postby LL-FF-SS » Fri Sep 15, 2017 9:40 am

Firewalkwithme91 wrote:He´s not just a passive observer. When he goes through the case files, investigating Anthony´s frauds, he is our Cooper. A detective under any life circumstances, doing what he does best: connecting dots and solving crimes. Even though he doesn´t seem concious of what he´s doing, he´s still in there often right at the edge of breaking out of his Dougie-shell.

That's what I find so beautiful about this arc. The way they manage to convey a lot of the emotions that Cooper would be going through, but on pure intuition. Statue and the shoes is an obvious one, a less obvious one would be the the case files scene with Bushnell. This scene is kind of a microcosm of all the reasons why I love Dougie so much. Bushnell showing an incredible amount of patience for him, going through each and every individual file despite the fact they appear to be nothing but childish scribbles. While he's doing that Dougie is right there in the moment "Make sense of it." doing what he always does, but when he repeats those words "Help Dougie" there's a vulnerability to his delivery, suggesting that he is in there and affected by all of this despite not intellectually processing it. The most beautiful part of the scene is when he looks to the "Battling Bud" poster and then to Bushnell and then back at the poster, realizing that they're the same person. This is Dougie reflecting on the passage of time and growing older, which hurts so much because of all the years we know Cooper lost to the lodge.

The scene is shot beautifully, and I love how slow moving it is, the way the camera predictably traces along Dougie's POV as he looks up to the poster, so gentle and tranquil along with the fantastic "Windswept" playing over it. It is one of my favorite scenes from the season. I feel so many emotions watching it, it's hilarious, beautiful and heartbreaking all at the same time.

Part of me completely understands why people dislike Dougie, sometimes I wonder who's right about what, how much of a Twin Peaks fan am I for enjoying Dougie Jones and Las Vegas far more than anything else in the season? How can I really blame anyone going in wanting more Twin Peaks and not being pleased with this? But what saddens me a little bit is when I see people with nothing but impatience for the character, not thinking of him as a legitimate exploration of Cooper's character, but as a waste of time--stalling--nothing but a carrot on a stick. Watching every scene with baited breath, wanting it to be over and for Cooper to snap back, as if that is the only purpose this storyline serves.

It was a beautiful and inspiring way to bring Cooper back to television. I can't remember the last time a character has filled me with as much joy as Dougie has.

Troubbble wrote:One thing I wish we could do though, is stop referring to this character as Dougie Jones. I get how that works as shorthand, and I've done it myself, but think it kind of distracts from one of the central points of the show--that it's all about Dale, regardless of what form or condition we're seeing him in.

Not a criticism of you, specifically! Just floating this out there, since this is a "Dougie" thread. I think it makes for a more clear conversation to use the name Dougie Jones only when referencing the tulpa from Part 3.

Sorry, only did it for clarity's sake. Had I mentioned Dale, people would probably have assumed cognizant Dale. I totally agree with you that "Dougie" is an exploration of Dale Cooper, he's the very heart of the show this time.
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Saturn's child
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Re: Dougie Jones Discussion

Postby Saturn's child » Fri Sep 15, 2017 9:56 am

LL-FF-SS wrote:I feel so many emotions watching it, it's hilarious, beautiful and heartbreaking all at the same time.


In a sentence, this captures the 'Dougie' arc for me; well put.
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twin-b
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Re: Dougie Jones Discussion

Postby twin-b » Sun Sep 17, 2017 10:30 am

Firewalkwithme91 wrote:In general I think this was the best way to deal with Cooper being in the lodge for 25 years. If he had returned with full capacities after two episodes or whatever, this whole storyline would be a joke. Because how bad and damaging can it really be to spend this huge amount of time in this otherworldy place if you can snap out of it after a couple of days. The Dougie storyline was heartbreaking, sad, poignant, fairytale-like and often times hilarious.

The reason for DougieCoop was never clear to me. Why was Coop in this disabled state? Was he affected by the electrical method of returning from the mauve room/non-existence(?) or was it his 25 years in the lodge or was it that he wasn't supposed to be outside of the lodge without DoppelCoop going back in? In the end, that bit said by the arm doesn't see to be true. The arm's doppelgänger and Coop being nonexistent but then finding his way to being DougieCoop never made sense to me and just seemed very messy.
douglasb
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Re: Dougie Jones Discussion

Postby douglasb » Sun Sep 17, 2017 1:23 pm

It's banal to say that if Cooper had woken up after two episodes S3 would have been a "joke". If L&F had wanted him to wake up then, the story would have clearly gone in a different direction. Maybe Cooper would have been involved in actually trying to track down BadCoop. It might have been exciting!
IAmHappeningAgain
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Re: Dougie Jones Discussion

Postby IAmHappeningAgain » Sun Sep 17, 2017 2:56 pm

I can't imagine being able to sit through this twice.
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Ashok
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Re: Dougie Jones Discussion

Postby Ashok » Sun Sep 17, 2017 6:33 pm

I loved it. The Vegas storyline is every bit as important to the Agent Cooper's story as the original story in the small town of Twin Peaks. Just rewatching old episodes knowing the Laura Palmer and Windom Earle stories are set in the same world as the Mitchum Brothers and Candie is just magical.
"Whatever happened, happened." -Daniel Faraday
claaa7
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Re: Dougie Jones Discussion

Postby claaa7 » Sun Sep 17, 2017 10:01 pm

the "Dougie Jones" storyline brought so much joy to my life i must say.. there were many, many times i smiled, laughed and cheered for Cooper in the Las Vegas storyline at the same time as you felt the deep tragedy behind it. but the way it was written, directed and acted it really radiated warmth and as you say it feels like the very heart of The Return. ep. 5 and 6 was probably what brought it home for me as well - going from the hysterical scene in the elevator which so perfectly captured the unnecessary stress we put on ourselves (even better captured with the crazy honking horn lady in ep. 11) to Cooper seeing the statue and being reminded of something that he can't quite capture.. then the "Windswept" theme creeping in, the feeling of being lost in a huge, unknown world with nowhere to go but home (but where is home?). it was really something! and it still grabs me the same way on rewatches... but what an unexpected move on Lynch and Frost's part to put Cooper in this situation for such a large part of the season. I really liked seeing the contrast between the ice cold Mister C who brought nothing but negative vibes, pain and death all around him and Cooper in Dougie's world, so childlike and innocent, and just like a baby spreading love, laughter and joy into the world around him.
BloodyHeartland
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Re: Dougie Jones Discussion

Postby BloodyHeartland » Sun Sep 17, 2017 11:11 pm

I have a bit of a different take on things...of course, one more closely represents what is classically good, and the other evil, but I also feel both Dougie and Mr. C are meant to show different attitudes towards how one lives their life.

Dougie almost never had his own agency, always strung along by Mike to end up in the right place at the right time, and although he would reap the benefits, they were always more for those around him. It was only by the end that he made his own decision, to put the fork in the outlet, that he got Cooper back, and everyone paid back in kind.

Mr. C has for sure had some innocent victims, but I find it interesting that most of the people he killed or victimized on screen didn't lead the most honest lives themselves. Of course for him it wasn't really judgement, he just wanted anyone and everyone out of his way. And for having done most of his work himself, he almost did get what he wanted.

Now as far as whether I enjoyed Dougie, that's a hard sell. I liked what was there and ultimately it served the ending, but I can't help but feel we could have got Cooper back a bit sooner.
claaa7
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Re: Dougie Jones Discussion

Postby claaa7 » Mon Sep 18, 2017 7:56 am

just something i need to add as i came across this picture from TR.. Maclachlan really knocked it out the park with all the characters he played this year. looking at the picture below there would be no doubt in anyone's mind which of the characters he is inhabiting:

Image

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