TP:TR. Full 18-hour experience

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bosguy1981
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Re: TP:TR. Full 18-hour experience

Postby bosguy1981 » Sun Jan 07, 2018 8:12 am

richsmith wrote:Watching Episode 8, and to a lesser extent 11, on the big screen at MOMA among an almost-full house of Lynch aficionados was one of the more fun screening experiences in recent memory. The image quality of this series, when projected in DCP, is utterly stunning. And so far the experience of watching the first 11 episodes back to back, revisiting most of them for the first time, has made me appreciate the series so much more. Even the lesser episodes, such as 9 and 10, are a lot more interesting than I thought on first viewing, and what is surprising to me watching now, knowing exactly where the series is going, is just how completely in control Lynch is at every moment. Going back today for parts 12-18, and cannot wait for how that last hour is going to look.


Are they doing short breaks between episodes, or between every two episodes or something? I was curious how they were handling that.

Hope you enjoy the final day!
claaa7
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Re: TP:TR. Full 18-hour experience

Postby claaa7 » Sun Jan 07, 2018 10:50 am

something else very striking with watching the series in larger chunks and also having seen it many times and had plenty of time to think about it is that the storytelling of the piece really has started to make full-on internal sense.. this is pretty much the same thing that happened with Inland Empire, Lost Highway and Mulholland Drive, all features that are very startling and disorienting on the first few watches. and here we had 18 hours of that so it asks A LOT of leg work / thought work from fans but its so worth it imo. readng "The Secret History" and "The Final Dossier" is a great investment for fans of the show too.

it really impresses me how well put together this gigantic screenplay must have been.
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asmahan
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Re: TP:TR. Full 18-hour experience

Postby asmahan » Sun Jan 07, 2018 10:05 pm

I saw 12-18 at MoMA today and I completely agree about how binging makes the pacing appear smooth and deliberate. There was a one hour intermission between 14 and 15 which was a little jarring but unavoidable considering the running time.
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Mr. Reindeer
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Re: TP:TR. Full 18-hour experience

Postby Mr. Reindeer » Mon Jan 08, 2018 5:58 am

asmahan wrote:I saw 12-18 at MoMA today and I completely agree about how binging makes the pacing appear smooth and deliberate. There was a one hour intermission between 14 and 15 which was a little jarring but unavoidable considering the running time.



You need an hour to process that Lissie performance. ;)

(I kid, I kid! I like the Lissie song a lot.)
richsmith
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Re: TP:TR. Full 18-hour experience

Postby richsmith » Mon Jan 08, 2018 6:16 am

bosguy1981 wrote:
richsmith wrote:Watching Episode 8, and to a lesser extent 11, on the big screen at MOMA among an almost-full house of Lynch aficionados was one of the more fun screening experiences in recent memory. The image quality of this series, when projected in DCP, is utterly stunning. And so far the experience of watching the first 11 episodes back to back, revisiting most of them for the first time, has made me appreciate the series so much more. Even the lesser episodes, such as 9 and 10, are a lot more interesting than I thought on first viewing, and what is surprising to me watching now, knowing exactly where the series is going, is just how completely in control Lynch is at every moment. Going back today for parts 12-18, and cannot wait for how that last hour is going to look.


Are they doing short breaks between episodes, or between every two episodes or something? I was curious how they were handling that.

Hope you enjoy the final day!


There was an hour break after Ep 8 on Saturday, and the same after Ep 14 on Sunday. Otherwise they played them straight through. Having now got to the end, I have to say my appreciation for this series is off the charts. It's just stunning in every way, and far more tight and cohesive than I gave it credit for on first viewing. Really, the only reservations I have left are: 1) there's still too much Dr Amp, 2) most of the new Roadhouse characters could easily be cut or trimmed, and 3) the Freddie/BOB fight still sticks out like a sore, wet, limp thumb.

Mostly, though, it struck me just how warm and moving the whole thing was. It really puzzles me that so many believe the series is cold, distanced, and unemotional. Perhaps it's because the emotional life wasn't presented in the soapier, more accessible manner of the first two seasons. But for as much as the pinnacle of S3 is found in its dark terrifying vision (climaxing in that ear-shattering scream which, on the big screen, provoked chills that didn't subside until long after I left MOMA), the quieter, more emotional moments were just as devastating; in particular, Dougie and the Mitchum Brothers at the piano bar at the end of Episode 11 (which felt to me on this go-around as the strongest outside the Eps 3/8/18 trifecta), and the Norma/Big Ed reconciliation brought me, a certified non-crier, to the verge of tears.
LateReg
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Re: TP:TR. Full 18-hour experience

Postby LateReg » Mon Jan 08, 2018 9:36 am

richsmith wrote:
bosguy1981 wrote:
richsmith wrote:Watching Episode 8, and to a lesser extent 11, on the big screen at MOMA among an almost-full house of Lynch aficionados was one of the more fun screening experiences in recent memory. The image quality of this series, when projected in DCP, is utterly stunning. And so far the experience of watching the first 11 episodes back to back, revisiting most of them for the first time, has made me appreciate the series so much more. Even the lesser episodes, such as 9 and 10, are a lot more interesting than I thought on first viewing, and what is surprising to me watching now, knowing exactly where the series is going, is just how completely in control Lynch is at every moment. Going back today for parts 12-18, and cannot wait for how that last hour is going to look.


Are they doing short breaks between episodes, or between every two episodes or something? I was curious how they were handling that.

Hope you enjoy the final day!


There was an hour break after Ep 8 on Saturday, and the same after Ep 14 on Sunday. Otherwise they played them straight through. Having now got to the end, I have to say my appreciation for this series is off the charts. It's just stunning in every way, and far more tight and cohesive than I gave it credit for on first viewing. Really, the only reservations I have left are: 1) there's still too much Dr Amp, 2) most of the new Roadhouse characters could easily be cut or trimmed, and 3) the Freddie/BOB fight still sticks out like a sore, wet, limp thumb.

Mostly, though, it struck me just how warm and moving the whole thing was. It really puzzles me that so many believe the series is cold, distanced, and unemotional. Perhaps it's because the emotional life wasn't presented in the soapier, more accessible manner of the first two seasons. But for as much as the pinnacle of S3 is found in its dark terrifying vision (climaxing in that ear-shattering scream which, on the big screen, provoked chills that didn't subside until long after I left MOMA), the quieter, more emotional moments were just as devastating; in particular, Dougie and the Mitchum Brothers at the piano bar at the end of Episode 11 (which felt to me on this go-around as the strongest outside the Eps 3/8/18 trifecta), and the Norma/Big Ed reconciliation brought me, a certified non-crier, to the verge of tears.


Thank you for sharing your thoughts! I'm so envious that you got to see it this way.

Regarding your lingering complaints, let me just say that I LOVE the Roadhouse characters. I think the scenes themselves are extraordinary in terms of mood, composition, writing and lighting, and furthermore that they are probably in some way a huge component of what Lynch/Frost are getting at. They're some of my favorite scenes.

As far as Green Glove is concerned, I may be in the minority that actually views the scene as excitingly, disorientingly, artistically executed - for what it is. That said, of course I am also disappointed in it, and I think a lot of us have been going around in circles on this, but isn't that the point? Isn't the scene a comment on Deus ex Machina, meeting demands of storytelling while denying them completely; on how dissatisfying typical resolution can be (freeing the thing up to go further into unexpected opening-endings); a parody of the dominant mode of third act climaxes in major blockbusters? In a season that constantly makes us question what we're seeing and wanting, I think this scene is the pinnacle of that. It's hilarious when Cooper shows up late to the party to save the day and asks "Are you Freddy?" So yeah. Not satisfying at all, but something else entirely.
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N. Needleman
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Re: TP:TR. Full 18-hour experience

Postby N. Needleman » Tue Jan 09, 2018 12:27 am

I love Freddie forever.
AnotherBlueRoseCase wrote:The Return is clearly guaranteed a future audience among stoners and other drug users.
BGate
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Re: TP:TR. Full 18-hour experience

Postby BGate » Tue Jan 09, 2018 11:58 am

Roadhouse scenes are some of my favorite in the entire thing. They're essential.
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TP:TR. Full 18-hour experience

Postby yaxomoxay » Tue Jan 09, 2018 12:20 pm

LateReg wrote:
richsmith wrote:
bosguy1981 wrote:
Are they doing short breaks between episodes, or between every two episodes or something? I was curious how they were handling that.

Hope you enjoy the final day!


There was an hour break after Ep 8 on Saturday, and the same after Ep 14 on Sunday. Otherwise they played them straight through. Having now got to the end, I have to say my appreciation for this series is off the charts. It's just stunning in every way, and far more tight and cohesive than I gave it credit for on first viewing. Really, the only reservations I have left are: 1) there's still too much Dr Amp, 2) most of the new Roadhouse characters could easily be cut or trimmed, and 3) the Freddie/BOB fight still sticks out like a sore, wet, limp thumb.

Mostly, though, it struck me just how warm and moving the whole thing was. It really puzzles me that so many believe the series is cold, distanced, and unemotional. Perhaps it's because the emotional life wasn't presented in the soapier, more accessible manner of the first two seasons. But for as much as the pinnacle of S3 is found in its dark terrifying vision (climaxing in that ear-shattering scream which, on the big screen, provoked chills that didn't subside until long after I left MOMA), the quieter, more emotional moments were just as devastating; in particular, Dougie and the Mitchum Brothers at the piano bar at the end of Episode 11 (which felt to me on this go-around as the strongest outside the Eps 3/8/18 trifecta), and the Norma/Big Ed reconciliation brought me, a certified non-crier, to the verge of tears.


Thank you for sharing your thoughts! I'm so envious that you got to see it this way.

Regarding your lingering complaints, let me just say that I LOVE the Roadhouse characters. I think the scenes themselves are extraordinary in terms of mood, composition, writing and lighting, and furthermore that they are probably in some way a huge component of what Lynch/Frost are getting at. They're some of my favorite scenes.

As far as Green Glove is concerned, I may be in the minority that actually views the scene as excitingly, disorientingly, artistically executed - for what it is. That said, of course I am also disappointed in it, and I think a lot of us have been going around in circles on this, but isn't that the point? Isn't the scene a comment on Deus ex Machina, meeting demands of storytelling while denying them completely; on how dissatisfying typical resolution can be (freeing the thing up to go further into unexpected opening-endings); a parody of the dominant mode of third act climaxes in major blockbusters? In a season that constantly makes us question what we're seeing and wanting, I think this scene is the pinnacle of that. It's hilarious when Cooper shows up late to the party to save the day and asks "Are you Freddy?" So yeah. Not satisfying at all, but something else entirely.


The more I think about Freddie and his fight the more I believe his purpose was to make sure that we understand one thing: the climax of TP/TP:TR is not the fight between Cooper and BOB. It’s not about two enemies that have to fight to the sword at dawn. It’s about something much much bigger.
In other words, Freddie is just a ridiculous character created on purpose to downplay an event so that people don’t focus that much on it as if it were a resolution of the greater plot.


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TwistedFate_L4
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Re: TP:TR. Full 18-hour experience

Postby TwistedFate_L4 » Wed Jan 10, 2018 5:09 pm

I love the roadhouse characters and conversations. It fleshes out the town and the community and shows that there will always be stories transpiring in Twin Peaks even when we may not know their direct beginnings or endings. Life isn't like a tightly paced or strategically plotted novel that follows only certain people, we all are the stars of our own stories. It's quite wonderful stuff.
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Mr. Reindeer
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Re: TP:TR. Full 18-hour experience

Postby Mr. Reindeer » Wed Jan 10, 2018 6:11 pm

I’ve said it before, but I have to chime in: the random Roadhouse townie scenes are among my favorite parts of the show as well. So many terrific little characters and moments to think about. For instance, Scott Coffey’s entrance is such a thing of beauty.
Tonydes
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Re: TP:TR. Full 18-hour experience

Postby Tonydes » Thu Jan 11, 2018 1:11 am

I think Freddie and the Green Glove is the equivalent of the stuffed Robin at the end of Blue Velvet. We should be wary because it’s too good to be true. Something is ‘off’ and should be questioned.
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Mr. Reindeer
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Re: TP:TR. Full 18-hour experience

Postby Mr. Reindeer » Thu Jan 11, 2018 6:05 am

Tonydes wrote:I think Freddie and the Green Glove is the equivalent of the stuffed Robin at the end of Blue Velvet. We should be wary because it’s too good to be true. Something is ‘off’ and should be questioned.


The fact that something was intended as a subversive commentary on storytelling conventions (as Frost has implied) doesn’t make it inherently good. Metacommentary, like all other storytelling choices, must be judged on the merits of how well it comes across onscreen. A storyteller can choose to deliberately deny viewers a conventionally satisfying payoff, and that in and of itself can be, contradictorily, even more satisfying (Part 18 is a great example of this). For me, the green glove fight is a lazy resolution set up with clunky exposition, and the fact that the creators intended it to be an amusing self-aware commentary on the use of deus ex machina doesn’t change the fact that the product we see onscreen is itself a pretty lame example of deus ex machina. You don’t get a free pass on lazy storytelling just because you intended it ironically.
LateReg
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Re: TP:TR. Full 18-hour experience

Postby LateReg » Thu Jan 11, 2018 9:20 am

Mr. Reindeer wrote:
Tonydes wrote:I think Freddie and the Green Glove is the equivalent of the stuffed Robin at the end of Blue Velvet. We should be wary because it’s too good to be true. Something is ‘off’ and should be questioned.


The fact that something was intended as a subversive commentary on storytelling conventions (as Frost has implied) doesn’t make it inherently good. Metacommentary, like all other storytelling choices, must be judged on the merits of how well it comes across onscreen. A storyteller can choose to deliberately deny viewers a conventionally satisfying payoff, and that in and of itself can be, contradictorily, even more satisfying (Part 18 is a great example of this). For me, the green glove fight is a lazy resolution set up with clunky exposition, and the fact that the creators intended it to be an amusing self-aware commentary on the use of deus ex machina doesn’t change the fact that the product we see onscreen is itself a pretty lame example of deus ex machina. You don’t get a free pass on lazy storytelling just because you intended it ironically.


I find it interesting that in a work filled with storytelling about storytelling and constantly denying instant gratification, that this is where you adamantly draw the line. It strikes me as intentionally dissatisfying, but it doesn't strike me as lazy at all, as there were a lot of pieces moved into place just so this particular showdown could occur. It was a very deliberate, highly orchestrated and therefore probably deeply thought out event. And as I believe laughingpinecone said and you agreed with, it sets things up so Cooper doesn't have to confront his own demons. Others have similarly pointed out other ways it resonates.

You and I first talked about the scene after it aired and I enjoyed the execution whereas you did not, and I think that's mostly what it comes down to; I think there's plenty to read into the scene - and it is suddenly set up by Cole's unexpected, hilariously headspinning and perhaps retconning monologue that opens Part 17, which begins the mad rush in a show that had all the time in the world and deliberately took its time only to pointedly give you this mad dash to the finish. You want it to be something else, and maybe it should be, but that it's this over the top and the one time the show rushes is significant enough to earn the benefit of the doubt from me. I know creators are fallible, but remember all the time people spent saying how there's not enough time left to tell the story, and others would reply that the whole thing had been mapped out and there is exactly as much time as Lynch needs? I remind myself of that while thinking of the unexpected rush at the beginning of Part 17. Freddie's a huge storytelling risk, but it and the "clunky exposition" leading up to it (in Part 14) were all extremely calculated pieces of a massive puzzle.
Last edited by LateReg on Thu Jan 11, 2018 9:34 am, edited 2 times in total.
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mtwentz
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Re: TP:TR. Full 18-hour experience

Postby mtwentz » Thu Jan 11, 2018 9:31 am

I love the Green Glove sequence. I actually find it pretty freaky, I think it's the sound Lynch threw in that makes that scene so compelling for me.
"Dougie is COOPER? How the Hell is this!?"

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