Cooper's conversation with The Fireman in episode 1 (linear and non-linear approaches)

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Re: Cooper's conversation with The Fireman in episode 1 (linear and non-linear approaches)

Postby eyeboogers » Sat Oct 07, 2017 1:24 pm

In episode 17 Gordon Cole reveals the plan he, Briggs and Cooper concocted together. At the time - 25 years ago, Cooper explained that the plan was about taking care of "two birds with one stone". To me that specific choice of word means the scene could take place way back - maybe even before Cooper got trapped in the first place.
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Re: Cooper's conversation with The Fireman in episode 1 (linear and non-linear approaches)

Postby Cappy » Mon Oct 09, 2017 9:50 am

eyeboogers wrote:In episode 17 Gordon Cole reveals the plan he, Briggs and Cooper concocted together. At the time - 25 years ago, Cooper explained that the plan was about taking care of "two birds with one stone". To me that specific choice of word means the scene could take place way back - maybe even before Cooper got trapped in the first place.


I hadn't really thought much about the plan to stop Judy devised by Cooper/Cole/Maj. Briggs. Given that Briggs was making random appearances at crime scenes over the course of 25 years, and Cooper can sort of defy time via The Red Room, there is no telling when these 3 actually put their plan together.
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Re: Cooper's conversation with The Fireman in episode 1 (linear and non-linear approaches)

Postby Cappy » Mon Oct 09, 2017 10:00 am

Mr. Reindeer wrote:I rewatched Part 14 just now and noted that Coop is wearing the FBI pin in Gordon’s dream (when Gordon can’t see his face).


I forgot about that. Possibly from Gordon's perspective, Cooper's social role (special agent) takes precedence over his actual personality/soul. If Gordon has a narrow and worldly view of what constitutes Dale Cooper, then it's worth considering that hearing Gordon Cole's name of all things is what woke Cooper up from his perfectly intuitive Dougie-state and into the more rational, literal Special Agent Dale Cooper. Like perhaps Cooper didn't wake up or become his true self as much as he was subsumed into Gordon Cole's view of him (and by extension, the world's view of him).
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Re: Cooper's conversation with The Fireman in episode 1 (linear and non-linear approaches)

Postby writersblock » Thu Oct 12, 2017 8:37 am

When Lodge entities refer to Dale Cooper as "Agent Cooper!" maybe they don't mean FBI Special Agent?

Maybe he is an Agent of The White Lodge?
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Re: RE: Re: Cooper's conversation with The Fireman in episode 1 (linear and non-linear approaches)

Postby BMS242 » Wed Oct 18, 2017 5:24 pm

claaa7 wrote:
eyeboogers wrote:
Fred wrote:The missing FBI pin is probably just a continuity error..


I sincerely doubt that the first scene of the season - a scene all about clues and being alert, would have such a glaring continuity error in it.


i agree. it seems that Lynch payed special attention to the pin when directing the series, it's in every scene (except the first) until he is sucked out into the huge electrical device and recreated in Rancho Rosa in ep. 3. likewise it is featured again in every scene from the boiler room in ep. 17.

i wonder if the scene always was written as the first scene in the script or if it initially was placed somewhere else. between 17 and 18 would make sense but the FBI lapel pin speaks against it imo.
Random thought based on the lack of the pin (which has probably already been thrown out there and I missed it). Wonder if he was sent to the Fireman when he electrocuted himself as Dougie. There's the connection of the Lodge beings with electricity and then him flickering away.

Notwithstanding that, I tend to think it was somehow after the events of 17.

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Re: Cooper's conversation with The Fireman in episode 1 (linear and non-linear approaches)

Postby Isis Unveiled » Fri Oct 20, 2017 9:37 pm

Firemen fight fire.

They regulate the flame.

Fire walk with who?

The renaming of the character from the giant to fireman is just Frost’s way of expanding on his original myth.

The only thing that stinks is the explanation of Judy...

Why would Gordon, Coop, & Briggs seek out a negative entity? Gordon never says they went to destroy Judy, yet that’s what we all presume they wanted to do.
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Re: Cooper's conversation with The Fireman in episode 1 (linear and non-linear approaches)

Postby Mace » Sat Oct 21, 2017 3:38 am

Firemen tend flames on steamships and locomotives as well.
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Re: Cooper's conversation with The Fireman in episode 1 (linear and non-linear approaches)

Postby Mr. Strawberry » Mon Dec 11, 2017 4:52 pm

Just had this weird half awake thought while reading these posts and simultaneously falling asleep due to a food coma:

We have accidentally allowed the "original dream" or "meaning" of the story to be "overwritten" while viewing Season 3, due to not paying close enough attention to what was actually happening. There was only one chance, and we were supposed to integrate the two by overlapping the new story with the old one, but now that it's melted and replaced with the current story, there's no way to go back and review the "original dream" because it was only revealed while initially imparted. There's nothing that can be done now other than speculate, using what we do have as the basis for conjecture and exploratory thought.

As I pulled out of my stupor, it almost felt like I'd gleaned some of Cooper's perspective (the final Cooper that we see in Odessa, that is).
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Re: Cooper's conversation with The Fireman in episode 1 (linear and non-linear approaches)

Postby Xavi » Tue Dec 12, 2017 3:38 am

A fireman is someone one hopes to see during a fire. He might be the last one to save you. After a fire, when it's too late so to speak, the possibility that he will find you becomes huge.
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Re: Cooper's conversation with The Fireman in episode 1 (linear and non-linear approaches)

Postby writersblock » Tue Dec 12, 2017 6:13 am

My personal canon has the conversation between Cooper and The Fireman happening while he is in the coma after being electrocuted.
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Re: Cooper's conversation with The Fireman in episode 1 (linear and non-linear approaches)

Postby baxter » Thu Dec 14, 2017 5:43 pm

I now really think that the conversation is that last thing (chronologically) that we see in the series. Cooper is very far away. He is asked to remember Richard and Linda from his past. i.e. this scene somehow shows us a future Cooper in peril being guided by the Fireman to get out of it.
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Re: Cooper's conversation with The Fireman in episode 1 (linear and non-linear approaches)

Postby Pinky » Thu Dec 14, 2017 6:28 pm

baxter wrote:I now really think that the conversation is that last thing (chronologically) that we see in the series. Cooper is very far away. He is asked to remember Richard and Linda from his past. i.e. this scene somehow shows us a future Cooper in peril being guided by the Fireman to get out of it.


I think I agree.
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Re: Cooper's conversation with The Fireman in episode 1 (linear and non-linear approaches)

Postby PeaksCarnivaleLost » Fri Dec 15, 2017 7:36 am

baxter wrote:I now really think that the conversation is that last thing (chronologically) that we see in the series. Cooper is very far away. He is asked to remember Richard and Linda from his past. i.e. this scene somehow shows us a future Cooper in peril being guided by the Fireman to get out of it.



It's possible. i like it from a standpoint about remembering Richard and Linda, but why would he need to remember 4 3 0 if he already used that info?

I lean more towards it happening right before the coma wake up. Like here is what you need to remember at this point in time.
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Re: Cooper's conversation with The Fireman in episode 1 (linear and non-linear approaches)

Postby Mr. Strawberry » Fri Dec 15, 2017 10:01 am

PeaksCarnivaleLost wrote:i like it from a standpoint about remembering Richard and Linda, but why would he need to remember 4 3 0 if he already used that info?

Maybe he needs to go back the way he came, and 4 3 0 will trigger the memory of his trip to the portal.
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Re: Cooper's conversation with The Fireman in episode 1 (linear and non-linear approaches)

Postby eyeboogers » Fri Dec 15, 2017 4:16 pm

Mr. Strawberry wrote:
PeaksCarnivaleLost wrote:i like it from a standpoint about remembering Richard and Linda, but why would he need to remember 4 3 0 if he already used that info?

Maybe he needs to go back the way he came, and 4 3 0 will trigger the memory of his trip to the portal.


I think it makes more sense that the scene is a "remember the plan we agreed on. Go to 430. Remember the fake identities you're supposed to hide under. And by the way, it is in our house now (it is important that this is dealt with now)." than a guide on how to backtrack back into reality.

I wish we had such a scene that would indicate where everything would move next, I don't think we do, but I hope we will get to experience that in a whole new season.

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