World of Blue - Archived Forum 2007-2022

Sad story if confirmed

https://usat.ly/2zEo05a


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Not sure how much more "confirmation" you need. Did you read the story?

BGate wrote:Not sure how much more "confirmation" you need. Did you read the story?

Playing devil’s advocate, there isn’t much actual evidence in the story at all. Just the accuser’s story, and the actress playing the mother who claims she saw the girl’s eyes go wide, and a whole bunch of “character evidence” from people saying Sizemore is generally a terrible person (which has been widely known for years). There is even a quote from a production member saying that the girl wasn’t sure what had happened or whether it was intentional.

I’m not saying I doubt the claims...these things are touchy, but my general default is to credit victims of abuse since they are too often silenced. But I certainly wouldn’t say that this article provides “confirmation.”

No statute of limitations for child molestation in Utah, so charge him already.

Stefan . . . recalls the parents "not wanting the little girl being taken off the movie."

BGate wrote:Not sure how much more "confirmation" you need. Did you read the story?

"Confirmation" = judgement

The courts are here to "confirm".

It's disgusting and incredibly saddening at once.

I want to *like* and *respect* Sizemore's performance in TP:TR, especially in Part 13. He was crooked and conniving then he made a convincing parlay into his character's alter ego of vulnerability and supplication.

But I loathe the impulse he's reported to have indulged, I've experienced this molestation once in my childhood that was at her same age, 11. This is sickening, really reprehensible what any such opportunist would force upon a child, someone as young as eleven who can't reconcile what's happening with what societal norms preach, that adults behave and in some cases imply they're to be trusted; then they violate that trust while violating a minor's body.
While she was in pajama's as her character. Inhabiting her role as a child.
A sick, sad society we are.

#nametheproblem once again.

Framed_Angel wrote:It's disgusting and incredibly saddening at once.

I want to *like* and *respect* Sizemore's performance in TP:TR, especially in Part 13. He was crooked and conniving then he made a convincing parlay into his character's alter ego of vulnerability and supplication.

But I loathe the impulse he's reported to have indulged, I've experienced this molestation once in my childhood that was at her same age, 11. This is sickening, really reprehensible what any such opportunist would force upon a child, someone as young as eleven who can't reconcile what's happening with what societal norms preach, that adults behave and in some cases imply they're to be trusted; then they violate that trust while violating a minor's body.
While she was in pajama's as her character. Inhabiting her role as a child.
A sick, sad society we are.

Clark Gable was a rapist. Should that color how an individual views Gone With The Wind?

It's an interesting question and totally up to the individual. For my part I try to detach the art from the artist. If enjoy ment of the art depends on the artist meeting a moral or political standard I set, it limits my choices.

On the other hand, I wonder if I'll be able to enjoy Kevin Spacey's movies in the future. I'll just have to see.

mtwentz wrote:Clark Gable was a rapist. Should that color how an individual views Gone With The Wind

Gone with the Wind doesn’t need any additional help being a troublesome viewing experience. Heck, Rhett Butler is also a rapist.

I find it easier to separate directors and actors from the work, as opposed to auteurs like Woody Allen and Louis CK who are both onscreen and deeply involved in the highly personal creative process.

Which gets us to Judy, whom Loretta Young didn’t want to talk about.

Mr. Reindeer wrote:

mtwentz wrote:Clark Gable was a rapist. Should that color how an individual views Gone With The Wind

Gone with the Wind doesn’t need any additional help being a troublesome viewing experience. Heck, Rhett Butler is also a rapist.

I find it easier to separate directors and actors from the work, as opposed to auteurs like Woody Allen and Louis CK who are both onscreen and deeply involved in the highly personal creative process.

True, true, true. Doesn't Scarlett wake up the next morning proclaiming how wonderful it was to be raped?

My big fear with all this stuff coming out about Hollywood- that the Gordon Cole-Tammy stuff in The Return amounted to some kind of 'mea culpa'. Hopefully that's not the case, but at this point, I think everyone in public life is a suspect. I mean Charlie Rose, for God's sake.

mtwentz wrote:I mean Charlie Rose, for God's sake.

Such a bummer.

You’re right; the Gordon/Tammy stuff is going to play differently in the current climate. I’m still not sure how much of that was done out of self-awareness vs. self-aggrandizement. Part 18 provides convincing support for those who maintain that much of the series was an indictment of toxic masculinity, including an acknowledgement of DKL’s own shortcomings (not where it counts, of course ). But I’m not quite sure that that intent, if it was on L/F’s minds, quite comes across onscreen without squinting really hard and looking for it in those scenes where the “casting couch” subtext is played for yuks. (See also Mark continuing to play the “creepy uncle Gordon” thing for comedy in TFD.)

And yes, every now and then I do a quick Google search, fearing that DKL will be the next one of my idols to fall. It felt like a punch to the gut to read what Matt Weiner and Louis CK, two of the auteurs I have admired most in the past ten years, did (in Weiner’s case, is alleged to have done), and two of my favorite TV series are forever tainted. Moments in both series that came across as brutally honest, human and in many cases extremely feministic condemnations of masculine dominance and abuse have been recontextualized as oddly confessional and creepy. And I as a viewer can’t help feeling a bit complicit in retrospect.

Of course, there has never been a whisper about DKL acting inappropriately as far as I know (as opposed to the CK rumors that circulated for years and the fact that anyone who followed Mad Men behind the scenes suspected/feared there was SOMETHING iffy about Kater Gordon’s firing); so I’m not particulary worried.

And of course this is all entitled whining; my “pain” at seeing my idols fall is nothing compared to the anguish these men caused (again, allegedly in Weiner’s case) to the women they abused and intimidated.

Anyway. Whatever the intent of Gordon’s portrayal in many scenes of the new show — whether intended as sly confessional/mea culpa for DKL’s own complicity in the objectification of women over the years, or just good ol’-fashioned fun — I didn’t think those beats landed particularly well, and they’re even more uncomfortable now that we’ve been reminded that predatory behavior and workplace abuse of power are very painful realities with long-lasting psychological effects.

EDIT: There is also of course DKL’s notorious push in the original series for the Gordon-Shelly romance, which plays as oddly sweet and innocent onscreen despite the age disparity, and which only feels acceptable in retrospect due to the fact that a mature, well-adjusted Mädchen still seems to look back on that scene fondly.

Mr. Reindeer wrote: And of course this is all entitled whining; my “pain” at seeing my idols fall is nothing compared to the anguish these men caused (again, allegedly in Weiner’s case) to the women they abused and intimidated.

Yes, and that's one thing we must always keep in perspective, it's the victims of abuse, when it occurs, that is far more important than the art of any of our idols.

That being said, I really hope and expect nothing more of this nature to come out about any of our idols.

Audrey Horne wrote:Which gets us to Judy, whom Loretta Young didn’t want to talk about.

Loretta Young, that was the actress. Terrible story- I can't imagine what it must be like to go through something like that and believe it's your own fault, because that is what society taught women at the time.