[spoilers] A theory on 8 and the 8.

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yaxomoxay
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[spoilers] A theory on 8 and the 8.

Post by yaxomoxay »

I just posted this (wild) theory on reddit (https://www.reddit.com/r/twinpeaks/comm ... and_the_8/). Reposting it here in case someone doesn’t want to open Reddit :)

I am not sure if this was brought up before, I searched but I couldn’t find anything on the same lines. In Episode 17 we see the infamous 8 (aka Infinite sign) that Jeffrey uses to “move” Coop in time. In the visual representation we see that the “sphere” crosses the intersection of the two cricles, which in this context is obviously an intersection in time. Now, when we go back to Episode 8 (and I am sure that the 8 is not random) we see the Fireman being warned about something by that weird bell while Madame Dido listen to her 30’s music. I think that most of us assumed that it had to do with the nuclear explosion and the creation of evil. Now, what if the alarm goes off because of Cooper’s action? What if the alarm sounds because the orb (Cooper) crossed the intersection, which is when the Fireman lives? I think that this would explain Carrie Page. By going back in time, Cooper effectively kills Laura’s true universe, with all that follows. The Fireman - who knows the ultimate meaning of Laura - has to take her and send her back to Earth, in a different form. That would explain why we see Laura’s portrait in the orb. This would also explain Madame Dido’s reaction of sorrow when she looks inside the orb, as Laura (or her soul) can’t simply be taken away from her demons without consequence. This theory would also explain why Laura disappears from Cooper’s hands as that would be the Fireman’s extraordinary action to bring back balance in the universe. Young Laura “becomes the orb” (as a matter of fact, when she disappears she is of the same age of her “orb”) and she’s pushed back as Carrie... which makes sense as Carrie clearly has some of Laura’s memories. If you think about it, Richard also has some of Cooper’s memories. At this point I am not sure that in Episode 8 we watched the creation of Laura; I am starting to think that we watched the creation of Carrie, or if you prefer the transposition of Laura into Carrie.

Edit: I think that this would also explain the “It’s in our house now”. This is meant to be the Orb, which is in the Fireman’s house to be sent back to Earth. That’s why the Fireman tell’s Cooper about Richard and Linda and the 430. He’s giving Cooper the instructions to search for Laura (again) which is Carrie (two birds... with one stone).


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LateReg
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Re: [spoilers] A theory on 8 and the 8.

Post by LateReg »

Very cool! I like it. Can you go into a little about "the orb (Cooper)" crossing the intersection? We didn't see his orb, then? And when you say her universe was killed, what do you mean?
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yaxomoxay
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Re: [spoilers] A theory on 8 and the 8.

Post by yaxomoxay »

LateReg wrote:Very cool! I like it. Can you go into a little about "the orb (Cooper)" crossing the intersection? We didn't see his orb, then? And when you say her universe was killed, what do you mean?
Absolutely.
I am debating with myself about Cooper’s “orb”. When good Cooper meets Mr. Teapot, we can see a nice steamy orb floating next to it. Then, if my memory is correct, it somehow transforms into the famous 8/infinite sign. I think that the steamy orb is Cooper’s “soul”, and the 8 is its timeline or that of the space-time continuum. Also note that inside the 8 there is a moving “ball”, which I assume is “today” as seen by Cooper. Cooper then decides to cross the intersection in the wrong direction and to go back in time. That must be when the alarm went off in the Fireman’s house as Cooper was changing something that was supposed to be set in stone.

As for the universe that was killed, I don’t mean that it ceases to exist, but it ceases to exist as we know it. Laura is missing and not dead. Yet, she’s dead! (There is no more Laura, there is only Carrie now)... that’s why she can truly say “I am dead, yet I live”.



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Isis Unveiled
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Re: [spoilers] A theory on 8 and the 8.

Post by Isis Unveiled »

Way to think out of the box! Yours is a very confounded hypothesis, indeed. I've been pondering that sphere that descends along the infinity symbol in episode 17, and so far your explanation is the first I've read that actually holds some weight to eight.

Though I would add, I've always assumed that the line "It is in our house now," or something rather, was explicitly referring to BOB/dopplecoop being present in the White Lodge at the very moment the line is uttered.

Also, I've always thought that Naido falling out of the portal into Andy's arms was the result of Naido falling off the tower in infinite space in episode 2 (or 3?) after she pulls down the lever, thus allowing coop to continue his descent into the lodge(s). She falls into the infinite space only to eventually plunge through the portal into Andy's hands. I also think dopplecoop carved Diane's eyes out when he murdered her, thus resulting in the disfigured and indistinguishable Naido that good coop encounters in the lodge.

And did anybody else notice that the numbers on the outlets in the lodge in the earlier episodes correspond to the actual episodes in which outlets are used by coop either to travel between worlds or to jolt himself back into lucidity? Perhaps that's why when he gazes at the outlet that's says 15 he is warned by Naido not to touch it, as it would place him in a disproportionate timeline in which he could not carry out the firemans orders. Eventually he travels through the outlet that says 3 to the home in Rancho Rosa, taking the place of Dougie. This literally occurs during episode 3, and episode 15 is where he sticks the fork in the outlet.

Literally, without having seen the return in its entirety one would never understand the significance of the numbers on the outlets in the lodge. It's as though Coop's entire descent through the lodge in episodes 2-3 allows him to peek at the future as it is already laid out for him, though totally unbeknownst to the audience until they have witnessed the return in its completion.

Good shit, guys!

P.S. a The most commonly depicted version of The Magician (1) in a Rider/Waite Tarot deck shows the infinity symbol hovering just above the magician's head as he is reaching into the heavens with his right hand and casting down his magick onto the world with his left hand, as above so below.

A good refresher course into the occult would definitely serve well, anyone wishing to understand the occult symbolism of Twin Peaks.
"I have the fury of my own momentum." - BOB
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Re: [spoilers] A theory on 8 and the 8.

Post by eyeboogers »

I think that you are on to many interesting things here. One part doesn't fit for me though.

When the fireman's alarm goes off, his reaction is to go to the Club Silencio theatre to witness what has transpired. We are shown the nuclear explosion and the havoc it has caused. I think the sequence of first the alarm, then the fireman getting information through the interdimensional newsreel and then acting on it is quite clear.

That doesn't mean that you can't be onto something with the rest of it though, I hope that you are.
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yaxomoxay
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[spoilers] A theory on 8 and the 8.

Post by yaxomoxay »

Isis Unveiled wrote:Way to think out of the box!
Lol, thanks. If I had to be honest the idea came after I experimented watching the scene without audio. Since Badalamenti's piece is incredible, \ I wanted to see if it was still as moving as with audio (in good part it is). By watching it without audio I asked myself a simple question: "what is the function of this scene?"
For the good of me I could not reconcile it with "the birth of Laura" as I assumed before. We already know that Laura is indeed an important individual and, under all the pain and sorrow, pure. We see her with angels, going to heaven. The Fireman makes sure than even Andy sees Laura with angels. That would be enough to know Laura's special nature. The other element that I could not reconcile the Laura's birth theory is Laura's birth. She was born on 7/22/1972. The first nuclear explosion was in July 1945. What is the purpose of creating Laura - going clearly through a major effort - send her orb on Earth... and wait 27 years (or 44 if we consider her death as the important element) while BOB roams the Earth? It doesn't make any sense.

This bring me to this point,
eyeboogers wrote:I think that you are on to many interesting things here. One part doesn't fit for me though.
When the fireman's alarm goes off, his reaction is to go to the Club Silencio theatre to witness what has transpired. We are shown the nuclear explosion and the havoc it has caused. I think the sequence of first the alarm, then the fireman getting information through the interdimensional newsreel and then acting on it is quite clear. That doesn't mean that you can't be onto something with the rest of it though, I hope that you are.
I am not sure that the "movie" is in real time (or even around the same era of the nuclear explosion). Why would the Fireman need an alarm like that for a nuclear explosion? Granted, in the big order of humanity the nuclear explosion is important. It is also clearly true that Judy/Experiment is powered up big time by the nuclear explosion. But what's the point of being warned and watching that? Keep in mind that the Fireman also waits quite a bit before going to the Club Silencio, clearly meditating on what is happening (and breaking the 4th wall).I think that he heads to the Club Silencio to link all the elements into Carrie (including us, the viewers) . He FEEDS from the video, he feeds from Laura, and recovers what was destroyed from what Cooper did (crossing the intersection), creating obviously the most powerful being on Earth (whatever universe/timeline it is): Carrie. Carrie is potentially much more powerful than Judy itself as the final scream would show (it still gives me chills).
Though I would add, I've always assumed that the line "It is in our house now," or something rather, was explicitly referring to BOB/dopplecoop being present in the White Lodge at the very moment the line is uttered.
I noticed that podcasts and most posts forget an important thing that was said. Even on this very forum ( viewtopic.php?f=29&t=3917 ). Everyone remembers "It's in our house now", "Remember 430, Richard and Linda, Two birds with one stone". If memory doesn't fail me, the Fireman says: "It all cannot be said aloud now" (after this sentence the Fireman gives the "clues", then Coop says "I understand", then the Fireman replies "You're far away" just before Coop expires). I think that this sentence refers to Carrie, and look at the pronoun. "It", which is used for both "in our house now" and "all cannot be said aloud now". I think that the Fireman is warning Cooper not to wake up Carrie, at least not now, probably because if she's loud (the scream) all hell break lose.
Also, I've always thought that Naido falling out of the portal into Andy's arms was the result of Naido falling off the tower in infinite space in episode 2 (or 3?) after she pulls down the lever, thus allowing coop to continue his descent into the lodge(s). She falls into the infinite space only to eventually plunge through the portal into Andy's hands. I also think dopplecoop carved Diane's eyes out when he murdered her, thus resulting in the disfigured and indistinguishable Naido that good coop encounters in the lodge.
I assumed that Naido is a human recorder. Can't see, can hear, and when you fast forward it makes that weird sound Image
P.S. a The most commonly depicted version of The Magician (1) in a Rider/Waite Tarot deck shows the infinity symbol hovering just above the magician's head as he is reaching into the heavens with his right hand and casting down his magick onto the world with his left hand, as above so below.
Oh I didn't think of it! Time to re-read the Meditations on the Tarot! https://www.amazon.com/Meditations-Taro ... 1585421618

I am also pretty sure that my theory has many holes, but I think we're getting closer.
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Re: [spoilers] A theory on 8 and the 8.

Post by Xavi »

"Laura is the one." Let's think about this a little while, because the words of the Log Lady were, and still are and always will be, very important. Laura's golden orb was being created immediately
after the nuclear disaster, literally above and out of the Giant's head. This orb also got all of Senorita Dido's love and blessings, before it started its journey to earth.

7 + 4 years later, in the dessert* of White Sand (we are not going to talk about the ambiguity of "Running out of Sand", now are we?) a creepy creature crawls out of one of probable Mother's eggs. This frogmoth finds its way to that innocent (1956) girl, who just first kissed her "boyfriend." Okay, so her name is Sarah (Novak Palmer).

Now what if this frogmoth did not come out of one of Mother's eggs, albeit out of the transformed golden Laura orb, that was sent by the Giant and Senorita Dido, and it was sent to earth for a very specific reason. This reason is to prevent the procreation of Sarah and BOB, uhh, Leland. This means that Laura is not Sarah's child, yet she was born from her. Laura was, is and alway will be, the Giant's creation. She is the frogmoth that took 16 years to metamorphose into the guise of Laura.



I hope that you will understand that this is why Sarah is addicted to Bloody Mary's ;-)


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Re: [spoilers] A theory on 8 and the 8.

Post by mtwentz »

Xavi wrote:"Laura is the one." Let's think about this a little while, because the words of the Log Lady were, and still are and always will be, very important. Laura's golden orb was being created immediately
after the nuclear disaster, literally above and out of the Giant's head. This orb also got all of Senorita Dido's love and blessings, before it started its journey to earth.

7 + 4 years later, in the dessert of White Sand (we are not going to talk about the ambiguity of "Running out of Sand", now are we?) a creepy creature crawls out of one of probable Mother's eggs. This frogmoth finds its way to that innocent (1956) girl, who just first kissed her "boyfriend." Okay, so her name is Sarah (Novak Palmer).

Now what if this frogmoth did not came out of one of Mother's eggs, albeit out of the transformed golden Laura orb, that was sent by the Giant and Senorita Dido, and it was sent to earth for a very specific reason. This reason is to prevent the procreation of Sarah and BOB, uhh, Leland. This means that Laura is not Sarah's child, yet she was born from her. Laura was, is and alway will be, the Giant's creation. She is the frogmoth that took 16 years to metamorphose into the guise of Laura.



I hope that you will understand that this is why Sarah is addicted to Bloody Mary's ;-)
The problem with this theory is that the Woodsman sent out the spell that made the girl/Sarah open her mouth that allowed the frog moth to enter. Therefore, it's only reasonable to assume the frogmoth hatched from the Mother's/Judy's egg.

My guess is that the Laura orb did not hit Planet Earth until the year Laura was born, but this is open to interpretation.
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Xavi
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Re: [spoilers] A theory on 8 and the 8.

Post by Xavi »

mtwentz wrote:
Xavi wrote:"Laura is the one." Let's think about this a little while, because the words of the Log Lady were, and still are and always will be, very important. Laura's golden orb was being created immediately
after the nuclear disaster, literally above and out of the Giant's head. This orb also got all of Senorita Dido's love and blessings, before it started its journey to earth.

7 + 4 years later, in the dessert of White Sand (we are not going to talk about the ambiguity of "Running out of Sand", now are we?) a creepy creature crawls out of one of probable Mother's eggs. This frogmoth finds its way to that innocent (1956) girl, who just first kissed her "boyfriend." Okay, so her name is Sarah (Novak Palmer).

Now what if this frogmoth did not came out of one of Mother's eggs, albeit out of the transformed golden Laura orb, that was sent by the Giant and Senorita Dido, and it was sent to earth for a very specific reason. This reason is to prevent the procreation of Sarah and BOB, uhh, Leland. This means that Laura is not Sarah's child, yet she was born from her. Laura was, is and alway will be, the Giant's creation. She is the frogmoth that took 16 years to metamorphose into the guise of Laura.



I hope that you will understand that this is why Sarah is addicted to Bloody Mary's ;-)
The problem with this theory is that the Woodsman sent out the spell that made the girl/Sarah open her mouth that allowed the frog moth to enter. Therefore, it's only reasonable to assume the frogmoth hatched from the Mother's/Judy's egg.

My guess is that the Laura orb did not hit Planet Earth until the year Laura was born, but this is open to interpretation.
You seem to forget that the Giant/Fireman/??????? sees/knows the future. IOW he knew before hand that this broadcasting by that Woodsman would open up the girl's mouth.
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Re: [spoilers] A theory on 8 and the 8.

Post by eyeboogers »

Rewatched 8 yesterday. Am I seeing things or does the Fireman's energy form a familiar pattern?
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Re: [spoilers] A theory on 8 and the 8.

Post by Deep Thought »

dupe
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Re: [spoilers] A theory on 8 and the 8.

Post by Deep Thought »

Deep Thought wrote:
eyeboogers wrote:Rewatched 8 yesterday. Am I seeing things or does the Fireman's energy form a familiar pattern?
I was teased a little on this site in the episode 8 thread for pointing out the motherly nature of the fireman, so I, at least, agree with your argument.

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Re: [spoilers] A theory on 8 and the 8.

Post by Xavi »

Deep Thought wrote:Mother
...jpg
"What is This? Kindergarten?"
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Re: [spoilers] A theory on 8 and the 8.

Post by zeronumber »

"One to tell the grandkids..."

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Re: [spoilers] A theory on 8 and the 8.

Post by Deep Thought »

Xavi wrote:
Deep Thought wrote:Mother
...jpg
"What is This? Kindergarten?"
That is a great point. Nursery school indeed!
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