Billy and Charlie

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Mr. Reindeer
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Re: Billy and Charlie

Postby Mr. Reindeer » Sat Jan 20, 2018 5:49 am

Voided wrote:Having just watched ‘The Art Life’, I noticed a Billy is mentioned in some of Lynch’s paintings...just as a Bob is. Of course, there is a Billy Side in Inland Empire. The particularly interesting thing is that there were both a character named Billy and a character named Red in ‘Wild At heart’ Originally......but the scenes were deleted.
I suppose what we can maybe derive from this is that Lynch has attachments to certain names that mean something symbolic or just sound right to him....and they pervade his visual work over the years.


Red in Wild at Heart wasn’t DKL’s invention; he came from the Barry Gifford novel the film was based on...and his full name in the novel was Inman “Red” Lynch! It’s not entirely impossible that Gifford named the character in tribute to DKL (the book and film were created fairly contemporaneously, with the film beginning production before the novel was published, I believe), but I tend to assume it was a coincidence.
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Voided
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Re: Billy and Charlie

Postby Voided » Sat Jan 20, 2018 10:58 am

Mr. Reindeer wrote:
Voided wrote:Having just watched ‘The Art Life’, I noticed a Billy is mentioned in some of Lynch’s paintings...just as a Bob is. Of course, there is a Billy Side in Inland Empire. The particularly interesting thing is that there were both a character named Billy and a character named Red in ‘Wild At heart’ Originally......but the scenes were deleted.
I suppose what we can maybe derive from this is that Lynch has attachments to certain names that mean something symbolic or just sound right to him....and they pervade his visual work over the years.


Red in Wild at Heart wasn’t DKL’s invention; he came from the Barry Gifford novel the film was based on...and his full name in the novel was Inman “Red” Lynch! It’s not entirely impossible that Gifford named the character in tribute to DKL (the book and film were created fairly contemporaneously, with the film beginning production before the novel was published, I believe), but I tend to assume it was a coincidence.


Okay, that’s interesting. I would still assume that the name Red was probably born out of this.
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Mr. Reindeer
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Re: Billy and Charlie

Postby Mr. Reindeer » Thu Jan 25, 2018 7:29 pm

eyeboogers wrote:
LateReg wrote:
eyeboogers wrote:
There are many things altered between the show and the blu ray edition, one of those things is that there is no longer a visual glitch when Todd dies.


I still notice the glitch and I honestly don't think anything has been changed. The dialogue you mention further down the page has always been what it is.


Disagree, and checked it with the streaming version on HBO Nordic, the detail shot of Todd's head blowing up has been shortened.


I just compared, and the Blu Ray looks identical to the version on Showtime streaming, as well as a Youtube video that was uploaded 4 months ago, of the scene in slo-mo. Perhaps HBO Nordic had a different cut?
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Re: Billy and Charlie

Postby LateReg » Thu Jan 25, 2018 8:26 pm

Mr. Reindeer wrote:
eyeboogers wrote:
LateReg wrote:
I still notice the glitch and I honestly don't think anything has been changed. The dialogue you mention further down the page has always been what it is.


Disagree, and checked it with the streaming version on HBO Nordic, the detail shot of Todd's head blowing up has been shortened.


I just compared, and the Blu Ray looks identical to the version on Showtime streaming, as well as a Youtube video that was uploaded 4 months ago, of the scene in slo-mo. Perhaps HBO Nordic had a different cut?


The likelihood of anything having been changed since this thing was locked is slim to none, I think.
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Re: Billy and Charlie

Postby Mr. Reindeer » Thu Jan 25, 2018 11:00 pm

LateReg wrote:
Mr. Reindeer wrote:
eyeboogers wrote:
Disagree, and checked it with the streaming version on HBO Nordic, the detail shot of Todd's head blowing up has been shortened.


I just compared, and the Blu Ray looks identical to the version on Showtime streaming, as well as a Youtube video that was uploaded 4 months ago, of the scene in slo-mo. Perhaps HBO Nordic had a different cut?


The likelihood of anything having been changed since this thing was locked is slim to none, I think.


I’m inclined to agree. Given how DKL emphasized in interviews that he insisted on locking the entire 18-hour edit before letting any of it air, and given his historical position of remaining married to the original “theatrical” cut for the rest of time, AND given that my Blu Ray seems identical to the Showtime streaming cut in all respects as far as I can tell, I really don’t think anything was changed, unless someone can provide side-by-side video proof.
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Re: Billy and Charlie

Postby eyeboogers » Fri Jan 26, 2018 11:16 am

Mr. Reindeer wrote:I’m inclined to agree. Given how DKL emphasized in interviews that he insisted on locking the entire 18-hour edit before letting any of it air, and given his historical position of remaining married to the original “theatrical” cut for the rest of time, AND given that my Blu Ray seems identical to the Showtime streaming cut in all respects as far as I can tell, I really don’t think anything was changed, unless someone can provide side-by-side video proof.


There is a long history of Lynch making changes for home video. F.ex. the dialogue becoming audible in The Pink Room on the first "Fire Walk With Me" DVD. The digital blurring of Laura Harring in "Mulholland Dr." etc. The streaming version of Todd's death has the actual head explosion in a non real time detail of the explosion, the Blu Ray just has it for a split second (and works much better).
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Re: Billy and Charlie

Postby LateReg » Fri Jan 26, 2018 12:12 pm

eyeboogers wrote:
Mr. Reindeer wrote:I’m inclined to agree. Given how DKL emphasized in interviews that he insisted on locking the entire 18-hour edit before letting any of it air, and given his historical position of remaining married to the original “theatrical” cut for the rest of time, AND given that my Blu Ray seems identical to the Showtime streaming cut in all respects as far as I can tell, I really don’t think anything was changed, unless someone can provide side-by-side video proof.


There is a long history of Lynch making changes for home video. F.ex. the dialogue becoming audible in The Pink Room on the first "Fire Walk With Me" DVD. The digital blurring of Laura Harring in "Mulholland Dr." etc. The streaming version of Todd's death has the actual head explosion in a non real time detail of the explosion, the Blu Ray just has it for a split second (and works much better).


I don't think Lynch changed that on Fire Walk. I thought someone else was responsible for the change? Am I wrong? Laura Harring was changed for practical reasons related to the actress. Regardless of these precedents, I don't see any changes on The Return.
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Re: Billy and Charlie

Postby eyeboogers » Fri Jan 26, 2018 12:18 pm

LateReg wrote:
eyeboogers wrote:
Mr. Reindeer wrote:I’m inclined to agree. Given how DKL emphasized in interviews that he insisted on locking the entire 18-hour edit before letting any of it air, and given his historical position of remaining married to the original “theatrical” cut for the rest of time, AND given that my Blu Ray seems identical to the Showtime streaming cut in all respects as far as I can tell, I really don’t think anything was changed, unless someone can provide side-by-side video proof.


There is a long history of Lynch making changes for home video. F.ex. the dialogue becoming audible in The Pink Room on the first "Fire Walk With Me" DVD. The digital blurring of Laura Harring in "Mulholland Dr." etc. The streaming version of Todd's death has the actual head explosion in a non real time detail of the explosion, the Blu Ray just has it for a split second (and works much better).


I don't think Lynch changed that on Fire Walk. I thought someone else was responsible for the change? Am I wrong? Laura Harring was changed for practical reasons related to the actress. Regardless of these precedents, I don't see any changes on The Return.


Lynch did the audio mix together with John Neff, both signed off on the final product.
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Mr. Reindeer
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Re: Billy and Charlie

Postby Mr. Reindeer » Sat Jan 27, 2018 9:56 am

eyeboogers wrote:
Mr. Reindeer wrote:I’m inclined to agree. Given how DKL emphasized in interviews that he insisted on locking the entire 18-hour edit before letting any of it air, and given his historical position of remaining married to the original “theatrical” cut for the rest of time, AND given that my Blu Ray seems identical to the Showtime streaming cut in all respects as far as I can tell, I really don’t think anything was changed, unless someone can provide side-by-side video proof.


There is a long history of Lynch making changes for home video. F.ex. the dialogue becoming audible in The Pink Room on the first "Fire Walk With Me" DVD. The digital blurring of Laura Harring in "Mulholland Dr." etc. The streaming version of Todd's death has the actual head explosion in a non real time detail of the explosion, the Blu Ray just has it for a split second (and works much better).


Haven’t people also said that in the theatrical cut of FWWM the screen cut to white when Desmond disappears, whereas in all home video it goes to black? I’ve always wondered if this was one of those “mass misremembering” type things a la the “Berenstein/Berenstain Bears” phenomenon, because it seems like it SHOULD go to white, so people remember it that way. But several people seem to agree. (Conversely, Criterion’s Eraserhead Blu Ray switched the white screen near the end to black accidentally, and had to issue replacement discs.)

I’m telling you, though, I don’t know what cut went out overseas, but the Todd shot hasn’t changed a frame in the US of A.
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Re: Billy and Charlie

Postby BGate » Sat Jan 27, 2018 6:28 pm

It hasn't. This is another in the long line of "Sonny Jim is blinking backwards!" things that people are imagining.
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Re: Billy and Charlie

Postby BGate » Sat Jan 27, 2018 6:32 pm

eyeboogers wrote:
Mr. Reindeer wrote:
eyeboogers wrote:There are many things altered between the show and the blu ray edition, one of those things is that there is no longer a visual glitch when Todd dies.



Hmm, that’s very “George Lucas” of DKL. I know he also removed some boom mikes and corrected other technical errors in the original show for the Blu Ray release, and darkened Laura Harring’s pubic area for the home video release of MD as a matter of propriety, but generally he has always been of the stated opinion that once the work is out in the world it’s finished (even when he finds the result unsatisfactory, as on Dune, he has owned the theatrical release as the “only director’s cut”). I guess this means the glitch was just bad CGI and not an eccentric DKL touch (as distinguished from the intentionally surreal/unrealistic CGI elsewhere). If you don’t mind saying, what other changes have you noticed?


I still haven't had time to go and compare the Blu Ray and stream side by side (not the whole thing, just the places that felt different to me). Some things I don't know whether have been changed or if I just remember them wrong. For instance in the scene where Mr.C kills Ray and is told about "The Flying Dutchman's" Mr.C says "I know where it is". However I remember it as "I know where it is...and I know when it is". Lots of things like that, i will try to make a list and check it twice :-)


He says, "I know what it is." And you're completely imagining the second half of that. And it's no different on the blu-ray.
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Re: Billy and Charlie

Postby Fashion Suicide » Tue Jan 30, 2018 9:55 am

Actually, there is some small “corrections”, at least on the European blu-ray which I understand is basically the same as the American, in one of the performances by The Cactus Blossoms and the Lissie performance of Wild Wild West. Before, the audio wasn’t synced properly with the video, and now it is. It bothered me a lot the first time I saw it on the day of the release. I thought it was very amateurish. But obviously someone, maybe Lynch himself, noticed and corrected it, so that’s one thing I’m happy about on the blu-ray.
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Re: Billy and Charlie

Postby LateReg » Tue Jan 30, 2018 10:29 am

BGate wrote:It hasn't. This is another in the long line of "Sonny Jim is blinking backwards!" things that people are imagining.


I'm pretty sure that he does blink backwards, though. It doesn't have to mean much other than contributing to things feeling off, but it really does seem like he's blinking backwards to me.
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Re: Billy and Charlie

Postby chromereflectsimage » Tue Jan 30, 2018 11:24 am

LateReg wrote:
BGate wrote:It hasn't. This is another in the long line of "Sonny Jim is blinking backwards!" things that people are imagining.


I'm pretty sure that he does blink backwards, though. It doesn't have to mean much other than contributing to things feeling off, but it really does seem like he's blinking backwards to me.


That scene with Sonny Jim also has the same music as the scene where Richard Horne runs over the little boy, and we all known Richard's connection the lodges...

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