Black Lodge/White Lodge mythology

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Cappy
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Re: Black Lodge/White Lodge mythology

Postby Cappy » Thu Jan 18, 2018 12:54 pm

For some reason I took the arm-doppelganger's cry of "non-existent" to be a statement on the status of Cooper. In the final episode of the original series, Cooper bargained his soul over to Windham Earle, then BOB disintegrated Earle. BOB and the Red Room confined Cooper's soul, but maybe Earle still had claim to Coop, meaning that he was in fact owned by no one...? Maybe that could account for the seemingly arbitrary 25 year sentence given to Coop, the fact that there is no clear keeper of his soul.

I guess a real world legalistic equivalent would be buying a stolen item from a thief, and then having the authorities try to re-possess the item from you. Inevitably a true owner could be determined in a court of law, but there might be a period of time where no one person has a defined legal ownership of the item in question. Coop's soul might have existed in a state of similar supernatural limbo.
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Re: Black Lodge/White Lodge mythology

Postby eyeboogers » Thu Jan 18, 2018 1:24 pm

BoB stated that Window Earle was in no position to ask for Cooper's soul. Right after we saw that such a thing needed to be extracted, which did not happen to Cooper.
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Cappy
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Re: Black Lodge/White Lodge mythology

Postby Cappy » Thu Jan 18, 2018 2:06 pm

I imagine that ultimately the Red Room is like any other organization -- they might have all these rules and codes, but they break them all the time. This might be evidenced by BOB trying to withhold garmonbozia from MIKE, and all the other (perceived) infighting amongst the spirits during the series.
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Re: Black Lodge/White Lodge mythology

Postby Mr. Reindeer » Thu Jan 18, 2018 5:25 pm

Robin Davies wrote:Well, that shadow version of the tree seemed fairly evil. It is only at the very end, when TEOTA starts talking about the story of the little girl who lived down the lane that things get murky. What is up with that story anyway.
If The Evolution of the Arm is evil, then what does that make its doppelganger? Surely that was even worse when it sent Cooper into "non-existence".[/quote]

My impression is that MfAP/the Arm exists outside conventional human morals. He’s neither inherently good nor evil, just worried about his own interests (although he has always seemed rather malevolent to me, almost a trickster character, with little Mike frequently giving his gleeful smile when humans are confused or in pain — especially noteworthy is the cut to him when Laura is being murdered in FWWM). The EotA does seem to be somewhat in league with Cooper in TP:TR (albeit not to the degree Mike/Gerard is), but I assume this is more because Cooper and he happen to share the same interest (perhaps capturing/stopping Judy?), not out of altruistic motives.

For me, the difference between the Arm and his doppel is that the doppel is frothing mad — see his deranged laughter in Episode 29. Whereas the “real” Arm is a calculating amoral trickster, the doppel is just a wildly destructive id.
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Xavi
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Re: Black Lodge/White Lodge mythology

Postby Xavi » Fri Jan 19, 2018 4:09 am

Robin Davies wrote:
eyeboogers wrote:
dkenny78 wrote: 27 years later, I still can't figure out if the MFAP is in league with BOB, opposed to him, or just neutral.


Well, that shadow version of the tree seemed fairly evil. It is only at the very end, when TEOTA starts talking about the story of the little girl who lived down the lane that things get murky. What is up with that story anyway.
If The Evolution of the Arm is evil, then what does that make its doppelganger? Surely that was even worse when it sent Cooper into "non-existence".


25 years "the good Cooper" lived between Red Curtains and among its denizens. The Arm evolved into a Tree and apparently Philip Gerard somehow managed to evolve into one of its denizens as well. I guess Gerard died and because he's an "incomplete" soul, he is stuck in the Waiting Room for eternity. His complementary self firstly was the Arm, but has now become The Evolution Of The Arm.

Meanwhile, BOB lives inside Mr C and via him he gets his Garmonbozia; human suffering and pain. The bond between BOB and Mr C seems so tight that BOB has no need to "travel" back and forth between the Waiting Room and his host, Mr C. There also seems to be a huge advantage for Mr C, for he becomes immortal while "carrying" BOB; also in collaboration with the Woodsmen of course. In a way it can be concluded that "evil" is a manifestation of joined forces.

At the very moment the good Coop was going to exit the Waiting Room, as he is observing Mr C in his car crossing the desert on a highway, suddenly the doppelgänger's Tree appeared, who sent him through the floor into non-existence. I can not refrain from thinking that both Mr C and BOB instigated the interference of this doppelgänger's Tree to preventing a direct exchange between the good Cooper and Mr C.
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Isis Unveiled
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Re: Black Lodge/White Lodge mythology

Postby Isis Unveiled » Fri Jan 19, 2018 4:13 am

The myth of the Lodges was taken by Mark Frost from a book called Psychic Defense, which was referencing the real world legend/folk tale of the Lodges as told by Helena Blavatsky in her 1888 quintessential apocrypha Isis Unveiled and once more in The Secret Doctrine.

The White Lodge is essentially another iteration of The Temple of Ascended Masters. However, The Black Lodge specifically (and also the concept of The Dweller on the Threshold) is thought to have originated from Native American folklore.

It's like I'm the only person on this forum that knows this. Wtf were the rest of you doing for the past 25 years?

Everybody thinks of Lynch when they think of Twin Peaks, when really a majority of the story and characters originated from Frost. All you need to do is read The List of Seven by Mark Frost, published quite hastily following the cancellation of the original show.
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Xavi
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Re: Black Lodge/White Lodge mythology

Postby Xavi » Fri Jan 19, 2018 4:33 am

Isis Unveiled wrote:The myth of the Lodges was taken by Mark Frost from a book called Psychic Defense....


I don't read books, I watch Twin Peaks !
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Re: Black Lodge/White Lodge mythology

Postby Saturn's child » Fri Jan 19, 2018 6:27 am

Isis Unveiled wrote:It's like I'm the only person on this forum that knows this.


Not the only person, though maybe the loudest. I think Frost borrowed several elements from theosophical works -- in particular Blavatsky's -- but I never got the feeling I was watching a thinly cloaked 'Isis Unveiled' while watching Peaks (I wouldn't consider that text apocrypha either).
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Re: Black Lodge/White Lodge mythology

Postby Isis Unveiled » Fri Jan 19, 2018 7:39 am

Saturn's child wrote:
Isis Unveiled wrote:It's like I'm the only person on this forum that knows this.


Not the only person, though maybe the loudest. I think Frost borrowed several elements from theosophical works -- in particular Blavatsky's -- but I never got the feeling I was watching a thinly cloaked 'Isis Unveiled' while watching Peaks (I wouldn't consider that text apocrypha either).


It most certainly is apocrypha. Apocrypha is Greek for 'hidden information.' Occult is latin for 'hidden.'

I wouldn't go so far as to say that TP is a thinly cloaked Isis Unveiled, however, most of the logic behind the occult/magic/supernatural forces in TP is defined by Blavatsky in Isis Unveiled vol 1 (Science). Particularly, her description of electricity as a life force and a conduit for spiritual machination offers a framework for how electricity is used by the woodsmen in the convenience store, and also establishes a connection to an existing ideology in popular culture.
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Mr. Reindeer
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Re: Black Lodge/White Lodge mythology

Postby Mr. Reindeer » Fri Jan 19, 2018 8:44 am

Isis Unveiled wrote:I wouldn't go so far as to say that TP is a thinly cloaked Isis Unveiled, however, most of the logic behind the occult/magic/supernatural forces in TP is defined by Blavatsky in Isis Unveiled vol 1 (Science). Particularly, her description of electricity as a life force and a conduit for spiritual machination offers a framework for how electricity is used by the woodsmen in the convenience store, and also establishes a connection to an existing ideology in popular culture.


The electricity thing is fascinating. I believe you and I have discussed this before...but the “electricity as a life force and a conduit for spiritual machination” arises primarily from FWWM (and to a lesser extent the European Pilot “closed ending”), both of which were created with very minimal input from Frost by most accounts. There is little to no reference to electricity-as-spitirual-conduit anywhere else in the original show. And DKL had been fascinated with this very theme in earnest since Eraserhead (e.g., surging electricity when Henry kills the baby) and as a major theme since his second script, Ronnie Rocket. So I tend to attribute those elements to him, personally. Which is not to say that Mark didn’t make the connection to Blavatsky and enthusiastically latch onto those elements (as he did with the ring) in TP:TR and particularly TSHoTP. But, for me, all the evidence points to DKL being the initial party responsible for the “electricity” motif/theme.
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Re: Black Lodge/White Lodge mythology

Postby eyeboogers » Fri Jan 19, 2018 12:25 pm

Or, the two gentleman (with possible assistance from Peyton and Engels) had sketched out some kind of workable mythology while making the show. The unused work then snuck its way into "Fire Walk With Me".
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Re: Black Lodge/White Lodge mythology

Postby Isis Unveiled » Fri Jan 19, 2018 12:30 pm

Mr. Reindeer wrote:
Isis Unveiled wrote:I wouldn't go so far as to say that TP is a thinly cloaked Isis Unveiled, however, most of the logic behind the occult/magic/supernatural forces in TP is defined by Blavatsky in Isis Unveiled vol 1 (Science). Particularly, her description of electricity as a life force and a conduit for spiritual machination offers a framework for how electricity is used by the woodsmen in the convenience store, and also establishes a connection to an existing ideology in popular culture.


The electricity thing is fascinating. I believe you and I have discussed this before...but the “electricity as a life force and a conduit for spiritual machination” arises primarily from FWWM (and to a lesser extent the European Pilot “closed ending”), both of which were created with very minimal input from Frost by most accounts. There is little to no reference to electricity-as-spitirual-conduit anywhere else in the original show. And DKL had been fascinated with this very theme in earnest since Eraserhead (e.g., surging electricity when Henry kills the baby) and as a major theme since his second script, Ronnie Rocket. So I tend to attribute those elements to him, personally. Which is not to say that Mark didn’t make the connection to Blavatsky and enthusiastically latch onto those elements (as he did with the ring) in TP:TR and particularly TSHoTP. But, for me, all the evidence points to DKL being the initial party responsible for the “electricity” motif/theme.


You are absolutely spot on with your observation that Lynch has since long before TP had an obvious fascination with electricity, so much so that he's used this theme in virtually every one of his films beginning with his first feature Eraserhead.

So this is actually one of those times where the convergence of Frost/Lynch was a match made In Heaven. Yes, Lynch was more than qualified to visually convey electricity in such a stylized way as to highlight its significance to the plot. The difference between TP and all of Lynch's other works where he's used electricity as a plot device is....... in TP, Lynch's obsession with electricity is relevant to the plot and is supported by Frost's decision to borrow from Blavatsky. In Eraserhead, the electricity theme was more or less subliminally incorporated as a plot device where as in Twin Peaks it's portrayed directly as a spirit's preferred method of operation via the use of magic.

Essentially, what you are saying is correct, and what I am saying is correct. In fact, what you are saying tends to corroborate what I am saying and so on... =)

I'm just going to have to photograph a few pages of my copy of Isis Unveiled and upload them here for you all to have your 'Ah Hah!' moment of epiphany.
"I have the fury of my own momentum." - BOB
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Xavi
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Re: Black Lodge/White Lodge mythology

Postby Xavi » Mon Jan 22, 2018 3:18 am

I noticed that Reindeer keeps entertaining the disappointed, meanwhile the promise of an "epiphany" seems already forgotten.
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Xavi
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Re: Black Lodge/White Lodge mythology

Postby Xavi » Mon Jan 22, 2018 4:38 am

When Cooper and MIKE meet Phillip Jeffries and Phillip "permits" Cooper to continue his voyage into the past, MIKE says the magic word "E-lec-tri-ci-ty." Now, why would he (have to) do that? At the very moment Cooper looked like this.

Image
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Re: Black Lodge/White Lodge mythology

Postby Isis Unveiled » Mon Jan 22, 2018 7:03 am

Xavi wrote:I noticed that Reindeer keeps entertaining the disappointed, meanwhile the promise of an "epiphany" seems already forgotten.


Tell me where I can upload image files here in my user profile and I'll post some epiphanies for you lazy bastards.
"I have the fury of my own momentum." - BOB

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