Black Lodge/White Lodge mythology

Moderators: Annie, BookhouseBoyBob, Ross, Jerry Horne, Brad D

User avatar
Mr. Strawberry
Posts: 204
Joined: Thu Jun 08, 2017 10:17 pm
Location: Nevada City, CA
Contact:

Re: Black Lodge/White Lodge mythology

Postby Mr. Strawberry » Mon Jan 22, 2018 11:51 am

Isis Unveiled wrote:
Xavi wrote:I noticed that Reindeer keeps entertaining the disappointed, meanwhile the promise of an "epiphany" seems already forgotten.


Tell me where I can upload image files here in my user profile and I'll post some epiphanies for you lazy bastards.

These haughty comments are not going to encourage any sort of discussion. Xavi and Isis Unveiled, perhaps you should start a Woke Thread where you can liberate yourselves from the lazy and unaware?

Seriously though, some of us are taking our sweet time processing this and reaching our own conclusions. Be patient. I've been writing down my thoughts and feelings and insights for months without posting any of it, but there will come a day that I am ready to share. Some of us need 25 years to make a move, so all in due time!
Not taking any calls.
User avatar
Isis Unveiled
Posts: 41
Joined: Tue Jun 20, 2017 1:42 am
Location: Black Lodge

Re: Black Lodge/White Lodge mythology

Postby Isis Unveiled » Mon Jan 22, 2018 1:28 pm

Mr. Strawberry wrote:Xavi and Isis Unveiled, perhaps you should start a Woke Thread where you can liberate yourselves from the lazy and unaware?


You know, I was just starting to think that my case to be made really deserves a thread of its own.

I've answered the OP's question about the origin of the lodges. Instead if derailing this thread, I can take the electricity debate and incorporate it into my thread.

And now you guys can continue taking your sweet time.
"I have the fury of my own momentum." - BOB
User avatar
Mr. Reindeer
Posts: 2134
Joined: Mon Jan 26, 2015 4:09 pm

Re: Black Lodge/White Lodge mythology

Postby Mr. Reindeer » Tue Jan 23, 2018 10:03 pm

Isis Unveiled wrote:
Mr. Strawberry wrote:Xavi and Isis Unveiled, perhaps you should start a Woke Thread where you can liberate yourselves from the lazy and unaware?


You know, I was just starting to think that my case to be made really deserves a thread of its own.

I've answered the OP's question about the origin of the lodges. Instead if derailing this thread, I can take the electricity debate and incorporate it into my thread.

And now you guys can continue taking your sweet time.


There is not a doubt in my mind that Mark is enormously interested in exploring these topics, and that they are indelibly woven into the fabric of the TP universe. The occult arcana just doesn’t do much for me on its own — a matter of personal preference — but I can appreciate it within the larger colorful quilt of the TP universe. Part of what makes it so interesting is that Mark is on record as being a complete skeptic, yet for some reason he can’t stop thinking about, researching and writing about these topics. But there are lots of reasons to love the world of TP without having any interest in Theosophy — mood, character, artistry, visceral emotion — and I don’t think those who take a pass on the pseuso-intellectual esoteric elements are inherently lazy or simple.

That said, I stumbled today (through the TP wiki) upon the writings of Kenneth Grant, who evidently was the first to inject extraterrestrials into Thelema, and also postulated that only the Self truly exists, with the rest of reality being an illusory projection (if Grant literally means that this is true for every person, then each of our existences is essentially a universe intersecting with other parallel universes!). He also proposed the “mauve zone,” the realm of true self, embodied as a swamp and accessible only in deep sleep. All of this sounds uncannily relevant to the themes of TP:TR. Are you familiar with Grant, IU? How does he factor into your equation? His work does admittedly sound like a potential game-changer in terms of understanding what is going on it S3, particularly in Cooper, Audrey and Diane’s storylines.
User avatar
Isis Unveiled
Posts: 41
Joined: Tue Jun 20, 2017 1:42 am
Location: Black Lodge

Re: Black Lodge/White Lodge mythology

Postby Isis Unveiled » Tue Jan 23, 2018 11:17 pm

Grant undoubtedly is a heavyweight in the field of the Occult, particularly when it comes to Crowley's OTO.

But the reality is that Crowley himself was the first person to inject his Thelema into UFOlogy with his depiction of LAM.

https://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/cienciareal/cienciareal08.htm

Image

This was expanded upon by Crowley's student Jack Parsons (head of Crowley's OTO in Los Angeles), who (with the help of L Ron Hubbard) attempted to birth a moon child (using sex magick) as per Crowley's recipe:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Babalon_Working
http://www.conspiracyarchive.com/UFOs/UFO_Ritual_Magic.htm

A noted disciple of Crowley's, Jack Parsons — one time head of the California branch of the O.T.O., and renowned rocket scientist — carried on this tradition of interdimensional contact when, in 1946 — with the aid of "Frater H." — he made contact with some sort of entities not at all unlike Crowley's "Lam". This all took place during a series of magic rituals deemed the Babalon Workings. What makes this story all the more bizarre is that Parson's accomplice in this endeavor — the aforementioned Frater H. — became more commonly known afterwards as the charismatic cult leader L.Ron Hubbard, the founder of Scientology.

Apparently, Hubbard played a role similar to that of Edward Kelly, "scryer" for the aforementioned Dr. John Dee, of whom Crowley was an ardent admirer. A scryer works as a receptor of otherworldly communications, often using a crystal ball or similar device in conjunction with the magician's rituals and ceremonies to summon beings from other dimensions. Together magician and scryer work hand-in-hand in summoning these otherworldly beings: be they angels, demons or spirits of the dead. Crowley's Scarlet Woman, in many instances, performed this same function; for instance Crowley's first wife, Rose Kelly — while in a magical trance — received the first three chapters of the infamous Book of the Law, the manuscript that laid the foundation for Crowley's "religion", Thelema. Furthermore, the portal of entry for the extraterrestrial beings that Crowley theoretically opened (when he invoked the entity "Lam") may have been further enlarged by Parsons and Hubbard with the commencement of the Babalon Working, thus facilitating a monumental paradigm shift in human consciousness. As Kenneth Grant wrote, "The [Babalon] Working began... just prior to the wave of unexplained ariel phenomena now recalled as the 'Great Flying Saucer Flap!' Parsons opened a door and something flew in." Such researchers as John Carter suggest that the detonation of atomic bombs over Japan — during the latter part of World War II — may have also played a part in opening this door between dimensions or, at least, attracted the curiosity of our intergalactic neighbors.

As Thelemic history instructs, 1947 ended the first stage of the Babalon Working, as Parsons and Hubbard parted ways amid a cloud of turmoil.(Apparently, Hubbard split with Parsons wife and a large part of his fortune.) It was the same year the Modern Age of UFOs flew into view with the Kenneth Arnold sightings over Mt. Rainer in Washington state, followed not long after by the legendary saucer crash in Roswell, New Mexico.


And as you probably already know, Frost incorporated the Parsons/Hubbard Babalon Working into TSHoTP.

Frost has successfully eluded answering questions about the Occult with any detail. I believe what he said recently on Reddit, that he's more of a skeptic by nature and that he is more of a visitor than a resident with regards to Occult literature. I believe he said that the Occult is always teetering on the edge of crackpot? Sounds like Frost.
"I have the fury of my own momentum." - BOB
User avatar
Isis Unveiled
Posts: 41
Joined: Tue Jun 20, 2017 1:42 am
Location: Black Lodge

Re: Black Lodge/White Lodge mythology

Postby Isis Unveiled » Tue Jan 23, 2018 11:53 pm

Here's a good primer for electricity & magnetism by Blavatsky in Isis Unveiled (Vol 1: Science):

Image

The psychic and ectenic forces, "the ideo-motor" and "electro-biological powers;" "latent thought" and even "unconscious cerebration" theories, can be condensed in two words : the kabalistic ASTRAL LIGHT.


and then on down...

If you consider that there is in a human head some sort of spirit, then you are obliged to concede the same to stone. If your [sic] dead and utterly passive matter can manifest a tendency toward gravitation, or, like electricity, attract and repel, and send out sparks-then, as well as the brain, it can also think. In short, evert particle of the so-called spirit, we can replace with an equivalent of matter, and every particle of matter replace with spirit.


And end page 58:

These view corroborate what we have expressed about the various names given to the same thing. The disputants are battling about mere words. Call the phenomena force, energy, electricity or magnetism, will, or spirit-power, it will ever be the partial manifestation of the soul,


I'll cite some more pages and give a more elaborate explanation in the thread I intend to eventually create.
"I have the fury of my own momentum." - BOB
User avatar
Xavi
Posts: 233
Joined: Thu Jan 12, 2017 5:23 am

Re: Black Lodge/White Lodge mythology

Postby Xavi » Wed Jan 24, 2018 3:46 am

Now, where is the "epiphany?"

It doesn't change a single bit if "we" know that Frost reads occult books. It does not provide any better understanding of the story Lynch/Frost depicted in TP, does it? For instance, what tells the book about a normal human being becoming an "entity of the otherworldly," i.c. why and how did Philip Gerard become a citizen of the Waiting Room? And, why did Cooper need Gerard/MIKE's assistance in the form of his life-spark-electricity instigation? What about the specific coordinates and defining portals. Isn't each text association a possible connection to the abstract? Umberto Eco once said that if you start associating from something as trivial as a green-bean it'd end up with explaining the whole wide universe.



In short, I do not need books to develop a thorough understanding of TP's unique mythology. The 18 hour movie tells everything. But thanks for sharing your "expertise" anyway. Can we now talk about what's in the movie?
User avatar
Mr. Reindeer
Posts: 2134
Joined: Mon Jan 26, 2015 4:09 pm

Re: Black Lodge/White Lodge mythology

Postby Mr. Reindeer » Wed Jan 24, 2018 6:16 am

I look forward to your thread, Isis Unveiled, but I still find myself more interested in Grant from the little I’ve read — partly because the pseudo-philosophical tint of his approach to questions of “self” sounds more up my alley, and partly because his incorporation of Hindu philosophy brings these ideas much more into the realm of DKL’s interests, and particularly the fascination in TP:TR with the ambiguous relationship between dreams and “reality,” internal and external life. The “mauve zone” feels like a specific reference (I wish I could read the script to see how that world was described by L/F), and the fact that it seems to exist as both a “real” general-purpose spirit dwelling in Part 8 and as a personal dreamscape on the edge of Dale’s consciousness (as apparently described by Grant — and giving an interesting slant to Diane’s faceless inprisonment and the presence of not-Ronette) in Part 3 is consistent with the malleable nature of reality in TP:TR. It feels to me that, as with “electricity,” this might have been a key meeting-point between Lynch and Frost in finding a way to meld their respective fascinations.
User avatar
Mr. Strawberry
Posts: 204
Joined: Thu Jun 08, 2017 10:17 pm
Location: Nevada City, CA
Contact:

Re: Black Lodge/White Lodge mythology

Postby Mr. Strawberry » Wed Jan 24, 2018 1:34 pm

The story may depict everything that we need to work with, but we must still relate it with our own experience.

If I showed Twin Peaks to my three and a half year old son, for example, he would be extremely disoriented, because it is not a matter of simple cause and effect / action and reaction like so many stories are. It deals with metaphysical, spiritual, and transcendental issues that span multiple realities such as the waking world, the dreaming world, and alternate or parallel universes.

With that said, Twin Peaks is a two-way road when it comes to interpretation. In one sense, it says, "Hey, in this mysterious life we lead, there's more than meets the eye. Think on it, dream on it, see what you can find". That's the stuff that originates in the minds of the creators before traveling to us via one lane of this road. Inevitably our perspective is grown and shifted.

The other lane delivers concepts and feelings and beliefs that originate in our own mind, being derived from our own life and dreams, and projects them onto elements of the narrative. We basically take what we've experienced and we "check it" against the things we witness, attempting to connect our own truths with those professed by others.

This lends an interactive dynamic to the experience, creating a sort of "send and receive" game in the mind and soul -- an enthralling ebb and flow that persists long after the story has been told.

While a great depth of knowledge regarding dark arts and occultism surely cannot hurt when seeking the keys to comprehension, it is our own personal exploration of "the unseen" that is the key to an individual understanding of what's transpired.

Another's truth is just that -- the sum of a single person's unique experiences, dreams, thoughts and actions. It would not be advisable to rely solely on the perceived authority of another in order to conflate the intangible or multi-layered aspects of things we do not fully comprehend. Doing so would be like attempting to decipher one's dreams by way of a stranger's interpretation. Dreams are too personal to be fully understood by anyone other than the dreamer, therefore we must take the words of others as a starting point or guide that grants us one more approach to the truth.

Regardless of what is really going on here, I believe that these possibilities alone say something profound about the nature of the story we have been told. In fact one might see this as proof that its underlying themes and implications are an actual conveyance of lesser appreciated aspects of reality. Beyond the powerful and visceral impact that is imparted at first blush, analysis and dissection in the heart and mind only serves to further illustrate the existence of deep and far reaching truths conveyed throughout the journey. Otherwise, these things wouldn't continually resurface to entertain our curiosity.

This is where discussing these matters becomes somewhat difficult for me. I have experience with some of the things depicted in the story, but find that openly sharing such personal matters with strangers does not come easily. However, no shared understanding can materialize between myself and those with similar experiences if nothing is spoken aloud. This is a problem separate from interpreting the story at hand, of course, yet it still presents a personal barrier to conclusion.


Note: Someone just walked by wearing a "Who Killed Laura Palmer?" shirt while I was writing this.
Not taking any calls.
LateReg
Posts: 719
Joined: Sun May 10, 2015 5:19 pm

Re: Black Lodge/White Lodge mythology

Postby LateReg » Thu Jan 25, 2018 2:32 pm

Very interesting stuff regarding electricity and Mr. Reindeer's discovery of Grant.

Two things about other things.

First, going back to some of the conversations on the first page of this thread and all over the place throughout The Return, I think that the One-Armed Man has always been interested in garmonbozia and preventing Bob from stealing it. So I do think that his role in The Return is consistent in that regard, as he would want to stop Bob. That alone is why he's helping Cooper (guiding him to the pie, for example).

Second, we were talking about Mr. C's line during the prison interview regarding Phillip Jeffries. Something along the lines of "I sent messages to let Phillip know it's safe." What if Mr. C isn't saying something like "it's safe to come out of hiding" but rather that "IT" is safe. "IT" as in an object or thing. If so, he could be referring to Bob, since, according to Ray, that could be "what this is all about." I dunno. Just a thought.
User avatar
TheAlien
Posts: 115
Joined: Sat Jan 28, 2017 4:01 pm

Re: Black Lodge/White Lodge mythology

Postby TheAlien » Sat Feb 03, 2018 4:20 pm

..
Last edited by TheAlien on Wed Jun 27, 2018 3:22 am, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
chromereflectsimage
Posts: 245
Joined: Mon Jun 13, 2016 4:03 am

Re: Black Lodge/White Lodge mythology

Postby chromereflectsimage » Sun Feb 04, 2018 12:22 pm

Mr. Reindeer wrote:
That said, I stumbled today (through the TP wiki) upon the writings of Kenneth Grant, who evidently was the first to inject extraterrestrials into Thelema, and also postulated that only the Self truly exists, with the rest of reality being an illusory projection (if Grant literally means that this is true for every person, then each of our existences is essentially a universe intersecting with other parallel universes!). He also proposed the “mauve zone,” the realm of true self, embodied as a swamp and accessible only in deep sleep. All of this sounds uncannily relevant to the themes of TP:TR. Are you familiar with Grant, IU? How does he factor into your equation? His work does admittedly sound like a potential game-changer in terms of understanding what is going on it S3, particularly in Cooper, Audrey and Diane’s storylines.


This makes sense to me. It's very true to Hindu beliefs that Brahman/Atman aka the unified consciousness or the 'Self' is the only true thing, everything else an illusion. We reincarnate because we are too attached to the idea of the physical world being reality. There's a metaphor used of the Cinema screen. The enlightened recognize it's just a screen, even they do see the pictures they recognize it's an illusion. where as the ignorant fall in love with the pictures and get caught up in the idea of that being reality.

I still wonder if the Two Birds reference has anything to do with the Hindu parable of the Tree of Jiva and Atman, two birds sit on a tree, two parts of the soul, the ego and the self.
LateReg
Posts: 719
Joined: Sun May 10, 2015 5:19 pm

Re: Black Lodge/White Lodge mythology

Postby LateReg » Sun Feb 04, 2018 5:13 pm

chromereflectsimage wrote:
Mr. Reindeer wrote:
That said, I stumbled today (through the TP wiki) upon the writings of Kenneth Grant, who evidently was the first to inject extraterrestrials into Thelema, and also postulated that only the Self truly exists, with the rest of reality being an illusory projection (if Grant literally means that this is true for every person, then each of our existences is essentially a universe intersecting with other parallel universes!). He also proposed the “mauve zone,” the realm of true self, embodied as a swamp and accessible only in deep sleep. All of this sounds uncannily relevant to the themes of TP:TR. Are you familiar with Grant, IU? How does he factor into your equation? His work does admittedly sound like a potential game-changer in terms of understanding what is going on it S3, particularly in Cooper, Audrey and Diane’s storylines.


This makes sense to me. It's very true to Hindu beliefs that Brahman/Atman aka the unified consciousness or the 'Self' is the only true thing, everything else an illusion. We reincarnate because we are too attached to the idea of the physical world being reality. There's a metaphor used of the Cinema screen. The enlightened recognize it's just a screen, even they do see the pictures they recognize it's an illusion. where as the ignorant fall in love with the pictures and get caught up in the idea of that being reality.

I still wonder if the Two Birds reference has anything to do with the Hindu parable of the Tree of Jiva and Atman, two birds sit on a tree, two parts of the soul, the ego and the self.


That quote from Reindeer and what you said is very near and dear to my interpretation at times throughout the show's airing. I posted a few times that it seemed like we were witnessing multiple subjective projections of reality intersecting. For example, when Big Ed closes his eyes in the diner the situation changes from despair to pure bliss, and, deep in thought, finding peace, he looks as though he's willing Norma's actions into existence.
User avatar
chromereflectsimage
Posts: 245
Joined: Mon Jun 13, 2016 4:03 am

Re: Black Lodge/White Lodge mythology

Postby chromereflectsimage » Sun Feb 04, 2018 5:36 pm

Xavi wrote:Now, where is the "epiphany?"

It doesn't change a single bit if "we" know that Frost reads occult books. It does not provide any better understanding of the story Lynch/Frost depicted in TP, does it? For instance, what tells the book about a normal human being becoming an "entity of the otherworldly," i.c. why and how did Philip Gerard become a citizen of the Waiting Room? And, why did Cooper need Gerard/MIKE's assistance in the form of his life-spark-electricity instigation? What about the specific coordinates and defining portals. Isn't each text association a possible connection to the abstract? Umberto Eco once said that if you start associating from something as trivial as a green-bean it'd end up with explaining the whole wide universe.



In short, I do not need books to develop a thorough understanding of TP's unique mythology. The 18 hour movie tells everything. But thanks for sharing your "expertise" anyway. Can we now talk about what's in the movie?

Cooper describes Mike to like a seer or Shaman Priest in the original show. This is why I think he's a figure showing Cooper around in the red room and such in the return.
User avatar
Mr. Reindeer
Posts: 2134
Joined: Mon Jan 26, 2015 4:09 pm

Re: Black Lodge/White Lodge mythology

Postby Mr. Reindeer » Mon Sep 24, 2018 8:55 am

Of potential interest to those who are into the Theosophy elements of the show: traditionally, Mark is most associated with those elements of TP, and I’ve been vocally skeptical that Lynch has any interest in them. However, in the category of eating my hat (or at least a small piece of it), Lynch references Blavatsky on the audiobook version of Room to Dream (specifically, he notes that she had a word for the smallest possible amount of time). He also amusingly has difficulty pronouncing “Theosophy,” and then gives up, so I still get the sense that he is very much a tourist in this stuff. But it seems he has at least some experience/knowledge of the texts.
User avatar
Mr. Strawberry
Posts: 204
Joined: Thu Jun 08, 2017 10:17 pm
Location: Nevada City, CA
Contact:

Re: Black Lodge/White Lodge mythology

Postby Mr. Strawberry » Mon Sep 24, 2018 11:29 am

Mr. Reindeer wrote:Of potential interest to those who are into the Theosophy elements of the show: traditionally, Mark is most associated with those elements of TP, and I’ve been vocally skeptical that Lynch has any interest in them. However, in the category of eating my hat (or at least a small piece of it), Lynch references Blavatsky on the audiobook version of Room to Dream (specifically, he notes that she had a word for the smallest possible amount of time). He also amusingly has difficulty pronouncing “Theosophy,” and then gives up, so I still get the sense that he is very much a tourist in this stuff. But it seems he has at least some experience/knowledge of the texts.

This reminds me of the other day when a friend was discussing some "out there" stuff with me at my desk at work, and we got on the subject of cloning and the like, and whether or not clones would have souls. I asked him, "Have you ever heard of the Philosopher's Stone?" and when he said that he hadn't, I tried to tell him how "such a thing could supposedly allow one to create a homuluc... a homunulc... uh, homun.. oh damn it, whatever, it lets you make a Dougie."
Not taking any calls.

Return to “Season 3 (2017) The Return (Spoilers)”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 18 guests