Most impenetrable scenes

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claaa7
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Most impenetrable scenes

Post by claaa7 »

As much as I love Twin Peaks: The Return there certainly are some scenes that to me seem to be downright impenetrable and that i haven't even seen close to a "reasonable explanation" for, Mister C's weird technique gadgets aside, stuff like Major Briggs and The Giant's plan / Mister C's quest, the Odessa storyline and Joudy storyline I don't see as impenetrable at all. they have all given room for some very sound discussion and some very thought provoking discussion. I'd say they can be broken down to reasonably well plotted storylines just that they require you to do a lot of the heavy lifting. I think i would place the Audrey scenes in this category as well as it's clearly a complete narrative arc, and needs to be watched in the exact order they were broadcast (so ep. 13 right after ep. 11 doesn't work in this context). i see Audrey's complete arc here as a pretty damn typical David Lynch films about a character who is lost within that tangled web we weave and eventually reaches spiritual enlightenment - (exemplified here by her dance where right after that her demons has no hold over her, anymore).

but what about the following scenes:

Mister C's phone call with Warden Murphy listening, what the hell happened, how the hell happened and why. Who was he calling? And what's with the "Cow jumped over the moon"

The calls to that cylinder in Buenos Aires, and later it turning into a silver blob (alchemy?). Do you take it that Cooper's call in the scene mentioned above is to that black box. A message to destroy it?

The evolution of the Arm appearing in the middle of the street during the fike with fight, protecting Cooper and trying to save his life. to me these type of scenes (and also inclusing his diskussioncs with MIKE / Gerard in ep. 16, and his visions of the Red Room leading him to became rich, etc. doesnt really jive with how you could interact with these beigns before. from my previous understnading you cant just suddenly see the Red Room juxaposed with your living room and directly take physical objects from it. this to me is the closest confirmation that "Dougie" might still be trapped in the "lodge" throughout, until 17/18.


there's more, but what are your thoughts on these scenes, what purpose do they show and what other scenes do you find impenetrable for good or worse?
IcedOver
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Re: Most impenetrable scenes

Post by IcedOver »

To me the jail phone call, like the arm wrestling and his resurrection, was just to demonstrate that Mr. C has some supernatural abilities and connections that are vast and unknowable. It doesn't necessarily need to have an "explanation", although further elucidation of this very important character could have enriched the show; its absence significantly hurts it. As it is, it's so much buildup with him and no payoff (same as that unlit cigarette, so that may have been the point . . . or just bad storytelling).

I guess we all have to decide within ourselves whether certain scenes were intentionally mysterious and impenetrable in order to prove a thematic point or add to a mood, or just the result of sloppiness. Depending on one's own mood at any given time, a case could be made for either.
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claaa7
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Re: Most impenetrable scenes

Post by claaa7 »

IcedOver wrote:To me the jail phone call, like the arm wrestling and his resurrection, was just to demonstrate that Mr. C has some supernatural abilities and connections that are vast and unknowable. It doesn't necessarily need to have an "explanation", although further elucidation of this very important character could have enriched the show; its absence significantly hurts it. As it is, it's so much buildup with him and no payoff (same as that unlit cigarette, so that may have been the point . . . or just bad storytelling).

I guess we all have to decide within ourselves whether certain scenes were intentionally mysterious and impenetrable in order to prove a thematic point or add to a mood, or just the result of sloppiness. Depending on one's own mood at any given time, a case could be made for either.

well i actually think there is a reallt great pay off... Frost wrote 50% of this script and he is very interested in the Jungian theorie that we all have a Shadow self that we need to embrace and face bceause that is eomthing that is just as important to us as a whole than the face we put on outwardss towards other people. but it's a balance act... we are neither selfsish, mannipulative, etc. first and foremost but the loving part of our personalities that are our social faces is also a strong part of our personalities, the strongest. its not just a mask that perhaps Goffman, who was the leading man behind htis thoery. I can strongly recommend his book - "The presentation of Self in Everyday life".
claaa7
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Re: Most impenetrable scenes

Post by claaa7 »

claaa7 wrote:
IcedOver wrote:To me the jail phone call, like the arm wrestling and his resurrection, was just to demonstrate that Mr. C has some supernatural abilities and connections that are vast and unknowable. It doesn't necessarily need to have an "explanation", although further elucidation of this very important character could have enriched the show; its absence significantly hurts it. As it is, it's so much buildup with him and no payoff (same as that unlit cigarette, so that may have been the point . . . or just bad storytelling).

I guess we all have to decide within ourselves whether certain scenes were intentionally mysterious and impenetrable in order to prove a thematic point or add to a mood, or just the result of sloppiness. Depending on one's own mood at any given time, a case could be made for either.

well i actually think there is a reallt great pay off... Frost wrote 50% of this script and he is very interested in the Jungian theorie that we all have a Shadow self that we need to embrace and face bceause that is eomthing that is just as important to us as a whole than the face we put on outwardss towards other people. but it's a balance act... we are neither selfsish, mannipulative, etc. first and foremost but the loving part of our personalities that are our social faces is also a strong part of our personalities, the strongest. its not just a mask that perhaps Goffman, who was the leading man behind htis thoery. I can strongly recommend his book - "The presentation of Self in Everyday life".
EDIT - you probably have a point here, bc all the scenes with Mr. C is filled with that DARK; violent humour that Lynch has been fascinated with since he started writing really... the main scene i felt was gratuitous and that i often feel the need to look away from is Ike the Spike's attack on Lorraine, and then on this middle agged sweet assisstant of her that also is brutallty murder althout of frame but we hear the songs. i think a man would have been suited beter for that scene
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eyeboogers
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Re: Most impenetrable scenes

Post by eyeboogers »

claaa7 wrote: The evolution of the Arm appearing in the middle of the street during the fike with fight, protecting Cooper and trying to save his life. to me these type of scenes (and also inclusing his diskussioncs with MIKE / Gerard in ep. 16, and his visions of the Red Room leading him to became rich, etc. doesnt really jive with how you could interact with these beigns before. from my previous understnading you cant just suddenly see the Red Room juxaposed with your living room and directly take physical objects from it. this to me is the closest confirmation that "Dougie" might still be trapped in the "lodge" throughout, until 17/18.
I'll get started on this one. These kinds of things were happening on the old show all the time (or since the start of season 2 at least). The Giant appearing in Cooper's hotel room, taking his ring - and later returning it. BoB letting himself be seen by Maddy in the rug at the Palmer residence. In the current season we see MIKE working his butt off as a shaman feeling out the space to find those openings - and the strenght to keep them open just long enough for what needs to be done. In TPTR ep.16 we see how unstable the connection is. Whether Philip Jeffries is using this technique to appear in Philadelphia in FWWM, or rather that he found "a place" and used it to travel is up for debate. Notice though how suddenly he dissapeared, and the state he was in when he reappeared in Buenos Aires. To me Lynch/Frost explain enough here for me to buy it. It is possible to communicate through such channels, but it takes a great deal of experience and sacrifice to do so.
pinballmars
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Re: Most impenetrable scenes

Post by pinballmars »

I think that Mr. C believes that he's communicating with Phillip Jeffries, but he's really communicating with Judy. This happens both in the scene in the motel room after he kills Darya (that mysterious phone call) and in the prison when Mr. C works his ability to manipulate electricity to screw with police surveillance while he makes his phone call. Judy can do this as long as there's an electrical current involved because that's how these entities travel and work. Judy is screwing with him and working against him. Meanwhile, Mr. C is unaware because he's doesn't even know what Judy really is.

I think the scene in Buenos Aires with the cylinder is the physical manifestation of Judy intercepting his message and trapping it and making it useless.
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