LateReg wrote:Pinky wrote:i'm fine with shifting the Fireman's scene everywhere, I tried many places when trying to get on board with the Coop Hubris theory. I'm not disputing it, Frost basically said it's what it appears to be, it just feels to me like we're supposed to base this on nothing more than Coop being confused in front of the Palmer house (and even from that we can only take that something has gone terribly awry, not that it is in any way Coop's fault).
It's a perfectly valid explanation to say that at some point offscreen, Coop came across some information about the Odessa crossing being 430 miles from some starting position for Coop and Diane, and at some point in his fuckery, Coop is whisked to the Fireman's where he is reminded of his error, perhaps, and told that he is now as a result 'far away'. In this reading, I guess we could take Andy's vision of the electricity pole outside Carrie's house not as a sign that Cooper was on the right path, but as a warning from the Fireman of the grave danger to come? But I would be stumped as to why Major Briggs would try so hard to make sure Coop had access to the boiler room portal of the Great Northern (unless Coop's mistake comes after this moment; the deciding to use Jeffries to go back to change things feels like an obvious contender, but after two seasons and a film's worth of watching Cooper follow their clues to relative success, it feels a bit disingenuous to suggest that, oh, this time it didn't go right, Coop did something wrong but we didn't feel like showing it - or the moment that he decided to make that decision, etc).
I would not have put this together myself, either, since we are supposed to think of Cooper as a nearly perfect, thoughtful person throughout the original incarnation; at least that's how I mostly considered him. Like everything else, The Return decides to flip that notion on its head, and apparently focus on the flaws of his character. Others have highlighted that he actually did fail before - after all, Maddy dies on his watch, and before then with Caroline, and again with Annie. That's a pattern of failure right there, all based around trying to save a girl. He also attempted to enter the black lodge, and apparently did so with imperfect courage, and failed in that. Now, as far as where his hubris comes in, I've read about that as well, but need a reminder as to where in his history we've seen him display such hubris before? Is his willingness to enter into the Black Lodge with imperfect courage an example? Whether he has displayed hubris or not, it doesn't matter much because one of the questions at the end has to be what kind of person would be so bold as to try to reset the past? Even if he did succeed, what kind of person would even attempt to do so? That's where the hubris undoubtedly comes into play.
S2: Tries to “trick” the Black Lodge with imperfect courage. Fails.
S3: Tries to “trick” the White Lodge with imperfect love. Fails.
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