No Ray Wise?

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Re: No Ray Wise?

Postby bosguy1981 » Tue Feb 05, 2019 12:50 pm

Cappy wrote:Re: Piper Laurie in Season 3

I really can't imagine where Lynch/Frost would've slotted Piper Laurie into S3, even if they really wanted to. Frost's mention of Catherine Martell in Secret History leaves her shrouded behind a bit of a question mark.


Total long shot, but maybe Catherine Martell the hermit would have become close with the reclusive Log Lady over the years. Maybe, Mark and David cooked up a couple scenes of the two of them together that never could have been filmed because of Catherine Coulson's illness? Probably not, but just an idea. Would Pete Martell have known the Log Lady's husband?
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Re: No Ray Wise?

Postby Mordeen » Tue Feb 05, 2019 1:25 pm

Soolsma wrote:I like to believe Chet was left out because the story didn't allow for another mystery agent gone lodgin'. Jeffries has that place. Frost indeed confirmed Chet was discussed.

I seem to vaguely remember something about Isaak expressing interest in returning and even reaching out to Lynch. Can't seem to find a source.


Correct. The first confirmation of Isaak wanting in was an answer he gave to a fan at one of his concerts. I can't find the source either but it was confirmed. Keifer was also approached but he had scheduling conflicts.

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Re: No Ray Wise?

Postby Mordeen » Tue Feb 05, 2019 1:27 pm

Here's a deleted scene with Agent Desmond:

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Re: No Ray Wise?

Postby Soolsma » Tue Feb 05, 2019 9:09 pm

^- :lol:

Kiefer Sutherland! That's a shame then. I would have been thrilled to see him return. I'm really fond of Sam Stanley, probably more so than Chet. I could see him fit a minor yet important role in the FBI investigation storyline.
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Re: No Ray Wise?

Postby Cappy » Wed Feb 06, 2019 11:55 am

Maybe Chris Isaak never got to appear in Season 3, but I almost detect some Special Agent Chet Desmond in "Richard", as portrayed by Kyle Maclachlan in ep. 18. The terseness, the propensity for violence, it comes across as being more akin to Desmond than Cooper.

And that motion "Richard" makes right before he asks "what year is it?", hand reaching out, maybe that's a little similar to Chet's last motion, with his hand reaching out for the Owl Cave Ring. If the ring teleported Chet away, perhaps "Richard" is where he ultimately ends up. I never thought much of the theories that suggested Chet Desmond and Cooper are somehow linked, whether that Coop is dreaming the Deer Meadow sequence in FWWM or Chet Desmond and Agent Stanley are disparate parts of Coop's fractured soul, but somehow after watching S3 a link between Desmond and Cooper seems sort of plausible.
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Re: No Ray Wise?

Postby Mr. Strawberry » Wed Feb 06, 2019 1:13 pm

Cappy wrote:
Mr. Strawberry wrote:I don't care if there's no story for Dick Tremayne, I don't even care if he actively gets in the way of the main storyline, bring him back god damnit.


Yeah I don't think there was much story for Dick in S3, but at the very least they could've put his grinning face on some real estate yard signs in that abandoned neighborhood DougieCoop first appears in.

We had time for appearances by Limping Guy at The New Fat Trout, and Wally Brando and stuff. Surely Dick Tremayne could have his own side story, something super serious of course, like working his hardest at being a private eye to determine if Wally is possibly a Tremayne or perhaps even Nicky Needleman pulling one over on the hapless and unwitting Brennan Family. All to impress Lucy though, or just to bring Andy down, maybe also to absolve himself of any financial or legal obligations, but definitely not because he actually cares about anyone.
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Re: No Ray Wise?

Postby Cappy » Wed Feb 06, 2019 3:02 pm

Mr. Strawberry wrote:We had time for appearances by Limping Guy at The New Fat Trout, and Wally Brando and stuff. Surely Dick Tremayne could have his own side story, something super serious of course, like working his hardest at being a private eye to determine if Wally is possibly a Tremayne or perhaps even Nicky Needleman pulling one over on the hapless and unwitting Brennan Family. All to impress Lucy though, or just to bring Andy down, maybe also to absolve himself of any financial or legal obligations, but definitely not because he actually cares about anyone.


Ha, maybe Dick Tremayne was the Fat Trout resident that didn't pay Limping Guy (Kriscol) for repairs. It would've been awesome to see old Carl Rodd struggle to tolerate Dick's self serving banter on a trip into town... Or maybe he could've been the mayor of Twin Peaks, tirelessly plotting on some new niche marketing scheme to generate interest in Twin Peaks, but the schemes would always backfire and create a new scandal for himself (a la Kyle Maclachlan's Mayor character in Portlandia).
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Re: No Ray Wise?

Postby eyeboogers » Wed Feb 06, 2019 4:17 pm

Cappy wrote:And that motion "Richard" makes right before he asks "what year is it?", hand reaching out, maybe that's a little similar to Chet's last motion, with his hand reaching out for the Owl Cave Ring. If the ring teleported Chet away, perhaps "Richard" is where he ultimately ends up. I never thought much of the theories that suggested Chet Desmond and Cooper are somehow linked, whether that Coop is dreaming the Deer Meadow sequence in FWWM or Chet Desmond and Agent Stanley are disparate parts of Coop's fractured soul, but somehow after watching S3 a link between Desmond and Cooper seems sort of plausible.


I still don't think much of that theory. The hand gesture doesn't have anything to do with Chet Desmond, and if you watch the episode again you will notice that Cooper performs the action several times. On this latest visit to the lodge he has become the magician and now knows how to open rifts that constitute doorways between the two worlds. You see him making the motion when he exits the lodge. You see him feeling around for rifts at the 430 mile stop (while Diane/Marjorie Cameron is still in the car), and then finally at the Palmer house. Chet Desmond on the other hand is just reaching for the ring.
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Re: No Ray Wise?

Postby Esselgee » Wed Feb 06, 2019 9:56 pm

I heard an interview with Chris Isaak right around the time that shooting was starting up. He said he hadn't heard anything about being in the new TP at that point but that he would basically do anything that David Lynch asked of him. So he was definitely up for whatever. I was hoping he was just trying to not reveal anything at the time.
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Re: No Ray Wise?

Postby Mordeen » Thu Feb 07, 2019 9:05 am

Soolsma wrote:^- :lol:

Kiefer Sutherland! That's a shame then. I would have been thrilled to see him return. I'm really fond of Sam Stanley, probably more so than Chet. I could see him fit a minor yet important role in the FBI investigation storyline.


Screenshots from the Sam Stanley deleted scene. They followed the trajectory from TSHoTP:

Sam Stanley.jpg
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Re: No Ray Wise?

Postby LateReg » Thu Feb 07, 2019 9:45 am

mtwentz wrote:
I don't think Frost/Lynch wanted to mix the Vegas world with the Twin Peaks world, so her character could have shown up briefly in Twin Peaks. The easiest way I can think of is having her show up at the RR Diner (even though she was never at the diner in the original series) during one of the scenes with Shelly or Norma.

But that would be a cameo for cameo's sake, pretty much what Mike Nelson got (though his scene did establish Steven's character, or lack thereof). Having a useless cameo would have provided little satisfaction to the fans.


I agree with the overall sentiment. I don't see any cheap cameo-for-cameo's-sake moments in The Return. But I also want to point out that Mike Nelson's scene is certainly not a cheap cameo, serving at least a few purposes. First/second, his appearance occurs when we're very much still on unstable ground, and causes us to think/wonder that he may in fact be a recurring character, when in fact, unbeknownst to us at that moment, it's actually introducing us to Steven and as you said establishing his character, or lack thereof. That's a neat little trick right there. Thirdly, it shows us the passage of time and how Mike - the rambunctious rebel rascal, a former Steven in fact - has now become the establishment, just like his friend Bobby. After you find out Becky is dating Steven - a hilarious reveal, btw - I also like to read into the scene based on the fact that Mike and Bobby might still be friends, and therefore that Mike knows about Steven and has every reason to act like such an asshole towards his friend's daughter's husband. So yeah, it's technically a "cameo," but I think there's a lot going on there, and the choice to include Mike Nelson over other characters was meticulous.
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Re: No Ray Wise?

Postby Mr. Strawberry » Thu Feb 07, 2019 10:39 am

Soolsma wrote:I like to believe Chet was left out because the story didn't allow for another mystery agent gone lodgin'. Jeffries has that place. Frost indeed confirmed Chet was discussed.

I seem to vaguely remember something about Isaak expressing interest in returning and even reaching out to Lynch. Can't seem to find a source.

How is the situation any different than the one with Michael Ontkean? They wrote a part for Harry Truman, couldn't work it out with the actor, dropped the character, and gave his scenes to Frank.

Since they couldn't secure the actor for the Phillip Jeffries role, a natural solution could have been to give his scenes to Chet Desmond, or at the very least to include Desmond as an agent working for / against Jeffries.
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Re: No Ray Wise?

Postby Mordeen » Thu Feb 07, 2019 3:29 pm

Several artistic decisions, some painful, had to be made based upon actor availability. Catherine Coulson was dying. Don Davis was dead. David Bowie was dead. Mike Anderson was, well, mentally ill. There's a long list of speedbumps they hit having waited 25 years to revisit Twin Peaks. Much of what was intended had to be either thrown out or heavily revised. The story would have been very different if Ontkean was more available and budget allowed them to shoot all his scenes on sets in Hawaii, but that was impossible. Jeffries would not have been a tea kettle. And The Arm would not have been an evolution. MJA had a huge role in The Return that was whittled down to just a few scenes of a brain mouth on a sycamore sapling. Major Briggs would have been a pivotal character, not a harbinger. Shit happens. Getting back on point, I think what's more disheartening is the reduced roles of those whom were on board who were so critical to Cooper's dreamscape: Laura, Sarah, Leland, Audrey, et al. Those were the creative decisions that still have me baffled.

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Re: No Ray Wise?

Postby Mr. Strawberry » Thu Feb 07, 2019 4:02 pm

Yeah, that's understandable. Initially and for quite some time after the show ended, I shared your view. But at some point I had to wonder if wanting more of those characters was in fact the same yearning for nostalgia and warm comfort of familiarity that I was consciously attempting to stave off in the name of enjoying a new story. No final conclusion here since I still haven't done a rewatch.

It is really strange to feature Leland for 2 seconds though. My gut figured that he'd be a big part of the show even if logically there's really no reason or need for him to.
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Re: No Ray Wise?

Postby Mr. Reindeer » Thu Feb 07, 2019 9:10 pm

Mordeen wrote:Several artistic decisions, some painful, had to be made based upon actor availability. Catherine Coulson was dying. Don Davis was dead. David Bowie was dead.


A small point, but Bowie died four months into production. DKL has said that they reached out to Bowie’s lawyer and were merely told that he was unavailable.

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