No Ray Wise?

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Cappy
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Re: No Ray Wise?

Postby Cappy » Fri Feb 08, 2019 9:14 pm

Re: Audrey's original role in S3

Watching S3 the first time through, I really suspected Naido was going to be revealed as Audrey. The narrative still kind of feels like it was setting that up on some level, with Audrey shifting or waking up from the bar and ending up in some white room in ep. 16, then Naido being revealed as... Diane in ep. 17. The story wasn't really setting up the Diane twist all that much, so I do wonder if Lynch slotted her into the role of Naido's real identity after the problems with Sherilyn Fenn. You could cover up Audrey's eyes and she would (sort of) resemble Naido. Possibly Naido's (lack of) eyes and her facial scars would be wounds from the bank explosion, with Naido's weird language a symptom of some brain injury.

Who knows, maybe the first half of episode 18 would have featured Cooper and Audrey doing the same things Cooper and Diane did, such as traveling and having awkward intercourse, with Audrey expressing a deep discomfort similar to Diane, which would fit her character too, given the circumstances of Richard's conception. It would especially be fitting, considering that Cooper wakes up the next day going by the name Richard. Even the brief moment of Diane looking out of a car to see another version of herself outside a hotel could fit Audrey's character almost as easily, given how she has been depicted as moving between different worlds or different versions of herself.

It's interesting to wonder how much got shifted around based on Sherilyn's initial walking away from S3. Supposedly all of the Charlie stuff arose from her coming back into the fold near the end, but we really don't know much.
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Re: No Ray Wise?

Postby eyeboogers » Sat Feb 09, 2019 4:39 am

Cappy wrote:Re: Audrey's original role in S3

It's interesting to wonder how much got shifted around based on Sherilyn's initial walking away from S3. Supposedly all of the Charlie stuff arose from her coming back into the fold near the end, but we really don't know much.


We actually do know a bit. We know that she was supposed to run a hair dresser in town, and that the "How are you today Johnny" scene was supposed to be with her, not Sylvia Horne.

The Diane thing was setup, the whole "No knock, no doorbell" monologue did that. We know that Laura Dern was booked to play the part before Sherilyn decided to not show up for her scenes. Sherilyn's complaints were specifically about the size of her part (and salary I think), so I don't think Audrey was ever meant to be that central for the season.
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Re: No Ray Wise?

Postby kitty666cats » Sat Feb 09, 2019 6:07 am

N. Needleman wrote:I've never seen or heard anything legit indicating those roles were cut down from what was originally intended. And I heard a lot I didn't talk about.


How the heck did Mordeen and you hear all this secret stuff? Friends with crew members of S3 or something? At least you're not as cryptic as Mordeen, sometimes I think they're bullshitting and just yanking our tails for fun :lol:
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Re: No Ray Wise?

Postby krishnanspace » Sat Feb 09, 2019 6:13 am

I think Mordeen and N.Needleman are Lynch and Frost lol
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Pinky
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Re: No Ray Wise?

Postby Pinky » Sat Feb 09, 2019 1:51 pm

kitty666cats wrote:
N. Needleman wrote:I've never seen or heard anything legit indicating those roles were cut down from what was originally intended. And I heard a lot I didn't talk about.


How the heck did Mordeen and you hear all this secret stuff? Friends with crew members of S3 or something? At least you're not as cryptic as Mordeen, sometimes I think they're bullshitting and just yanking our tails for fun :lol:



Any chance that sometime in the near future some of you folks will be more inclined to share the rest of what you know? The show coming back seems pretty unlikely now. Would it be possible to give a bit more information without outing yourselves or jeopardising future work prospects etc? I'd even settle for just a higher volume of the cryptic stuff!
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Re: No Ray Wise?

Postby N. Needleman » Sat Feb 09, 2019 2:49 pm

I can't speak for what anyone else here or elsewhere heard or didn't hear. All I know is I didn't talk about it. I also don't know of any information that would indicate that Audrey's original role was anything other than what she and TPTB have indicated it was after the fact - the beauty salon stuff, the scene with Richard that was given to Sylvia when Sherilyn protested, etc. AFAIK that was the extent of Audrey's role as originally scripted. I didn't learn the exact details of those scenes until many months later when everyone else did and Sherilyn/Frost/etc. made it public. There were a few different stories about what happened with Piper Laurie floating around before/during S3, but nothing that indicated Catherine was in the original script.

Pinky wrote:Any chance that sometime in the near future some of you folks will be more inclined to share the rest of what you know? The show coming back seems pretty unlikely now.


You may think that, I don't. That being said almost anything I knew before Season 3 everyone knows now. The few things I heard that went unreported are vague and there's not enough background for me to call them real. But I don't talk about 'em. They're not that dramatic or earth-shattering though.
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Re: No Ray Wise?

Postby mtwentz » Sat Feb 09, 2019 7:31 pm

I still am hopeful we will get more Twin Peaks. What form it will take if it happens is another story. Probably not 18 hours this time, maybe 8 or 9.
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Re: No Ray Wise?

Postby baxter » Sun Feb 10, 2019 4:55 am

Same here! Even a 2 hr film would be good.
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Re: No Ray Wise?

Postby Mordeen » Sun Feb 10, 2019 12:33 pm

bosguy1981 wrote:
Mordeen wrote:Getting back on point, I think what's more disheartening is the reduced roles of those whom were on board who were so critical to Cooper's dreamscape: Laura, Sarah, Leland, Audrey, et al. Those were the creative decisions that still have me baffled.

- Mordeen


Fascinating! Can you reveal anything else about this, Mordeen? I know you previously mentioned Leland having more in the original plans. What about Sarah, Laura, and Audrey? I wonder if anybody other than Kyle (who read the full script) is even aware of some of these original plans for the actors that got scrapped.


The only role for those actors who participated in the show that got dramatically changed was Audrey's. As for the others, it's less that their actual written roles were reduced, but more my disappointment that their overall parts were so small. That of course is just my opinion. I think the Lodge and those affected by it should have played a more visible part, especially considering how important the Lodge's influence was on Cooper's experience in the Return.

- Mordeen
Moving Through Time. . .
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Audrey Horne
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Re: No Ray Wise?

Postby Audrey Horne » Sun Feb 10, 2019 6:03 pm

Ha. Whether you thought the Return was genius or a mess, I’m still baffled by how Lynch and Frost came together with this being the overall story they wanted to tell. It’d be (to me) like Friends returning and the powers that be focused on 346 new actors. And I also find it hilarious that they wanted to revisit it to only give it basically the exact same cliffhanger rom twenty five years ago... Cooper stuck again, and Audrey in a possible fate worse than death.
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Re: No Ray Wise?

Postby mtwentz » Mon Feb 11, 2019 6:50 am

Audrey Horne wrote:Ha. Whether you thought the Return was genius or a mess, I’m still baffled by how Lynch and Frost came together with this being the overall story they wanted to tell. It’d be (to me) like Friends returning and the powers that be focused on 346 new actors. And I also find it hilarious that they wanted to revisit it to only give it basically the exact same cliffhanger rom twenty five years ago... Cooper stuck again, and Audrey in a possible fate worse than death.


A couple of things:

1. My personal expectation, before the cast list was ever announced, was that Cooper would be the focus of the new show, and only about 4 or 5 of the original cast would come back, and even then for mostly minor roles. Not sure why, maybe it's from what I've seen on past show revivals, but I always thought Lynch and Frost would want to bring in fresh blood and focus on new characters. I also, over the years, imagined
Cooper's story would take place mostly outside Twin Peaks (though I had the story taking place in Philly and/or D.C., not Vegas and certainly not South Dakota.)

So unlike most fans, I was pleasantly surprised both by the amount of time we spent in Twin Peaks and the amount of time we got to spend with beloved characters. Hawk, Andy, Lucy, Albert and Gordon all had substantial roles. Audrey's role was puzzling at first but had a huge payoff. Sarah didn't have a lot of screen time, but boy was she effective in creating a dark mood. Bobby also was great. Everybody else from the original series was fine IMHO, with my only real personal disappointments being Ben Horne and Annie. We got good Ben back (or maybe conflicted Ben) and I really wanted bad Ben, and Annie's fate was not addressed at all.

2. "And I also find it hilarious that they wanted to revisit it to only give it basically the exact same cliffhanger from twenty five years ago"

This is a great point you make, but I don't think it was a matter of trolling the audience. I believe Lynch and Frost were making a sad statement about most people's lives, about their inability to learn and grow and truly break free. How many of us go through the years and decades, and don't feel we've made any progress: We're 'stuck' in the same place we were 5, 10, 20, 25 years before, economically, emotionally, etc.? Our dreams for our lives just never panned out the way we hoped. This was the key theme I took from The Return. It was definitely not a 'feel good' ending, but if you see the opening scene with the Fireman as the real ending, then you realize there is still hope for Cooper.

Side Note: My personal expectation over the years was that the final scene would be of Cooper dying in Annie's arms. I never actually expected him to be alive at the end. Curiously, the ending I had in mind was probably more uplifting :-).
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Audrey Horne
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Re: No Ray Wise?

Postby Audrey Horne » Mon Feb 11, 2019 11:31 pm

Baffled to me meaning when they sat down and were compelled to revisit their hit show by their train of thought with it. Like how did they start with their past product and remembering when it was in its glory and come up with things like take hit character Cooper and make him not Cooper for 90% of the show. Like if Friends came back and they made Rachel an astronaut in space, and the five others in Monica’s apartment were placed by other actors. Not saying whether or not I like the direction Lynch and Frost went in, just baffled at their desire of revisiting the show in the manner they did and how that talk even began.

I’m thinking something along the lines of Lynch saying let’s do Peaks again, and Frost says yes! Frost getting ready with his notes of what the greatest hits were that made their show top for that brief moment... Cooper and his coffee, Audrey and her cherry stem, the dancing dwarf in a red room, hot girls in diner uniforms, the girl in plastic all in the strange soap opera town, etc. “okay, David what are you thinking? Cooper fights to become himself again. Audrey, Bobby, Shelly are grown up and we can bring in some younger hip actors as their kids...”. Lynch: “234 actors and Vegas, Mark! Vegas!!” Frost throws all previous notes away.
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Re: No Ray Wise?

Postby Soolsma » Mon Feb 11, 2019 11:51 pm

Wasn't it recently suggested on this board that it was Frost imagining Cooper waking up in Vegas which got things going in the first place? I think Frost has always been very much in favor of increasing the scope of things, both historically and geographically. Just look at TSHOTP.

Sure, there was an obvious amount of Lynch this time around, but I certainly wouldn't underestimate Frost's part in the direction the show took.

But yes, there certainly could have been a little more cherry pie, coffee, general jolliness, the more subtle yet profound way of mystery storytelling, more beautiful and strange instead of just strange; some of the old aesthetics which made the show great. Not arguing with that.
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Re: No Ray Wise?

Postby eyeboogers » Tue Feb 12, 2019 2:34 am

Soolsma wrote:Wasn't it recently suggested on this board that it was Frost imagining Cooper waking up in Vegas which got things going in the first place? I think Frost has always been very much in favor of increasing the scope of things, both historically and geographically. Just look at TSHOTP.


Absolutely. anyone that has read Mark Frost's previous re-union work "The Six Messiahs" should have been prepared for things exploding into new locales and irreparable damage done to our charaters. In the novel there is even a SPOILER WARNING: glowing orb of evil being removed from the stomach of the hero by a Shaman.
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Re: No Ray Wise?

Postby Agent Earle » Tue Feb 12, 2019 2:57 am

Audrey Horne wrote:Baffled to me meaning when they sat down and were compelled to revisit their hit show by their train of thought with it. Like how did they start with their past product and remembering when it was in its glory and come up with things like take hit character Cooper and make him not Cooper for 90% of the show. Like if Friends came back and they made Rachel an astronaut in space, and the five others in Monica’s apartment were placed by other actors. Not saying whether or not I like the direction Lynch and Frost went in, just baffled at their desire of revisiting the show in the manner they did and how that talk even began.

I’m thinking something along the lines of Lynch saying let’s do Peaks again, and Frost says yes! Frost getting ready with his notes of what the greatest hits were that made their show top for that brief moment... Cooper and his coffee, Audrey and her cherry stem, the dancing dwarf in a red room, hot girls in diner uniforms, the girl in plastic all in the strange soap opera town, etc. “okay, David what are you thinking? Cooper fights to become himself again. Audrey, Bobby, Shelly are grown up and we can bring in some younger hip actors as their kids...”. Lynch: “234 actors and Vegas, Mark! Vegas!!” Frost throws all previous notes away.


LOL! I really enjoyed reading this post. Some excellent points there, Audrey (although it comes from someone very much in love with that part of the original show you're not exactly a fan of :wink: ).

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