How would Lynch/Frost tackle Season Four?

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Soolsma
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Re: How would Lynch/Frost tackle Season Four?

Postby Soolsma » Mon May 28, 2018 2:16 am

true, even the original Mr. C-Dougie seemed pretty capable. I mean, he had a job in insurance and friends who seemed to remember him less oblivious etc. It's probably the appetite for gambling and prostitutes, cooperation in insurance frauds and such that can be attributed to Mr C.
In character, the new Dougie could be a bit like Andy in character and in that sense possibly also have a strong connection with the White Lodge. He was made from Cooper on one of his best moments, he was completely separate from Mr C. and I couldn't detect a shred of imperfect courage then.
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Re: How would Lynch/Frost tackle Season Four?

Postby krishnanspace » Mon May 28, 2018 3:01 am

mtwentz wrote:
My guess is that the Bob storyline ended with him smashed to smithereens. It's the Woodsmen and Judy now.

My interpretation was that Bob is just defeated for now, not destroyed.He may still come back
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Re: How would Lynch/Frost tackle Season Four?

Postby NormoftheAndes » Mon May 28, 2018 3:35 am

Having Dougie back in any form would finish off Twin Peaks for good. That character fulfilled its role.

BOB is obviously not dead - you can't kill BOB, just rid of him for a while.
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Re: How would Lynch/Frost tackle Season Four?

Postby N. Needleman » Mon May 28, 2018 3:46 am

NormoftheAndes wrote:Having Dougie back in any form would finish off Twin Peaks for good.


That's what they said about FWWM. :twisted:
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Re: How would Lynch/Frost tackle Season Four?

Postby N. Needleman » Mon May 28, 2018 3:49 am

Soolsma wrote:true, even the original Mr. C-Dougie seemed pretty capable. I mean, he had a job in insurance and friends who seemed to remember him less oblivious etc. It's probably the appetite for gambling and prostitutes, cooperation in insurance frauds and such that can be attributed to Mr C.
In character, the new Dougie could be a bit like Andy in character and in that sense possibly also have a strong connection with the White Lodge. He was made from Cooper on one of his best moments, he was completely separate from Mr C. and I couldn't detect a shred of imperfect courage then.


I think he might be a tiny bit sharper than Andy overall, but yes, I assume they'd be similar characters. His brief reaction to MIKE also seemed reasonably aware and enthusiastic. And yes, I attribute Dougie 1.0's failings to Mr. C.
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Re: How would Lynch/Frost tackle Season Four?

Postby Mr. Reindeer » Mon May 28, 2018 7:21 am

I definitely prefer to view the Odessaverse as something more abstract and akin to the levels of dream-reality in INLAND EMPIRE. Carrie being an amnesiac alternate-reality Laura feels a bit too literal for this iteration of the show, which was far more more interested in exploring internal life and fragmented identity than in stock sci-fi and soap opera tropes. But as Needleman said, it’s all up for grabs. No doubt a S4 will make everything clear as day. ;)

BTW, I don’t mean to belittle what Mark is doing in his books, which is interesting in its own way. What fascinates me the most is that he seems to have deliberately planted inconsistencies indicating shifting timelines and possibly an infinite number of overlapping realities, not just two. For instance, he clearly had the Access Guide at hand when he wrote the bit about the 1968 “Lumberjacks” game, incorporating some pretty obscure, specific details from the AG while changing major things like the team’s name and the outcome of the season. That approach seems pretty deliberately meant to call attention to itself....but it’s a timeline change that predates Laura’s death/disappearance, and so can’t be explained by Cooper’s tampering (unless there was some sort of ripple effect both backwards and forwards?). But then, strangely, he elsewhere goes out of his way to elaborately clear up the Vivian/Norma discrepancy (in what is actually probably my favorite portion of TFD...I really like the gleefully baroque, deliberately soapy and convoluted nature of it). It’s impossible to tell what inconsistencies in the books were errors (and many clearly were, as indicated by Mark feeling the necessity to clean up the Norma story), which were intentionally dropped in to hint at shifting timelines (I’m pretty confident the football game was an example of this), and which were simply Mark exercising his stated view that continuity shouldn’t get in the way of a creator’s whims.

Sorry to go OT, but I never want to come off like I’m dismissing Mark’s work.

N. Needleman wrote:I always took the corpse and the criminal situation ("did you find him?") to mean that Carrie/Laura/whoever continued to struggle with abusers and predators throughout her existence, like BOB and her father, and that perhaps in this darker universe the corrupted Carrie had begun using BOB-like lethal force and violence to dispatch them. Odessa is a frightening town, and Carrie has a rotting corpse sitting in her home like it's nothing. She became at least a part of what BOB always wanted for her, a killer in his own image. Corrupted and far from the original golden orb.


Needleman, I forget if you were on sabbatical when I pointed out that Carrie’s corpse appears to have had an orb coming out of him at his time of death: viewtopic.php?f=29&t=3551&p=115282&hilit=Tommy#p115278

Any thoughts on that? It appears to work against your theory that Carrie had embraced Bob as a weapon, although certainly supports your theory that Carrie was a victim of abuse. I don’t think she was in a criminal situation though, since she willingly rides with law enforcement and feels that he will keep her safe from whomever she’s afraid of/in trouble with (obviously not the police). I agree though that her circumstances and her comments on how she tried to keep a clean house definitely indicate some degree of corruption of her values.
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Re: How would Lynch/Frost tackle Season Four?

Postby Mr. Reindeer » Mon May 28, 2018 8:00 am

Hopefully not straying too far OT, since the content of S4 inevitably rests on the foundation of whatever the heck happened in S3...

Question for those of you who believe Odessa is the alternate reality from TFD: Where do you believe Laura went after disappearing from Cooper’s hand in 1989?
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Re: How would Lynch/Frost tackle Season Four?

Postby Soolsma » Mon May 28, 2018 8:09 am

Simple. To the Odessa-verse. She was inserted there by evil/Judy, just like Dido and the Fireman inserted her once. At that point she also received a new past as Carrie.

[edit: ah, sorry. Misread you there. Thought you said an alternate reality from the one in TFD.]
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Re: How would Lynch/Frost tackle Season Four?

Postby LateReg » Mon May 28, 2018 8:21 am

Needleman and Reindeer, please remind me of the Norma and Vivian part of TFD...from what I remember isn't it also possible this is an example of shifting/multiple timelines? Especially when you factor Annie's age in there, which can't be right, if I recall (16 when she met Coop?).

I'm all about the books' inconsistencies being purposeful, especially since before the show aired, while on his book tour or in an interview about the book, Frost made that comment about how there are things we think we know but don't.
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Re: How would Lynch/Frost tackle Season Four?

Postby Mr. Reindeer » Mon May 28, 2018 8:21 am

Soolsma wrote:Simple. To the Odessa-verse. She was inserted there by evil/Judy, just like Dido and the Fireman inserted her once. At that point she also received a new past as Carrie.


Right. But we’re theoretically saying that the Odessaverse is the same reality as the timeline where Dale takes Laura by the hand, right? Leo & Jacques & Ronette wait and wait for her, Pete goes fishing the next morning....and some 20-odd years later, Laura pops up in Odessa as Carrie Page in this same reality. So there IS no Odessaverse. My question then is, is Laura transported to the future wholesale with a programmed past as Carrie Page? Or is she plopped right back into reality on 2/23/89, or at some other point in time? If so, is she deposited in Twin Peaks, Odessa, or elsewhere? Does she spend any time in the Red Room?

(Obviously this is all speculative and wildly open to imagination, but I’m just curious how people are picturing the progression of events, because I’m having trouble even trying out this headspace, and I’d like to give it some thought.)
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Re: How would Lynch/Frost tackle Season Four?

Postby Mr. Reindeer » Mon May 28, 2018 8:27 am

LateReg wrote:Needleman and Reindeer, please remind me of the Norma and Vivian part of TFD...from what I remember isn't it also possible this is an example of shifting/multiple timelines? Especially when you factor Annie's age in there, which can't be right, if I recall (16 when she met Coop?).


Mark goes out of his way to retcon the Marty/Ilsa backstory in TSHoTP to accomodate Vivian’s existence (which it seems to me Mark pretty obviously had forgotten while writing TSH). There are still definitely discrepancies (Ernie and Ilsa get together much earlier in the book, whereas in the series they are honeymooning newlyweds in 1989; and Ernie in the series says that Norma inherited her Vivian’s looks). And yes, Annie’s age is one of those things in Mark’s books that is not only inconsistent with the series, but also internally inconsistent in the book itself. The book says Annie was born in 1973; if you track out the passage of time in her storyline within the book, her leaving the convent and returning to Twin Peaks would have to occur in the mid-‘90s! I’m not sure that that’s really indicative of alternate timelines, though.
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Re: How would Lynch/Frost tackle Season Four?

Postby N. Needleman » Mon May 28, 2018 9:07 am

Mr. Reindeer wrote:Any thoughts on that? It appears to work against your theory that Carrie had embraced Bob as a weapon, although certainly supports your theory that Carrie was a victim of abuse.


I don't think Carrie/Laura/whoever uses BOB himself as a weapon - for all I know BOB is still obliterated in the Odessaverse. What I mean is I feel that the corpse in her home implies that in order to punish her abusers or potential enemies she has embraced the kind of violence BOB inflicts and wanted Laura to inflict as his host. So she has become corrupted.

I don't know what that thing in the dude's chest is. I don't know that it's an orb but it could be. Maybe it's the BOB orb - dead again!

I don’t think she was in a criminal situation though, since she willingly rides with law enforcement and feels that he will keep her safe from whomever she’s afraid of/in trouble with (obviously not the police).


Again, I don't think a ton of real world logic can be applied to much of the scenes in Odessa. Carrie's entire life feels wrong and unsettling, and that's without even mentioning the dead man in her living room. I don't think that is an indicator that she is entirely above board. But I also don't think she is bad/a villain. She's corrupted just as Cooper has become. And maybe the ending shows Laura Palmer remembering who she was.
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Re: How would Lynch/Frost tackle Season Four?

Postby LateReg » Mon May 28, 2018 9:36 am

I would say that thing in the dude's chest in Odessa is definitely an orb like the Bob orb. There's no question in my mind, even though it took me forever to notice it, and only did after it was pointed out. It looks just like it, same color, same texture.

Also, as you know from my interpretation, I don't think that Bob is actually obliterated. Evil can't be eliminated, only defeated for a moment. That said, if Judy is the ultimate evil, then perhaps a lesser evil could be vanquished...but only to be replaced by another lesser evil, which in effect would be another Bob. So, no, I still can't see Bob obliterated...UNLESS I take your point of view re the earnestness of Freddy. Which I don't mind doing, and in that case I can see Bob being obliterated in that scene. Maybe it is a commentary on how there's always something more evil at play, evil behind the evil.

As far as Vivian, I still see that sitting with Frost's statement about only thinking we know something, which is a catch all for any revisions. It could mean anything really, but I think it all still fits with the idea that we can't really know everything because things are happening differently than what we think we knew.
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Re: How would Lynch/Frost tackle Season Four?

Postby Harry S. Truman » Mon May 28, 2018 3:21 pm

I would like see more of the alternate timeline of Laura,s missing, new characters and also the old cast, a alternate twin Peaks with the time moving forward and backward and cooper finding gordon to help come back to his time. it would be great.
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Re: How would Lynch/Frost tackle Season Four?

Postby krishnanspace » Mon May 28, 2018 9:53 pm

I think there is a Reason why Jeffries said,"Gordon will remember the original timeline".If a Season 4 comes out,Gordon will be one who will rescue Coop.

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