How would Lynch/Frost tackle Season Four?

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Soolsma
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Re: How would Lynch/Frost tackle Season Four?

Postby Soolsma » Fri Jun 15, 2018 1:02 am

Jasper wrote:Speaking of fan-made stuff, this is pretty interesting:


Woah that's awesome! the other videos on that channel as well! I particularly like this one, it has IE blended in and some humor.
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Harry S. Truman
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Re: How would Lynch/Frost tackle Season Four?

Postby Harry S. Truman » Fri Jun 15, 2018 3:05 pm

madeleineferguson wrote:I just started my third rewatch of Season 3 and each time, it gets even better.

I will say that I believe we've all been had. I think Season 4 has been planned all along. Maybe not definite, but at least sketched out. It's all been set up so perfectly to continue, I think.

We've no idea what more was filmed, but I wouldn't be surprised if there was a ton left on the cutting room floor. If I remember correctly, according to witnesses who saw filming, the final scene with Dale & Laura in front of the Palmer house didn't just end with them standing in the street. They got back into the car and drove away together. So Season 4 could potentially pick up immediately where it left off, with film already captured from Season 3.

I think Season 4 is set up to be Sheryl Lee centric.


I hope. it would be wonderful.
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Re: How would Lynch/Frost tackle Season Four?

Postby Harry S. Truman » Fri Jun 15, 2018 3:06 pm

Xavi wrote:
Hester Prynne wrote:... While the Arm's question has changed, Mike's message stays the same, and the show ends with Cooper's confusion as to what year he's living in.


I needed to laugh when I read the above and was thinking about all the disappointed fans, who expected a Season 3 full with "what they were familiar with in the old days." The "question" echoes exactly this conflict between time that has progressed and people that remain stuck in the past.

In a more general sense, the otherworldly areas in TP, Black/White Lodge, Above The Convenience Store, The Mauve World, The Giant's Palace, etc, all seem places that defeat time; probably Lynch might describe them as domains within "the timeless path."

The Fireman showed Andy all three manifestations of time; past, present and future. As a matter of fact The Fireman didn't merely show Andy, albeit he "incepted" his brain with every single detail about a time to come, and as a result all Andy needed to do, was "act on intuition." In those moments Andy was omniscient, so to speak.


I Agree.
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Re: How would Lynch/Frost tackle Season Four?

Postby LateReg » Wed Jun 20, 2018 12:30 pm

The digital was alarming at first, but I grew to love its subtlety, especially as I started to see still images that told me that the Showtime stream was not doing it justice. There's a crispness that fits this series, as though you can't escape reality or the world as it is, which this series presents more often than the surreal, dreamlike elements; I also prefer the look of the Red Room in The Return to that of the original series. While I'd never champion it over film, this digital look was the right way to go, imo, for what The Return is interested in expressing.
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Re: How would Lynch/Frost tackle Season Four?

Postby NormoftheAndes » Wed Jun 20, 2018 5:12 pm

LateReg wrote:The digital was alarming at first, but I grew to love its subtlety, especially as I started to see still images that told me that the Showtime stream was not doing it justice. There's a crispness that fits this series, as though you can't escape reality or the world as it is, which this series presents more often than the surreal, dreamlike elements; I also prefer the look of the Red Room in The Return to that of the original series. While I'd never champion it over film, this digital look was the right way to go, imo, for what The Return is interested in expressing.


Really? I thought that the look of this series foregrounded its very manufactured quality - everything feels staged and like a set.
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Re: How would Lynch/Frost tackle Season Four?

Postby Mr. Reindeer » Wed Jun 20, 2018 7:10 pm

NormoftheAndes wrote:
LateReg wrote:The digital was alarming at first, but I grew to love its subtlety, especially as I started to see still images that told me that the Showtime stream was not doing it justice. There's a crispness that fits this series, as though you can't escape reality or the world as it is, which this series presents more often than the surreal, dreamlike elements; I also prefer the look of the Red Room in The Return to that of the original series. While I'd never champion it over film, this digital look was the right way to go, imo, for what The Return is interested in expressing.


Really? I thought that the look of this series foregrounded its very manufactured quality - everything feels staged and like a set.


I think overall the interiors felt a lot more “real” than on the original series (not necessarily including the pilot and FWWM), the Double R being the best one-to-one comparison. The Red Room makes for an interesting case study. The version on the original show feels very setbound, with an enclosed little space and the outline of the stage lights literally visible through the chintzy curtain, and of course the film grain. The new show, on the other hand, presents a Red Room so sleek and polished that many people (presumptuously and incorrectly, but also not unreasonably) adamantly insisted it was CGI at first. Each version comes across as manufactured or artificial in its own way...and that can translate to “otherworldly,” depending on your personal aesthetic preferences. I do think a lot of the daytime woods scenes in particular (Part 14 sheriff’s station crew, Becky & Steven) played as hyperrealistic in the new show.
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Re: How would Lynch/Frost tackle Season Four?

Postby baxter » Wed Jun 20, 2018 8:59 pm

I found the digital look off-putting at first, but am rewatching now on bluray on an HD projector. It looks absolutely fantastic!

Rewatching again after a good gap also makes me realise that I have "adjusted" to S3, and there is now enough distance from my expectations that I can enjoy it almost anew.

I also left S3 thinking that it was an obvious set up for a S4. Then there was Frost liking a tweet that said that E17 was the finale, and E18 was the start of a new season.
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Re: How would Lynch/Frost tackle Season Four?

Postby baxter » Wed Jun 20, 2018 9:00 pm

That's the first time that I've heard about the witnesses to the Palmer scene claiming that it went on longer. If that is true, it is very exciting!
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Re: How would Lynch/Frost tackle Season Four?

Postby LateReg » Wed Jun 20, 2018 9:34 pm

NormoftheAndes wrote:
LateReg wrote:The digital was alarming at first, but I grew to love its subtlety, especially as I started to see still images that told me that the Showtime stream was not doing it justice. There's a crispness that fits this series, as though you can't escape reality or the world as it is, which this series presents more often than the surreal, dreamlike elements; I also prefer the look of the Red Room in The Return to that of the original series. While I'd never champion it over film, this digital look was the right way to go, imo, for what The Return is interested in expressing.


Really? I thought that the look of this series foregrounded its very manufactured quality - everything feels staged and like a set.


I'm one of the major proponents of the "fact" that it seems like Lynch is demonstrating the layers of artificiality, showing the seams, and blurring the line between fiction and reality in many aspects of The Return, but in general I think that the everyday living scenes are grounded in banality and have a realism to match. I also think that through sheer force of Lynch's power as a filmmaker that many of the sequences come off as dreamlike. The woods felt like I was there, for sure; the red room did as well. Both are real and dreamlike in different ways and equal measure to me.
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Re: How would Lynch/Frost tackle Season Four?

Postby NormoftheAndes » Thu Jun 21, 2018 12:34 am

LateReg wrote:
NormoftheAndes wrote:
LateReg wrote:The digital was alarming at first, but I grew to love its subtlety, especially as I started to see still images that told me that the Showtime stream was not doing it justice. There's a crispness that fits this series, as though you can't escape reality or the world as it is, which this series presents more often than the surreal, dreamlike elements; I also prefer the look of the Red Room in The Return to that of the original series. While I'd never champion it over film, this digital look was the right way to go, imo, for what The Return is interested in expressing.


Really? I thought that the look of this series foregrounded its very manufactured quality - everything feels staged and like a set.


I'm one of the major proponents of the "fact" that it seems like Lynch is demonstrating the layers of artificiality, showing the seams, and blurring the line between fiction and reality in many aspects of The Return, but in general I think that the everyday living scenes are grounded in banality and have a realism to match. I also think that through sheer force of Lynch's power as a filmmaker that many of the sequences come off as dreamlike. The woods felt like I was there, for sure; the red room did as well. Both are real and dreamlike in different ways and equal measure to me.


Yes, well put LateReg! Real and dreamlike at the same time seems exactly right.

MrReindeers - hyperrealism is a good term too - but this gives plenty of 'room to dream' and the woods hike, Steven and Gersten etc - those scenes feel like a combination of reality and a super-sharp and vivid dream.
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Re: How would Lynch/Frost tackle Season Four?

Postby madeleineferguson » Fri Jun 22, 2018 12:58 am

I just brought this up in the Part 3/4 Thread, but it feels right to post it here too...

The Lois Duffy story. It foreshadowed this amazing ultimate ending between Cooper and BOB, but that never happened. Instead, BOB faced off with some random British guy with a plastic green glove. We never got Cooper facing off against BOB, or better yet, Cooper facing himself. And we never got any real feeling that BOB was actually defeated. BOB was deterred, yes. But annihilated? I don't know.

To me, this is one of the biggest signs that the end of Season 3 was not the conclusion of the series.
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Re: How would Lynch/Frost tackle Season Four?

Postby N. Needleman » Fri Jun 22, 2018 2:06 am

I think BOB is done (and I loved Freddie and that ending for him - I found it very satisfying that this sweet naif took him apart). But I've been wrong before.

I don't think it was ever between Cooper and BOB or ever will be. BOB was Laura's nemesis and Laura beat him in FWWM. BOB got dispatched for good(?) by the forces of the White Lodge in Season 3. The true enemy is Judy, and more importantly, man's own weakness - Cooper's own pride. If he'd left well enough alone and not resurrected his 25-year-old manchild's scheme to take "two birds with one stone" and save Laura, everything could've come to a better end.

To be clear, I don't believe it was a purely personal mission. I think Cooper also intended to use Laura to defeat Judy, as he, Briggs and Cole had discussed - but I don't believe he needed to rewrite history to do that. Saving Laura was personal - he did it because he wanted to be the ultimate hero and rewrite his own past with Caroline. Two birds, one stone. Man's weakness, man's overreach. Same as Episode 29.

(I also think the Lois Duffy story is largely there to foreshadow the Diane reveal.)
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Re: How would Lynch/Frost tackle Season Four?

Postby Pinky » Fri Jun 22, 2018 10:06 am

N. Needleman wrote:I think BOB is done (and I loved Freddie and that ending for him - I found it very satisfying that this sweet naif took him apart). But I've been wrong before.

I don't think it was ever between Cooper and BOB or ever will be. BOB was Laura's nemesis and Laura beat him in FWWM. BOB got dispatched for good(?) by the forces of the White Lodge in Season 3. The true enemy is Judy, and more importantly, man's own weakness - Cooper's own pride. If he'd left well enough alone and not resurrected his 25-year-old manchild's scheme to take "two birds with one stone" and save Laura, everything could've come to a better end.

To be clear, I don't believe it was a purely personal mission. I think Cooper also intended to use Laura to defeat Judy, as he, Briggs and Cole had discussed - but I don't believe he needed to rewrite history to do that. Saving Laura was personal - he did it because he wanted to be the ultimate hero and rewrite his own past with Caroline. Two birds, one stone. Man's weakness, man's overreach. Same as Episode 29.

(I also think the Lois Duffy story is largely there to foreshadow the Diane reveal.)



I'm pretty much in agreement, I think. We can read the Fireman's message to Cooper in E1 as being a warning and not actually a mission for Cooper to accept, but how does it square with Briggs wanting Cooper to access the Great Northern portal? Wouldn't he want Cooper to stay far away from such a place? Or was Cooper meant to go there and it's what he did when he got there (go back in time) that was the mistake? What do we think Briggs' actually meant for Cooper to do when he got to Jeffries?
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Re: How would Lynch/Frost tackle Season Four?

Postby N. Needleman » Fri Jun 22, 2018 12:33 pm

Pinky wrote:how does it square with Briggs wanting Cooper to access the Great Northern portal? Wouldn't he want Cooper to stay far away from such a place? Or was Cooper meant to go there and it's what he did when he got there (go back in time) that was the mistake?


That last sentence is the key for me. Remember, Cole says Cooper gave him and Briggs a message - it was Cooper's personal strategy to deal with their shared mystery. Although I assume neither Cooper nor Briggs (when alive) had any idea where exactly Coop would have to go and what he'd find.
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Re: How would Lynch/Frost tackle Season Four?

Postby Soolsma » Sat Jun 23, 2018 6:34 am

NormoftheAndes wrote:MrReindeers - hyperrealism is a good term too - but this gives plenty of 'room to dream' and the woods hike, Steven and Gersten etc - those scenes feel like a combination of reality and a super-sharp and vivid dream.


Hyperrealism is indeed a term that lends itself quite well to the HD polished look that so many people seem to have a problem with. Actually I there's a hint of hyperrealism to pretty much all cinema in this age of HD cameras and HD screens, in which we are able to see things way more polished and sharp than our eyes normally would. I've even seen people here saying it defeats the surreality of the new Peaks, against which I very much beg to differ. What is easily forgotten is that a key element of surrealism is not just the high level of fantasy free of boundaries, restrictions and not adhering to any set style in particular, it's also very much about the conjunction between the two worlds; those of reality and surreality. I feel that inflating one of the two, in this case realism through a form of hyperrealism, enforces that very juxtaposition.
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