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Re: What would a Season 4 be about?

Posted: Tue Feb 19, 2019 11:10 am
by Mordeen
Folklore and history are interwoven into Twin Peaks, and Naido was "faceless."

- Mordeen

Re: What would a Season 4 be about?

Posted: Tue Feb 19, 2019 12:07 pm
by Hester Prynne
I read online that Naido in Japanese Buddhism stands for "inner path," but I don't know if that is correct or just something a fan posted. So, Cooper's inner path is blind/cannot see and cannot communicate.

Dido is also referred to as Elisha in some texts which can stand for "fire" or "woman," but it can also stand for God is satisfaction.

Re: What would a Season 4 be about?

Posted: Tue Feb 19, 2019 1:40 pm
by Cappy
Since we've been touching on mythology in this thread, does anyone know of any precedent or parallel for Richard Horne's demise in world myths?

It's one of the most 'wtf?' moments in S3, as well as a potential cliffhanger that could be answered in S4 (although it seems that, in part, Richard is re-incorporated into some composite Cooper as "Richard" in ep. 18). I'm still not sure what to make of this scene, but there's something oddly old world-y and mythical about it, this moment of a man putting his son on a rock on a hill in order to achieve some sort of (other)worldy gain.

To my knowledge, the thing that comes closest to this moment would have to be Abraham's attempted sacrifice of Isaac from the book of Genesis (bible spoiler alert). God commands Abraham to sacrifice his son Isaac, and Abraham almost complies, but is stopped by God right before he can do the deed. Most of the commentaries I have read on it seem to categorize the story as a test of Abraham's faith in God. In a way, Mr. C and Richard are kind of like the reverse of that. Mr. C is seeking to attain something powerful, maybe even spiritual, but has no faith in the coordinates leading to the top of that weird rock. To convince himself of this, he must gather empirical evidence, so he sends his son to stand on top of the rock. Richard gets zapped, and this seemingly confirms Mr. C's lack of faith (or maybe confidence would be a better word?) in this location.

One has to wonder though, if perhaps Mr. C was open to believing in impossible things without empirical evidence (and numbers, i.e. coordinates), maybe even have an open mind (or open heart), then something different would have happened had he stepped on the rock. Sort of like what Hawk said, about confronting the "dweller on the threshold", how if you face it with imperfect courage it will destroy you. Or maybe it's closer to Maj. Briggs' suggestion that the White Lodge can only be accessed with love. I'm probably conflating some different things here, but Mr. C's quest might have been fundamentally flawed from the get-go, as he didn't have the right stuff on the inside to receive whatever he was trying to attain.

There's also Icarus and Daedalus, but that just feels very different from Richard and Mr. C. People often cite Icarus as a metaphor for the pitfalls of boundless ambition, whereas Richard just steps on an electric rock because his dad tells him too. Which brings the question back to Richard -- what happened to him?

Random weird thing: The rock Richard gets zapped on reminds me of the head of the Eraserhead baby.

Re: What would a Season 4 be about?

Posted: Tue Feb 19, 2019 2:48 pm
by boske
Following the discussion here today, I keep thinking of Maddy in the lodge in episode 29, and her "watch out for my cousin". If Laura is Athena, then it is more likely that Maddy is Persephone, and her murder by Leland analogous to Persephone's abduction by Hades.

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Re: What would a Season 4 be about?

Posted: Tue Feb 19, 2019 8:37 pm
by Hester Prynne
boske wrote:Following the discussion here today, I keep thinking of Maddy in the lodge in episode 29, and her "watch out for my cousin". If Laura is Athena, then it is more likely that Maddy is Persephone, and her murder by Leland analogous to Persephone's abduction by Hades.
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This reminded me of the seen in Episode 17 when Cooper is leading Laura out of the woods. Hades allows Orpheus to bring Persephone back from the underworld, but only on the condition that he doesn't look back at her until they reach the upper world. In his haste, once Orpheus reaches the upper world, he turns back and looks at her before she's reached the top, and she's ripped away forever - like Laura being ripped away from Cooper as he leads her through the woods trying to undo her death.

Re: What would a Season 4 be about?

Posted: Tue Feb 19, 2019 8:49 pm
by Mr. Reindeer
Wonderful stuff in this thread lately! Not much to add, but all the parallels to Greek mythology are fascinating to read, and Frost has said that certain Greek myths were definitely on his mind when writing the show. Sort of makes me wish his books had explored that aspect more, rather than going the well-trod conspiracy theory/UFO route.

Re: What would a Season 4 be about?

Posted: Wed Feb 20, 2019 3:30 am
by boske
When I saw parts 3 amd 4 of S3, I went back to reading Eliade's book on Shamanism, as I recalled that Dougie exhibited symptoms common to shamans coming back from their otherwordly journeys, and yes he does talk about that in the book. And in his (Eliade's) book on Yoga, he talks of the symbolism of different color including purple. The show started even better than I had hoped it would have, and then by the time part 6 ended, it collapsed for me under my very eyes. I stopped reading and moved elsewhere, there is so much time one has, it is not unlimited sadly.

From this perspective, in S3, all this mythology, symbolism, and surrealism used anthropomorphic images to describe psychological processes in Cooper's mind, as he is dreaming (be it in coma or not). Having given it up for good, I am now warmed up to seeing another season of it, as much as I hated sizable parts of S3, there are also some other parts that are simply brilliant. Hopefully, L&F feel like they have another story to tell here.

Re: What would a Season 4 be about?

Posted: Wed Feb 20, 2019 5:17 am
by Mr. Reindeer
The anagram thing is also fascinating. It is worth noting that “Sonny Jim” is a name that has popped up repeatedly in Lynch’s work (in The Elephant Man and the online short Pierre and Sonny Jim), so it’s actually not that unusual a name (for him). And of course, Dougie is also a name that popped up in the original show and obviously tickles Frost. So Janey-E is the outlier in terms of weirdness (and I do believe that her name fits in with the “Dian-O,” “Dian-C,” etc. naming pattern that repeatedly pops up in various anagrams throughout the show, particularly as Janey-E is Diane’s sister).

I’m not sure that Cooper would use the word “my” to refer to Josie. Perhaps he’s conflating himself with Harry in his dreamstate because he felt such a bond to him? In any event, if it is purely a coincidence, it is a pretty wild one (and one that I think Lynch would love). Guess we may never know for sure.

Re: What would a Season 4 be about?

Posted: Wed Feb 20, 2019 1:11 pm
by Mr. Strawberry
boske wrote:When I saw parts 3 amd 4 of S3, I went back to reading Eliade's book on Shamanism, as I recalled that Dougie exhibited symptoms common to shamans coming back from their otherwordly journeys, and yes he does talk about that in the book. And in his (Eliade's) book on Yoga, he talks of the symbolism of different color including purple. The show started even better than I had hoped it would have, and then by the time part 6 ended, it collapsed for me under my very eyes. I stopped reading and moved elsewhere, there is so much time one has, it is not unlimited sadly.

From this perspective, in S3, all this mythology, symbolism, and surrealism used anthropomorphic images to describe psychological processes in Cooper's mind, as he is dreaming (be it in coma or not). Having given it up for good, I am now warmed up to seeing another season of it, as much as I hated sizable parts of S3, there are also some other parts that are simply brilliant. Hopefully, L&F feel like they have another story to tell here.

Just wanted to say that I highly recommend a rewatch. I came away from the show feeling really weird after it aired, somewhat depressed even, and went through a few ups and downs before accepting that if nothing else, we were extremely lucky to have more Twin Peaks. Time passed and my appreciation for the story grew as I managed to let go of the 25 years of "baggage" that I'd brought along for the ride.

However, I recently began a rewatch and it's way different from how I recalled it. There's plenty that I forgot as well, and it's really fun to piece all the fragments together, now that I have at least a modicum of understanding about what's happening and where things are headed. Biggest shocker is how much more enjoyable and how funny Dazed Cooper is this time around. Initially I wondered how on Earth I'd be able to watch all those scenes again, but when you care about a character and aren't fretting over what's going to happen next, or upset about what isn't happening next for that matter, it goes a long way.

It's sort of like seeing it for the first time, kind of hard to explain, but it feels a part of the whole so much more now. In any case, I've found myself able to sit back and relax, which is something I simply had too much trouble with during the initial viewing. We all brought decades of exploratory thoughts, imagined scenarios, desires, and expectations to this new chapter, and many of them were dashed along the way, but really that's our problem and in my opinion it's worth a revisit with those things off the table.

Re: What would a Season 4 be about?

Posted: Wed Feb 20, 2019 2:20 pm
by boske
Kudos to you Mr. Strawberry (glad to see you are taking calls! ;-)). I saw first three parts as the show was reran here in Europe on cable more than a year after it had ended, and at the time I knew I was to be tempted and I accepted the challenge. I saw first three parts and that was it. I knew what was coming next and did not feel compelled to continue, I moved on. Again, that would not be a material for this thread (there is a lot of material in that other thread sitting dormant there), some people liked it some people did not, that's it. I liked some parts a lot (part 3 overall, just like for Mordeen for example), but individually it is the motel scene just before Mr. C went to meet Jeffries, which reminded me of a live and colored Gustave Doré sketch, followed by that emotional piano scene with the Mitchums.

Anyway, looking back at it, and the number of things deduced about it, there is a certain structure to the show: first three or four parts, then last part or two, and the stuff in-between that is very elastic and can be stretched very thin (just like those red balloons that pop all over the place). That is one way of looking at it. Another equally, and also simultaneously, valid would be to view it as a photo mosaic, a portrait made up of tiny little pictures of different hues. If you look at it that way then you can see all those threads that lead nowhere (e.g. Red tossing a coin, Mr C. arm wrestling, floor sweeping, Andy waiting in the forest, etc.) as tiny images next to one another. They are not necessarily connected and have anything to do other than fill in a tiny square in a bigger image. As usual your mileage may vary. But yes, it'd be nice to see another season, hopefully L&F have a story in them.

Re: What would a Season 4 be about?

Posted: Wed Feb 20, 2019 3:24 pm
by Mordeen
Mr. Reindeer wrote:The anagram thing is also fascinating. It is worth noting that “Sonny Jim” is a name that has popped up repeatedly in Lynch’s work (in The Elephant Man and the online short Pierre and Sonny Jim), so it’s actually not that unusual a name (for him). And of course, Dougie is also a name that popped up in the original show and obviously tickles Frost. So Janey-E is the outlier in terms of weirdness (and I do believe that her name fits in with the “Dian-O,” “Dian-C,” etc. naming pattern that repeatedly pops up in various anagrams throughout the show, particularly as Janey-E is Diane’s sister).

I’m not sure that Cooper would use the word “my” to refer to Josie. Perhaps he’s conflating himself with Harry in his dreamstate because he felt such a bond to him? In any event, if it is purely a coincidence, it is a pretty wild one (and one that I think Lynch would love). Guess we may never know for sure.


You could easily swap Annie with Josie and have implied commas between the names:

My Annie (comma) Josie (comma) Judy - gone

Still, who knows but my hair stood on end when the letters fell into place.

- Mordeen

Re: What would a Season 4 be about?

Posted: Fri Feb 22, 2019 4:27 am
by boske
Back to mythology once more: Candie, Mandie, and Sandie are likely representing The Three Graces, where Candie is the eldest, Thalia, goddess of festivity (Conga line) and banquets ("Mitchum: Candie! Another piece of pie for our friend!", sandwiches).

"The three Kharites were depicted in classical art as naked women, holding hands and dancing in a circle.
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They were sometimes crowned with and held sprigs of myrtle.
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Re: What would a Season 4 be about?

Posted: Fri Feb 22, 2019 7:02 am
by Cappy
Wow, that's really interesting about the Three Graces + The Candy Trio. I originally wanted to try to think of Candy & Co. as being akin to The Three Fates (or Moirai), but there isn't much discernible connection between the two groups other than the fact that they are both trios.

Laura's death scene in FWWM always calls to mind Bernini's Ecstasy of St. Teresa. Even though the angel seems to appear as an answer to Ronnette's prayer, it's Laura that experiences a deep epiphany in it's presence.

Image

I think the sculpture suggests a largely erotic component to religious epiphany, which is absent from Laura Palmer's experience with the angel. But Ecstasy of St. Teresa is probably one of the best classical depictions of humanity shaken by an encounter with the sublime. It encapsulates how an individual can be overwhelmed by witnessing beauty and grandeur (stendhal syndrome being another name for this condition), which is what I think happens to Laura in the train car -- the experience of being in the presence of the angel is so profound that it momentarily overpowers Laura, signified by the bright light and music ceasing. But differing from St. Teresa, who seems to be bereft of all composure in the presence of the otherworldly, Laura is able to derive something of a grace and composure from the encounter, taking the ring and facing her fate.

Re: What would a Season 4 be about?

Posted: Fri Feb 22, 2019 7:12 am
by boske
Cappy wrote:Wow, that's really interesting about the Three Graces + The Candy Trio. I originally wanted to try to think of Candy & Co. as being akin to The Three Fates (or Moirai), but there isn't much discernible connection between the two groups other than the fact that they are both trios.

I was actually in the same boat, thought it was The Three Fates, or fairies of the Sleeping Beauty fable, and that Cooper was in this deadly sleep, but things did not add up. So, he (Cooper) is still sleeping (that must have been the Mr. C trap), but these are then three graces instead. Which could explain Candie's talk of "people on the streets and cars being everywhere", it may have been some festivity she was overlooking.

Cappy wrote:Laura's death scene in FWWM always calls to mind Bernini's Ecstasy of St. Teresa. Even though the angel seems to appear as an answer to Ronnette's prayer, it's Laura that experiences a deep epiphany in it's presence.

Yes, agreed.

Re: What would a Season 4 be about?

Posted: Fri Feb 22, 2019 7:17 am
by Mordeen
Three Fuscos

Three Alberts

The Three Socket

Lynch loves him some numerology.

- Mordeen