Has there been an email campaign to Criterion about FWWM?

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Hank_Jennings
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Has there been an email campaign to Criterion about FWWM?

Postby Hank_Jennings » Wed Sep 10, 2008 11:12 pm

I spoke to a few people at this years festival about emailing Criterion, & personally, I think its the best chance there is to get these deleted scenes released. I've mentioned Criterion on the IMDb board for FWWM, & someone else has emailed them, & I just did then. Obviously, more people should email them expressing their interest, so they've got a reason to look into it.

I don't know if anyone else has tried this, but I still think its worth a shot to see what happens. I think they'd do it, but as I just said, they need more people to convince them to look into it. The film also needs a better transfer as well to be honest. The New Line one is cropped, & the dialogue in the Pink Room scene has been turned up, which makes the forced subtitles useless. Although the MK2 transfer looks excellent, I do think the New Line one does look a tad better in terms of colours, even though its got its problems. Not to mention, a good quality documentary with cast/crew interviews is needed as well. Anyone who watched that cynical, badly made piece of crap on the New Line DVD will agree.

Anyway, I do think its worth a shot, & if anyone wants to email Criterion, here's their email

suggestions@criterion.com
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Pete Martell
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Re: Has there been an email campaign to Criterion about FWWM?

Postby Pete Martell » Thu Sep 11, 2008 5:35 am

Criterion won't invest such a large sum of money on FWWM.Actually,they never make such an extensive restoration and don't assemble or create such huge scale productions.I am perfectly sure that New Line won't give away the deleted scenes after all this fuss and the money needed to get them done.
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Re: Has there been an email campaign to Criterion about FWWM?

Postby dugpa » Thu Sep 11, 2008 1:27 pm

I've thought of this as well but the big problem is not only would they have to get the US distribution rights (which are currently owned by New Line until 2017) but they would also have to acquire the rights to the Deleted Scenes which are owned by Mk2. It is a shame as MK2 did a lot of groundwork with Lynch and a DVD with Deleted Scenes almost happened in 2007. Not sure if Criterion would go for it with all the trouble it would be.

Apparently there are still unresolved legal issues between Lynch and MK2. As Lynch said in one of his Q&A sessions in the UK, the ball is in MK2's court. From what I can tell there has not been any movement on their side. Any emails I have sent them regarding inquiries on this, I am no longer getting a response on.

By the way, you should try contacting John Viola on the FWWM Fight website to see what he thinks about adding Crfiterion to the mix....

Conceivably, I would guess that Criterion could always opt to license only the Deleted Scenes and package that with a documentary (which MK2 is currently sitting on) and release it. This would cut the costs of having to acquire rights to US distribution for the film. Then again, Lynch could do this as well much easier as it would be a huge seller that he could reap all the profits off of. I noticed that there are almost 7000 signatures on the online petition.

I can't remmeber where I read it but I once read somewhere that a single post or signature online represents likely what 30 people who did not post or sign would consider supporting. (It was something like that)

So assume 7000 * 30 would equal 210,000 potential sales, to me it would make perfect Business sense to do so. Hopefully, someone at some point will come to realize this...

Just my 2 cents...

-B
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Brad D
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Re: Has there been an email campaign to Criterion about FWWM?

Postby Brad D » Thu Sep 11, 2008 4:27 pm

i give up. this will never happen.
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They-Shot-Waldo!
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Re: Has there been an email campaign to Criterion about FWWM?

Postby They-Shot-Waldo! » Sat Sep 13, 2008 10:45 am

Personally, I think the campaign should be similiar to what they did to see Richard Donner's Superman II - everyone e-mail the proper parties on the same date, at the same time, and see what happens. All it takes is a little organization amongst the troops.
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Re: Has there been an email campaign to Criterion about FWWM?

Postby dugpa » Sun Sep 14, 2008 12:41 pm

Brad D wrote:i give up. this will never happen.


Don't give up hope. :) I can confirm that the email campaign a few years back got MK2 back in discussions with Lynch and this nearly happened in 2007. It was so close that MK2 even commissioned a documentary to be made. I can also confirm that the documentary was shot.

It's really a shame but as I mentioned a lot of footwork has already been done. It's only a matter of getting the guys at MK2 to get off their asses and work through the legal issues they claim are holding this up.

They-Shot-Waldo! brings up a good point. However, it's all about figuring out the right timing and getting the right parties interested.

-B
skawitch
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Re: Has there been an email campaign to Criterion about FWWM?

Postby skawitch » Thu Nov 06, 2008 8:42 am

An e-mail campaign would definitely be a great idea, it most certainly couldn't hurt. Between the registered users on dugpa, the FWWM myspace page & petition page, could they correlate the users e-mails and contact them to get a mail out? On top of this there must be a load of websites that are sympathetic to the cause... I post on the SFX forum and there's a number of TP/Lynch fans on there and I'm sure places like Little White Lies film magazine would be interested. Hell we could even try hitting up places like AICN for support?
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underthefan
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Re: Has there been an email campaign to Criterion about FWWM?

Postby underthefan » Thu Nov 06, 2008 11:11 am

dugpa wrote:I've thought of this as well but the big problem is not only would they have to get the US distribution rights (which are currently owned by New Line until 2017) but they would also have to acquire the rights to the Deleted Scenes which are owned by Mk2. It is a shame as MK2 did a lot of groundwork with Lynch and a DVD with Deleted Scenes almost happened in 2007. Not sure if Criterion would go for it with all the trouble it would be.

Apparently there are still unresolved legal issues between Lynch and MK2. As Lynch said in one of his Q&A sessions in the UK, the ball is in MK2's court. From what I can tell there has not been any movement on their side. Any emails I have sent them regarding inquiries on this, I am no longer getting a response on.

By the way, you should try contacting John Viola on the FWWM Fight website to see what he thinks about adding Crfiterion to the mix....

Conceivably, I would guess that Criterion could always opt to license only the Deleted Scenes and package that with a documentary (which MK2 is currently sitting on) and release it. This would cut the costs of having to acquire rights to US distribution for the film. Then again, Lynch could do this as well much easier as it would be a huge seller that he could reap all the profits off of. I noticed that there are almost 7000 signatures on the online petition.

I can't remmeber where I read it but I once read somewhere that a single post or signature online represents likely what 30 people who did not post or sign would consider supporting. (It was something like that)

So assume 7000 * 30 would equal 210,000 potential sales, to me it would make perfect Business sense to do so. Hopefully, someone at some point will come to realize this...

Just my 2 cents...

-B



I think Brian makes all good points here. I may be wrong, but I'm thinking (especially after this Lime Green box set and WAH deleted scenes), that our best bet may be to get Lynch to buy off the rights for the deleted scenes and the documentary from MK2 and release it with Absurda. There is plenty of material right there to warrant a self-sufficient release, even without the film included. In this way, Lynch himself can do whatever he wants with the deleted scenes - mix them or release them in raw condition. And I bet this would be a spectacular release!

I'm curious to hear your thoughts about this. How would we go about this?
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Pete Martell
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Re: Has there been an email campaign to Criterion about FWWM?

Postby Pete Martell » Thu Nov 06, 2008 11:15 am

There are many forums out there interested in the cause.I think that the people at criterionforum.org would be really positive.But the best way to make sure the deleted scenes get a release,is buying the Lime Green set. :roll:
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WaveCrest
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Re: Has there been an email campaign to Criterion about FWWM?

Postby WaveCrest » Sat Jan 24, 2009 11:14 am

I've just sent an email to Criterion, after reading the first few posts (including the one with the Criterion contact email link) and have been as positive as I can, including some of the things I'd like to see on the DVD - all cut footage and deleted scenes and a cleaned up picture with the correct widescreen ratio.

I did email Mk2 a few years ago and I think I added my name to the petition. Would it hurt to add my name again, just in case I didn't do it before?
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Mikeindustry
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Re: Has there been an email campaign to Criterion about FWWM?

Postby Mikeindustry » Sat Jan 24, 2009 5:02 pm

my 2 cents:

I've e-mailed Criterion with a number of suggestions over the years, and always got the same "go climb your thumb" reply.

Has anyone ever gotten anything other from them?

It's a shame, as I know a few people who work for Criterion/Janus, and they're all good people - I'm guessing it's just a matter of being flooded with e-mails from film-nerds about a myriad of films they will never get around to considering...

(By the way - my thoughts? Other than Lynch's stuff? True Stories and Macbeth - which Criterion did a beautiful LD of back in the day. I used to write them about Malcolm X, but eventually WB put out a decent 2 disc ed, so, Criterion is off the hook on that one.)
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Re: Has there been an email campaign to Criterion about FWWM?

Postby John Neff » Sun Jan 25, 2009 12:30 am

Well, I don't know the legal issues, but I do know the technical issues. Some years ago, when we were getting ready to do the 5.1 mix for the New Line DVD, David got all the workprint (35mm positive) and identified either 17 or 19 scenes for inclusion as deleted scenes. I saw most of them on the KEM movie editor at the Editorial office. Brian Johnson was laying them up and identifying them. The problem came when Dave insisted that New Line pay for complete post production of the scenes, so that they would live in the same world as the movie. How many of you have seen 'deleted scenes' that were nothing more than Avid video editor lo-res output with no more than location production sound? It's terrible, and it takes the magic of the movie away. Well, the cost to properly post was about half of what it would take to post a whole film, and they refused.
Now, if Dave got the rights somehow, he has (or had) the film, and he owns the studio, so he could make the scenes what he wanted them to be - IF HE GOT THE DISTRIBUTION RIGHTS! The old way, he wasn't even paid for participation in the DVD making process, so he certainly wouldn't foot the cost himself.
I think if you folks really want the FWWM deleted scenes, what you need to do is mount a campaign for New Line or WHOEVER has the rights, to relinquish them to David, so he can make it what he wants it to be, without interference, and so that HE can release the DVD, to recoup his costs. I won't mention dollars, but it's a huge amount to finish those scenes. That's why no one has done it!
Forget Criterion, forget New Line (they've been sold anyway), forget MK2. Those scenarios will never happen.
Work to get Dave the rights, and then I think you'll see something happen!
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yvanehtnioj1214
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Re: Has there been an email campaign to Criterion about FWWM?

Postby yvanehtnioj1214 » Sun Jan 25, 2009 1:17 pm

Good advice John Neff, but do you think an email campaign would really get MK2 to give the rights to David? It seems to me that it's up to David to call up MK2 and ask for the rights and the best we can do is continue to email and petition MK2 so they'd be more open to any deal involving the release of the deleted scenes. I think the only way to get the rights sold to David is to petition David himself.
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Mikeindustry
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Re: Has there been an email campaign to Criterion about FWWM?

Postby Mikeindustry » Sun Jan 25, 2009 3:01 pm

Wait, Wait, Mr Neff, that's great advice; do you mind helping us with one more step on that road:

What do we need to do to help Mr Lynch get those rights? Who do we contact?

(I feel like Cooper asking the Giant for help now!)
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Re: Has there been an email campaign to Criterion about FWWM?

Postby dugpa » Sun Jan 25, 2009 4:09 pm

Thanks John for the insight. MK2 actually owns the rights to all of the deleted footage as well as the film itself. They accquired it all when they accquired Ciby 2000 several years back. What absolutely breaks my heart is that back in 2000 when New Line was looking at options to do the Deleted Scenes they asked MK2 to help by sharing costs of the proper restoration. At the time MK2 was not interested. It was only after New Line released the DVD without the Deleted Scenes that fans found out who owned the rights and pounded MK2 with letters and emails that MK2 had realized the potential for profitting and they decided to pursue putting the Deleted Scenes out themselves. The idea of sharing the production costs with New Line came up again from MK2's side but at that point New Line were no longer interested.

I can confirm that MK2 almost struck a deal with Lynch in 2007 but hit another wall and have since put the project on hold.

Now with Lynch taking an interest in releasing his films with the Lime Green Box set, the best chance we have is as John said for Lynch to put the Deleted Scenes out himself.

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