Has there been an email campaign to Criterion about FWWM?

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Mikeindustry
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Re: Has there been an email campaign to Criterion about FWWM?

Postby Mikeindustry » Sun Jan 25, 2009 5:16 pm

I like it, Dugpa.

But... I don't know where to go from here. Who do we contact? Who do we talk to?
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Re: Has there been an email campaign to Criterion about FWWM?

Postby dugpa » Sun Jan 25, 2009 5:59 pm

Good question. I've bugged the hell out of MK2, New Line, and even Absurda but have never gotten much of a response. I'm most interested by the fact that in the recent years, Lynch has changed his mind on how he views the release of Deleted Scenes as he has given the OK to release Twin Peaks TV Series and Wild at Heart Deleted Scenes that were in poor condition. Grnated it is probably that old VHS and workprints were all that has survived over the years, whereas Lynch has all the original negatives to the FWWM Deleted Scenes.

Lynch has much to gain but yet it doesn't seem to be a priority. What gets me is that there are worldwide petitions for the FWWM Deleted Scenes with over 10,000 signatures which to me spells certain profitability whereas I have never seen any real demand for the TV Series or Wild at Heart Deleted Scenes. Granted, sure it was amazing to see the TV Series and Wild at Heart Deleted Scenes but in comparison, many people on several boards have posted that they would undoubtedly and gladly pay the hefty price tag of the Lime Green Box set would it have included the FWWM Deleted Scenes.

To be honest, Lynch going the extra mile to acquire rights to distribute his older films plus his releasing of the Season 2 and FWWM Twin Peaks music is something that if you would have asked me a few years back, I would have never thought Lynch would have done this.

What really sucks is that fans have been petitioning for these scenes for years. Since 1992, when Engels had announced at the FWWM premiere that he and Lynch were considering a possible extended version release on Laserdisc, fans petitioned and sent letters to New Line, Image Entertainment, and even Video Watchdog magazine. Then the fans did another round of sending letters and emails to New Line followed by even another round of sending letters and emails to MK2. New Line gets acquired by Warner Bros. and all of the people working for New Line that were involved in the initial FWWM DVD and Deleted Scene production are no longer with the company. I guess what I'm trying to say is that the fans have sent probably hundreds of thousands of letters and emails since 1992 and because of the rights changing hands so many these efforts have been lost or forgotten and any new push to see this happen has to now start from scratch.

The former guys at New Line literally told me that they would jump at the chance of releasing the Deleted Scenes in the US if MK2 were to cut a deal with Lynch to complete them.

The saddest thing is that many fans are sick and tired of sending their support over the years as their requests have not been answered.

What we really need is someone with connections in the industry to take a hold and champion this. My best advice is as fans, we can only help by keeping the dream alive, getting the word out, and supporting Lynch in his releases. I've done so on the site and in my recent articles on the Deleted Scenes which I'm hoping at the very least will help spread awareness. Past that, I'm at a loss for ideas.

One thing I have realized over the years is that FWWM has somewhat polarized Twin Peaks fans. The casual fan who didn't like FWWM is very unlikely to read the entire FWWM shooting script to ever find out how amazing some of these scenes actually are and furthermore how much of the tone of the TV Series were originally planned on being in the film. The writing of this film in my opinion is as good if not better than any the best Twin Peaks Episodes, including the Pilot. My hope at the very least is that through some of the articles I've recently published, even the casual fan will take a gander and realize that there is some really amazing stuff in there that absolutely needs to be released.

The other thing that makes me really sad is that over the years we have lost so many of the people that played these roles that we cherish so much. Frank Silva, Jack Nance, Don Davis, and Ed Wright. For no other reason seeing them reprise their beloved roles one last time would be absolutely magical.

-B
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Re: Has there been an email campaign to Criterion about FWWM?

Postby D0ppelgangerDale » Sun Jan 25, 2009 6:21 pm

dugpa wrote:One thing I have realized over the years is that FWWM has somewhat polarized Twin Peaks fans. The casual fan who didn't like FWWM is very unlikely to read the entire FWWM shooting script to ever find out how amazing some of these scenes actually are and furthermore how much of the tone of the TV Series were originally planned on being in the film. The writing of this film in my opinion is as good if not better than any the best Twin Peaks Episodes, including the Pilot...


It sounds like fans are requesting the deleted scenes as a bonus feature. Wouldn't a Director's Cut of the film be ideal? Of course, it'd be nice to see the scenes that weren't incorporated into the Director's cut as a bonus feature.
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Re: Has there been an email campaign to Criterion about FWWM?

Postby dugpa » Sun Jan 25, 2009 7:55 pm

The theatrical version is the Directors Cut. Back in 92 Lynch talked about an extended cut but has always maintained that the theatrical version is and will always be the Director cut as he had final cut. It was only in 2000 that Lynch decided rather than doing an extended version, he would only release the scenes as separate self contained scenes.
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Re: Has there been an email campaign to Criterion about FWWM?

Postby D0ppelgangerDale » Sun Jan 25, 2009 10:56 pm

Thanks for the information. I personally would prefer an extended cut, but it's Lynch's film.
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Re: Has there been an email campaign to Criterion about FWWM?

Postby Mikeindustry » Mon Jan 26, 2009 12:16 am

Dale - I hear you in one sense - wouldn't it be great to see the whole film as written in the shooting script?

But having said that, I get Lynch's logic - the fact of the matter is, the scenes cut don't fit the mood of the film. The film exists perfectly as is; the extra scenes are extra - they are a bonus - a continuation for fans of the show, but they detract from the film of Fire Walk With Me as a whole artistic thing, so, in other words, yes, I think it better they be released separately.

Having said that, Thanks, Dugpa, for the post. I'm one of the many who has written over and over over the years, and with Mr Neff's latest call to arms, I was ready to write again, but...

I guess we need a game plan here.

Thanks for keeping the dream alive, Dugpa.
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Re: Has there been an email campaign to Criterion about FWWM?

Postby DigitalGhost » Mon Jan 26, 2009 1:44 am

dugpa wrote:Lynch has much to gain but yet it doesn't seem to be a priority. What gets me is that there are worldwide petitions for the FWWM Deleted Scenes with over 10,000 signatures which to me spells certain profitability whereas I have never seen any real demand for the TV Series or Wild at Heart Deleted Scenes. Granted, sure it was amazing to see the TV Series and Wild at Heart Deleted Scenes but in comparison, many people on several boards have posted that they would undoubtedly and gladly pay the hefty price tag of the Lime Green Box set would it have included the FWWM Deleted Scenes.

To be honest, Lynch going the extra mile to acquire rights to distribute his older films plus his releasing of the Season 2 and FWWM Twin Peaks music is something that if you would have asked me a few years back, I would have never thought Lynch would have done this.

What really sucks is that fans have been petitioning for these scenes for years. Since 1992, when Engels had announced at the FWWM premiere that he and Lynch were considering a possible extended version release on Laserdisc, fans petitioned and sent letters to New Line, Image Entertainment, and even Video Watchdog magazine. Then the fans did another round of sending letters and emails to New Line followed by even another round of sending letters and emails to MK2. New Line gets acquired by Warner Bros. and all of the people working for New Line that were involved in the initial FWWM DVD and Deleted Scene production are no longer with the company. I guess what I'm trying to say is that the fans have sent probably hundreds of thousands of letters and emails since 1992 and because of the rights changing hands so many these efforts have been lost or forgotten and any new push to see this happen has to now start from scratch.

The saddest thing is that many fans are sick and tired of sending their support over the years as their requests have not been answered.

One thing I have realized over the years is that FWWM has somewhat polarized Twin Peaks fans. The casual fan who didn't like FWWM is very unlikely to read the entire FWWM shooting script to ever find out how amazing some of these scenes actually are and furthermore how much of the tone of the TV Series were originally planned on being in the film. The writing of this film in my opinion is as good if not better than any the best Twin Peaks Episodes, including the Pilot. My hope at the very least is that through some of the articles I've recently published, even the casual fan will take a gander and realize that there is some really amazing stuff in there that absolutely needs to be released.

The other thing that makes me really sad is that over the years we have lost so many of the people that played these roles that we cherish so much. Frank Silva, Jack Nance, Don Davis, and Ed Wright. For no other reason seeing them reprise their beloved roles one last time would be absolutely magical.

-B


They're all really good points Dugpa. I think DL is the best - and probably the only - person who can champion the deleted scenes now. He has a loyal fanbase who've loved Fire Walk With Me since it was released, and buy the box sets and endless DVD reissues without complaining, but I'm starting to suspect it's a one way thing. I struggle to understand how MK2 are that unreasonable. And I'd expect MK2 and New Line to ignore emails from fans, but not Absurda. It seems to me like email campaigns get people talking, only for negotiations to invariably break down again. Instead of endless petitions maybe DL and MK2 just need a few counselling sessions?

If DL owning the rights to the deleted scenes is the best way to get them released he needs to negotiate to buy them. The people who've bought the Lime Green Set have done more to make it viable than any number of petitions and begging letters. At the end of the day money is power because money is the only reason they'll ever be released. MK2 aren't hanging on the them out of spite. They want money.

Ultimately the best way to get through to a company is to boycott their products. Negative publicity always works. We could cover the internet in MK2 Stole My Deleted Scenes! banners. But it's hardly McDonald's chopping down rainforests to graze their cattle...
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Re: Has there been an email campaign to Criterion about FWWM?

Postby Mikeindustry » Mon Jan 26, 2009 8:37 am

Well... if money talks... it's that, or we take up a collection, you know?

I'm not kidding. Like, what if we all started raising funds - we'd never come close enough to what they want, but it would be a dent in the ammount - not just us here on Dugpa or the internet Lynch sites, but put up a collection jar at places of interest - your town's art-house theatres. Big arty-video stores like LeVideo in San Francisco or Scarecrow in Seattle. Amoeba in any of thier three locations, etc. Raise money.

And send it, along with the petitions, to Lynch and MK2. That sort of thing.
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Re: Has there been an email campaign to Criterion about FWWM?

Postby DigitalGhost » Mon Jan 26, 2009 8:50 am

I've considered that too. I'd happily contribute. How much do you think it would take to persuade MK2 to part with the deleted scenes?
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Re: Has there been an email campaign to Criterion about FWWM?

Postby Mikeindustry » Mon Jan 26, 2009 8:58 am

and wait - let me clarify my point before I head off to work - (this'll be quick, I'm already late) - without knowing the details of the negotiations, someone has unrealistic expectations of how much money these scenes will make.

I grant you, there are hundreds of thousands of petition signers out there, myself and most of us among them, but at the end of the day, this is not going to move DVDs off the shelf like it's Wall-E or The Dark Knight. It's a niche at best.

I was reading Empire magazine last night, and sadly, I let the waitress at the diner keep it (she liked the Hugh Jackman cover) but it had a quote (why I wish I had kept it - I'm about to murder the quote) something along the lines of..."The Dark Knight was dark, arty and thoughtfull, yet that's not why it made billions - if that were the case, David Lynch's films would all be making billions"

Which stuck in my head. We love the guy, but we should remember, he's got a niche audience.

So did the comic fans who got that other cut of Superman 2 put out I suppose, so it can be done, but we have to be realistic.

So, my point is, yes, we should put our money where our mouth is - we should collect money and present it as part of the petition barganing chip. But in the end, remember, even here, on a David Lynch Electrical Resource, there were a lot of voices that didn't really want the Lime Green set. The scenes are priceless to us, but not worth much to the general public...

Which brings this full circle I suppose - it's ripe picking for Criterion, isn't it? Which man woman or child at the multiplex had even heard of something like Ace in the Hole, or White Dog, and yet, thanks to Criterion, film fans like me were first in line to buy the DVDs when they came out.

All things must be considered...
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Re: Has there been an email campaign to Criterion about FWWM?

Postby yvanehtnioj1214 » Mon Jan 26, 2009 10:11 am

dugpa wrote:The writing of this film in my opinion is as good if not better than any the best Twin Peaks Episodes, including the Pilot. My hope at the very least is that through some of the articles I've recently published, even the casual fan will take a gander and realize that there is some really amazing stuff in there that absolutely needs to be released.


You got that right, rarely have I actually laughed while reading a script (Rosenfield's lines in the deleted scenes are pure gold!).

The money idea sounds pretty good and if we were to send it to David, I think it would be the ultimate proof of how much we want the deleted scenes released. Unfortunately, as it was said before, this is a niche market and, while I think people would buy the DVD, I doubt many would put down money to get scenes from a movie on a DVD they'd end up spending more money on especially in this economy and with so many charities worthy of donations. I know this sounds a lot like what we've been doing and I'm sure this has been suggested before, but if we could get all 10,000+ petition signers to send emails to MK2 on the same day or every day for a week it would definitely send a strong message.
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Re: Has there been an email campaign to Criterion about FWWM?

Postby Mikeindustry » Mon Jan 26, 2009 12:48 pm

It couldn't hurt!
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Re: Has there been an email campaign to Criterion about FWWM?

Postby dugpa » Mon Feb 02, 2009 7:59 pm

All really good points. My gut is that at this point, there are really only likely possible scenarios.

Scenario 1: MK2 and Lynch reach an agreement. MK2 then puts the Deleted Scenes out in France followed by licensing it to other Distributors (New Line/Warner Bros., Paramount for German Distribution, etc.)

Scenario 2: Lynch acquires rights and US distribution and releases the film and Deleted Scenes in a box set similar to the Lime Green Box Set.

Scenario 3: Someone with ties to the industry champions the release and brokers a deal with New Line/Warners and MK2 to share costs and release in both the US and France with other territories to license the scenes and and release subsequently.


One thought I have had recently is that if Lynch was actively trying to acquire the rights, the continued email campaigns to MK2 could prompt MK2 to raise their price to license the scenes to Lynch thus leaving us where we are at today.

It sure would be nice to have some insight but to be honest, MK2 stopped feeding me any solid information a few years back. They were pretty gung ho on putting them out until apparently talks with Lynch were "place on hold".

So I guess we're back to the good old "wait and see".
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Re: Has there been an email campaign to Criterion about FWWM?

Postby yvanehtnioj1214 » Tue Feb 03, 2009 3:04 am

dugpa wrote:One thought I have had recently is that if Lynch was actively trying to acquire the rights, the continued email campaigns to MK2 could prompt MK2 to raise their price to license the scenes to Lynch thus leaving us where we are at today.


Hmm, interesting thought. I guess we really are at a crossroads here. Have you expressed this to the guy(s) running the email campaign (assuming it's not you)?
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Re: Has there been an email campaign to Criterion about FWWM?

Postby dugpa » Tue Feb 03, 2009 8:17 am

I've discussed this to John V (fwwmfight). However, since one can never be sure, better to show MK2 support than not in the case that they finish what they started with their negotiations.

-B

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