TWIN PEAKS 3D

General discussion on Twin Peaks not related to the series, film, books, music, photos, or collectors merchandise.

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thegreatnorthern
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TWIN PEAKS 3D

Post by thegreatnorthern »

I've got good news, now let me start by saying I don't know if, and/or when, my beloved twin peaks will ever been commercially released in 3d let alone Bluray or HD, but until then I have been experimenting with re-encoding all of the gold box and fwwm to a higher resolution video file, resulting in HD 1080p with some additional video software fine tuning, the results have been surprisingly impressive. Now in addition to "HDing" all episodes, and because I have fwwm at 1080p HD already, I have been experimenting with a 3d conversion of twin peaks, and fwwm - After converting file type with Handbrake, I recently used DVDFab's 3d conversion features, that allow you to create anaglyph, SBS, and other 3d file conversion styles - and found some unexpected and surprising results! First, you should know that the old 3D ( commonly recognized by red and blue(cyan) offset images ) is known as anaglyph 3D, and another style that I am referring to here is newer and called Chromadepth 3D, more common with animation and higher contrast, higher chroma color video and images. Because you can watch any movie/video without altering it, simply by wearing chromadepth glasses - it is interesting to see that there are alot of "accidentally" 3D movies already out there, some animated features fit this description, in addition to many others..Personally I don't believe in accidents, and I think fwwm is a masterpiece~
Without getting too technically complicated, here are my 3D findings thus far :

The anaglyph style appears practically colorless and while creating some visual depth, was not as effective for me, below are some screenshots.
However, the "Chromadepth" was far more interesting ! When I tweaked the VLC player's color effects, by simply increasing the intensity of the color saturation and made other small adj with the Chromadepth glasses on, the results were very very surprising, especially with fwwm. Especially at the very beginning, just watching the blue fuzzy tv background fall back and away while the credits appear to come right out at you! But I don't want to give away all the surprises, you will have to see for yourself ;) At times the visual effect is subtle and just enough, other times it is very surprising !
You see, the chromadepth is effective at creating alot of visual depth by creating strong visual seperation between colors, i.e. more dimensional seperation, and watching fwwm in a new way after all these years was really surprising and fun, and worth a try for any fan like me !
I purchased a 4 pack of "Chromadepth" glasses at walmart for $4, that's a buck a pair, and you can find anaglyph 3D glasses anywhere, they are more common.
You don't have to alter/edit/convert fwwm to see what I mean, simply find a pair of "Chromadepth" 3D glasses and see for yourself ~

below are chromadepth 3d glasses
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below are anaglyph 3d glasses ( red / cyan )
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below, watch fwwm with chromadepth 3D glasses
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Twin peaks with chromadepth 3D glasses
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Twin peaks with anaglyph 3Dd glasses
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Fire
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Re: TWIN PEAKS 3D

Post by Fire »

Oh wow, you are really knowledgeable greatnorthern! I definitely have to try the chromadepth glasses, especially since I have purposefully held off from watching Twin Peaks and Fire Walk With Me for a while to kinda freshen up the experience.

And what a way to re-watch it! Thanks for the info.
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dugpa
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TWIN PEAKS 3D

Post by dugpa »

Very great information. I have recently considered purchasing a 3D tv and immediately wondered what it would look like watching Twin Peaks through it.

My father in-law owns one and some of the 2D to 3D conversions were pretty impressive. It could prove to be a very interesting experience.

Also something I was doing last night when trying to capture screenshots from FWWM from the Blu-ray was just playing it in slow motion on VLC. If I had more time on my hands I would rewatch the entire movie in slow motion. You can pick up all kinds of detail!
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dugpa
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Re: TWIN PEAKS 3D

Post by dugpa »

Also, I was looking at different articles on 2D to 3D conversions and found this ne:

http://www.maximumpc.com/article/howtos ... _movies_3d

Scroll down to see what the author decided to convert and use as his example images...

:)
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thegreatnorthern
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Re: TWIN PEAKS 3D

Post by thegreatnorthern »

Nice find dugpa! I have been wondering for years when someone would take a look at twin peaks/fwwm in 3D -
I have used AVS for video editting but not avisynth, and I use vlc player which is a more open, broader file extension accepting video media player, than wmp.
Also, dvdfab and powerdvd10-12 make a high quality, faster, easier 3D conversion

This article is from 2010 so newer more robust software has been released and if you are new to converting file extensions, compressing files, or rendering 2d video files to 3d, then I would recommend these instead ~
Next and this seems to be a big one, the 3D enthusiasts will quickly note that there is a truer 3d over alot of conversion methods, so then there's that.
The proprietary nvidia software and electronics can get expensive too, 2500-5000 just for the 3DTV

What I have been experimenting with, in addition to the traditional anaglyph 3D ( red and cyan ) is free to convert and the glasses are cheap,
But it's the Chromadepth glasses that are far more impressive to me, the contrasting colors create more spacial depth,
Neither of these methods require a new TV or Computer, Screen, anything like that, personally I would stray from the
LCD Active Shutter Glasses, The newest 3DTV's, and stay behind the curve until 3D catches up commercially ~
Besides, most of the software can be found for free, and I prefer just connecting the laptop to a projector
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jlyon1515
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Re: TWIN PEAKS 3D

Post by jlyon1515 »

Ok, for anyone who does graphic work, just you saying you "upconverted" the video almost made me sad. Right away, upconverting any image makes it look worse. Why not at least work from the original sized video, instead? That way less blurring and anomalies exist (because you introduce them by upscaling). And remember, there is a 720p version of Twin Peaks on iTunes, you should definitely work from that because it is already HD.

Though software and TVs can try to convert 2D to 3D, it will always pale in comparison to even the most sloppy post-converted 3D movies (I'm talking about Clash of the Titans here, which everyone said the 3D was horrible in... and yet it will look better than what the algorithms are doing).

A disclaimer before I get further into my comments. I'm far from an expert on 3D, though I would consider myself quite knowledgeable. I have sitting right here beside me at work 3 pairs of anaglyph glasses (traditional red/cyan, Colorcode amber/blue, and "Trioscopics" green/magenta. These are from the 3D Michael Jackson Tribute at the 2010 Grammys, the 2009 Superbowl Monsters vs Aliens and Sobe commercials (and the Chuck episode the next day) which gives the best color reproduction, and the Coraline DVD, respectively. And as you'll see later, I have done some amateur 3D work in the past.

As for ChromaDepth, all it does it make red close to the screen and blue/purple furthest back. That's all that does. Here's an excellent example of the Toy Story 3D app that was made and came with a pair of ChromaDepth:
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And here's another few from random sites:
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You mentioned that traditional red/cyan anaglyph looked colorless, and you definitely get a reduction of color with any of the anaglyph color options, even more so if it is "optimized." The optimization really helps reduce retinal rivalry though (this happens if you have, for example, red/cyan glasses, and there is red in the photo. Here's a site that has some great examples (scroll down to the version with the guy in the red shirt):
http://3dtv.at/Knowhow/AnaglyphComparison_en.aspx

But with anaglyph (at least true analgyph, not a tv trying to fake it), you actually get true 3D of an image. With ChromaDepth, you do get great color, but to have it look right, it needs to look like that Toy Story image. So for example, you photo of Hawk in the blue room, he is actually further back in the image that the yellow/red wall behind him... so you have an inverted 3D image. So that's no good, even if the colors are right. I mean, look at your picture of Lil. Yes, the red pops right out, and the yellow plane is behind her, but the blue rose (because it's blue) looks like she has a hole in her chest.

That all being said, yes, everything you are doing makes it 3D, stuff is coming out, and stuff is going in, but it's all sort of random computer approximations, and because one knows the content, they can randomly trick their mind and say it's "sort of" working. :)

An optimized anaglyph of Jacoby that I made by hand from a flat image of him and a depthmap:
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And here's the depthmap that one uses to make the above picture 3D:
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This is what they do for post-converted 3D movies... they make an animated depthmap where white is foreground and black is background, and they use that with the flat footage to make it 3D (usually in theaters it is polarized 3D though, not anaglyph or chromadepth (which really isn't used much at all).

Finally, one little treat... I took some 3D footage a few years back at the Twin Peaks Fest. It's not an optimized anaglyph though, so you will see some retinal rivalry. It's also not perfect because my camera in the car shakes a bit... there are some cool sections though.
NOTE: You need red/cyan glasses to see this in 3D, and the file is 75 megs.
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/2136603/3D.mp4
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kafard
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TWIN PEAKS 3D

Post by kafard »

Euh... 720p is not HD, it's the definition of a classic DVD... We can talk about HD when the video had 1280p.
This an interesting conversation, to watch Twin Peaks in 3D must be a "WoW bob WoW" experience (in active 3D.)
Sorry for the interruption...,
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jlyon1515
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Re: TWIN PEAKS 3D

Post by jlyon1515 »

kafard wrote:Euh... 720p is not HD, it's the definition of a classic DVD... We can talk about HD when the video had 1280p.
I'm sorry, but you are completely wrong. 720p is absolutely HD. Blu-ray discs are 720p, 1080i, or 1080p. You need to relook up your standards, you are mistakenly thinking about HORIZONTAL resolution, when the standards go by VERTICAL resolution/lines. 720p is a standard for high definition and it's 1280 pixels wide x 720 pixels tall.

There is no such standard as 1280p.

A DVD is 480i (as in 480 vertical lines, and the I means interlaced fields). Here's a link to help you understand:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High-definition_television
Last edited by jlyon1515 on Tue Mar 06, 2012 8:58 am, edited 1 time in total.
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kafard
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TWIN PEAKS 3D

Post by kafard »

Yes, you are correct, I was thinking "horizontal". Forget what I said :-D
A french little guy named : Dam.
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jlyon1515
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Re: TWIN PEAKS 3D

Post by jlyon1515 »

What, no one liked my Jacoby in 3D?
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The Double R
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Re: TWIN PEAKS 3D

Post by The Double R »

Will check later. I don't have 3D glasses in my Inspector Gadget suit :)
jlyon1515 wrote:What, no one liked my Jacoby in 3D?
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dugpa
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Re: TWIN PEAKS 3D

Post by dugpa »

jlyon1515 wrote:What, no one liked my Jacoby in 3D?
Don't have glasses as of yet. Hopefully soon.
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thegreatnorthern
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Re: TWIN PEAKS 3D

Post by thegreatnorthern »

just saw jacoby in 3d ! maybe he was on to something ..
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thegreatnorthern
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Re: TWIN PEAKS 3D

Post by thegreatnorthern »

Thanks for the insights jlyon, you know alot about the 3D world
I just watched your twin peaks fest video in 3D with anaglyph red/cyan glasses and it looked amazing !
I especially liked the slow motion trees going by just like I was looking out the car window - so amazing
Just wish you had a longer version or if you have the complete 3D video would you post it? Would love to watch the rest ..

also is this what you meant by anaglyph optimized? I noticed the optimized reduces rr but loses subtle color richness

opitmized anaglyph 3D
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color anaglyph 3d
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jlyon1515
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Re: TWIN PEAKS 3D

Post by jlyon1515 »

thegreatnorthern wrote:Thanks for the insights jlyon, you know alot about the 3D world
I just watched your twin peaks fest video in 3D with anaglyph red/cyan glasses and it looked amazing !
I especially liked the slow motion trees going by just like I was looking out the car window - so amazing
Just wish you had a longer version or if you have the complete 3D video would you post it? Would love to watch the rest ..

also is this what you meant by anaglyph optimized? I noticed the optimized reduces rr but loses subtle color richness
That's actually all that I filmed, unfortunately.

Comparing your two images, yes, that is sort of what I mean. But it looks like for your two images though, all you did was reduce the amount of red for the "optimized" one. Doing that just makes it look too cyan. True optimization is done by an algorithm, not just reducing red. The Cyan looks identical in both of your images. Am I right? In your normal one, see how if you're looking through just the cyan lense, you can see the red image slightly ghosted, especially near her head? That's what optimizing reduces as well as retinal rivalry where red and blue are in the same place and are just too contrasting.

The program I use is called StereoTracer, and it just has a setting for generating optimized anaglyphs or regular ones.
http://triaxes.com/products/stereotracer/
Last edited by jlyon1515 on Tue Mar 27, 2012 8:51 am, edited 1 time in total.
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