unanswered questions / mistakes / etc.

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Brie and Butter
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Re: unanswered questions / mistakes / etc.

Postby Brie and Butter » Wed Apr 24, 2013 2:56 pm

My two cents: Due to plot secrecy, etc., Ray Wise surely wasn't trying to seem like a possessed murderer in the couch scene, but you can still sense that something is wrong -- more than just a father grieving.

I'm OK with the idea of Leland wanting to beat down Jacoby if he got wind of Doc seeing Laura or overhearing/finding any of the tapes, and even stalking Leo (who, a few nights prior, he observed screwing his daughter). It's the Jacques murder sans ski mask that throws me, though.

This raises the question of when Leland was really Leland. It's obvious that Leland -- not Bob -- kills Jacques. And as he says during his death scene, he couldn't remember what happened whenever Bob took over, which I assume is why he didn't go after Jacques (or Leo, for that matter) sooner -- Bob saw what happened at the cabin, not Leland. (That discounts Leland having a reason to be with Leo in the woods, though.)

What about Teresa Banks? Before his death, Leland says "they made me kill that girl, Teresa" -- as if he was an innocent at the mercy of the evil spirits. We know that Teresa was trying to blackmail Leland, though, so why would Bob want her dead? In other words, who killed Teresa -- Bob or Leland? And if it was Bob, why, after being with Leland since he was a little boy, did Teresa's threat lead him to finally kill?
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Zachary
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Re: unanswered questions / mistakes / etc.

Postby Zachary » Wed Apr 24, 2013 6:18 pm

Brie and Butter wrote:What about Teresa Banks? Before his death, Leland says "they made me kill that girl, Teresa" -- as if he was an innocent at the mercy of the evil spirits. We know that Teresa was trying to blackmail Leland, though, so why would Bob want her dead? In other words, who killed Teresa -- Bob or Leland? And if it was Bob, why, after being with Leland since he was a little boy, did Teresa's threat lead him to finally kill?

That, to me, is one of the most annoying inconsistencies between the series and FWWM. The series would have us believe that Leland was simply a host to BOB, and was not really responsible for his own actions. FWWM sets up motives for Leland to kill Teresa and Laura, which absolutely makes more sense if FWWM were a standalone story, but it doesn't really reflect the explanation that was given in the series.
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Agent Sam Stanley
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Re: unanswered questions / mistakes / etc.

Postby Agent Sam Stanley » Wed Apr 24, 2013 7:46 pm

Brie and Butter wrote:My two cents: Due to plot secrecy, etc., Ray Wise surely wasn't trying to seem like a possessed murderer in the couch scene, but you can still sense that something is wrong -- more than just a father grieving.

I'm OK with the idea of Leland wanting to beat down Jacoby if he got wind of Doc seeing Laura or overhearing/finding any of the tapes, and even stalking Leo (who, a few nights prior, he observed screwing his daughter). It's the Jacques murder sans ski mask that throws me, though.

This raises the question of when Leland was really Leland. It's obvious that Leland -- not Bob -- kills Jacques. And as he says during his death scene, he couldn't remember what happened whenever Bob took over, which I assume is why he didn't go after Jacques (or Leo, for that matter) sooner -- Bob saw what happened at the cabin, not Leland. (That discounts Leland having a reason to be with Leo in the woods, though.)

What about Teresa Banks? Before his death, Leland says "they made me kill that girl, Teresa" -- as if he was an innocent at the mercy of the evil spirits. We know that Teresa was trying to blackmail Leland, though, so why would Bob want her dead? In other words, who killed Teresa -- Bob or Leland? And if it was Bob, why, after being with Leland since he was a little boy, did Teresa's threat lead him to finally kill?



I really can't see BOB wearing a ski mask for any criminal behavior. Leland is his mask. If he wanted to protect Leland's identity he would've used a mask while killing Laura and Maddy.
Same thing with Leland. So he used a ski mask to attack someone in an empty park during the evening but no mask to commit murder in a hospital with doctors and nurses all over the place.

The woods scene, couldn't be Leland because Leo was fully aware of the mystery guest.
"Who's that? Did you bring someone with you?"
"Doesn't matter..."

Leo wouldn't ignore a surprise guest during a drug deal if he didn't know exactly who it was. The ski mask character was probably going to be someone associated with Leo.

Re Teresa Banks, Leland himself wouldn't wrap her body in plastic and place the letter under the nail, that was BOB's ritual.
I always saw Teresa's murder as BOB taking advantage of Leland's rage against her and turning into murder.
"Is she giving you trouble? Let's get rid of her". But of course, BOB's doings are always erased from Leland's memory, so it fits.
Last edited by Agent Sam Stanley on Mon Jan 12, 2015 9:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Ross
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Re: unanswered questions / mistakes / etc.

Postby Ross » Mon Apr 29, 2013 10:18 am

Zachary wrote:
Brie and Butter wrote:What about Teresa Banks? Before his death, Leland says "they made me kill that girl, Teresa" -- as if he was an innocent at the mercy of the evil spirits. We know that Teresa was trying to blackmail Leland, though, so why would Bob want her dead? In other words, who killed Teresa -- Bob or Leland? And if it was Bob, why, after being with Leland since he was a little boy, did Teresa's threat lead him to finally kill?

That, to me, is one of the most annoying inconsistencies between the series and FWWM. The series would have us believe that Leland was simply a host to BOB, and was not really responsible for his own actions. FWWM sets up motives for Leland to kill Teresa and Laura, which absolutely makes more sense if FWWM were a standalone story, but it doesn't really reflect the explanation that was given in the series.

I think the Bob/Leland connection is much more complex and symbiotic (and perhaps interesting) in FWWM- but I don't feel like its a inconsistency. When Leland enters the Lodge at the end of the film, and they take his "Garmonbozia", I think it sort of "reset" Leland in a way. Making him much more clueless to Bob's involvement than he had been previously.
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Jasper
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Re: unanswered questions / mistakes / etc.

Postby Jasper » Sat May 11, 2013 1:21 am

This is my first post. May as well begin with a complaint. :)

Some people think Miss Twin Peaks, the entire arc, was a bit silly. Apparently even Sherilyn Fenn thought it was silly (based on what I've read here). No big argument from me. Nevertheless, since it WAS done, couldn't they have at least had more than 12 (or however many) people in the audience for the final event? Seemed like there were more people onstage than in the audience.

It was supposed to be a big event for the town, maybe THE big event, but I'd swear there were bigger crowds at all of the funerals, as well as the earlier events like the fashion show. That half-assed audience takes me out of it.

Another thing, which may be nitpicking, is when Coop goes to find Josie in The Great Northern, right before she dies. They changed the lights and some details, but it's very obviously the same hallway which was home to Cooper's room. I guess changing the actual wood beams and such would have been asking a bit much, but it's mildly distracting.
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Re: unanswered questions / mistakes / etc.

Postby piero » Sat May 11, 2013 5:49 am

Brie and Butter wrote:In other words, who killed Teresa -- Bob or Leland? And if it was Bob, why, after being with Leland since he was a little boy, did Teresa's threat lead him to finally kill?



Don't forget that Teresa got "the ring"!!!
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Re: unanswered questions / mistakes / etc.

Postby Si78 » Mon Sep 15, 2014 1:18 am

I came across this thread and had a great time reading it. I thought I'd bump it since many of us are rewatching the series (in HD!). Any new goofs come up?

One that bugs me is how Harold clearly accidentally gets fake blood on his face before he applies pressure to cut himself in episode 12.

And reading the first post in this thread about Audrey's note got me thinking... How long was that note under Cooper's bed? Was the Great Northern able to maintain their reasonable prices due to cuts in the maid service budget?
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Re: unanswered questions / mistakes / etc.

Postby Henrys Hair » Mon Sep 15, 2014 1:33 pm

bosguy1981 wrote:There are some minor editing "mishaps" during Leland's wake in episode 17 where the placement of Donna and Big Ed are concerned. We see Donna scooping food into a plate while Big Ed chats with a man in the background. Seconds later, Donna and Big Ed are standing together in another part of the home talking about James. Seconds later, Donna's back at the table scooping the food into the plate.


There's another small inconsistency with Dwayne Milford during the wake. While Sarah, Eileen & Audrey are talking about Laura & Donna's pact he's in the background talking to Doc Hayward & Pete Martell, even though he would have had to break off the argument with his brother for this to take place.

As for the fire: When Catherine returns, Sheriff Truman suggests she calls her lawyer, so there's some suspicion there. It's not exactly an in-depth interrogation though!
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Re: unanswered questions / mistakes / etc.

Postby Jonfen » Mon Dec 08, 2014 5:18 am

Si78 wrote:One that bugs me is how Harold clearly accidentally gets fake blood on his face before he applies pressure to cut himself in episode 12.


I just rewatched this episode last night and never noticed just how clear it is that the fake blood is already there! Gave me a chuckle.
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LostInTheMovies
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Re: unanswered questions / mistakes / etc.

Postby LostInTheMovies » Mon Dec 08, 2014 8:34 am

Jasper wrote:Nevertheless, since it WAS done, couldn't they have at least had more than 12 (or however many) people in the audience for the final event? Seemed like there were more people onstage than in the audience.


Especially considering Andy has so much trouble finding Cooper in that HUGE crowd in the ONE-ROOM Road House. I realize that was probably supposed to be one of those "hey wink-wink we know that this is implausible, but we're gonna play it to the hilt!" but like a lot of those gestures in ep. 28, it just isn't sold well.
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Re: unanswered questions / mistakes / etc.

Postby 4815162342 » Mon Dec 08, 2014 9:37 am

I think Leland is wearing a mask to attack Jacoby because they don't want to show that it's Leland - it's a classic TV thing.

Jacoby smells the burning engine oil when Leland is murdering Jaques so I'd say it was Bob who did it.
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Maddy
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Re: unanswered questions / mistakes / etc.

Postby Maddy » Mon Dec 15, 2014 3:55 pm

garethw wrote:
Brie and Butter wrote:When Andy steps on the loose plank at Leo's, Albert can be seen in the background removing his sunglasses; there's then a close-up shot of Albert where he, you guessed it, removes his sunglasses

Actually, if you watch closely, Albert takes off the glasses *three* times!

I noticed that too! :lol:

1. What of the damned cat who got a new collar on Feb 6? Always jumps out at me as kind of a casual "lets write something -anything at all - banal in here". that makes me think of a lazy prop department, not the diary of a teenager. I guess the cat doe make an appearance in the Secret Diary.

Actually the cat does make a few appearances in the Secret Diary, when Laura was young. However, in her diary it is is called Jupiter and is killed later, which makes me wonder how "Katy" (aforementioned cat in your post/Laura's public diary) actually turns up. From the secret diary, which she tells everything to, the original (and only) two pets she ever has are Jupiter the cat and Troy the horse, who she describes as "cinnamon red and deep brown".

Which also raises another point:

1. WHY do so many ppl assume that white horse in Twin Peaks is Troy from Laura's diary when she clearly describes him as "cinnamon red and deep brown"?

According to superstition, if you see a white horse, it's an omen. If you salute it, it's an omen of good health, if you don't, it portends death/doom. (Which is what happened in the Palmer house that night!) :mrgreen:
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Maddy
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Re: unanswered questions / mistakes / etc.

Postby Maddy » Mon Dec 15, 2014 4:22 pm

Back to the subject of Leland:

1. I've never understood the "ski mask" attacker being Leland or thought it was him. (I also didn't think Josie shot Cooper because the figure of the "gunman" like Coop described looked more like a well...man!)

2. When the "Scooby gang" sneak out to Jacoby's, I'm sure Leland doesn't actually watch Maddy coming down the stairs (plus she wasn't wearing the wig at that point she still had her glasses on and hair tied up, so she didn't look like his dead daughter) , but he listened to her, plus she's his niece (and according to the diary is 4 years older than Laura) so if she's into her twenties her can't really control or lose it with her like he does with Laura. As for Laura I think any father would go insane watching his 17 year old daughter sneaking out in sexy underwear and jumping on a motorbike, because it's blatantly obvious she's lying to him. :)

3. Regarding the Teresa situation, I agree both Leland and BOB had motives to kill her. I think when they had sex and Leland suddenly covers her eyes and asks "who am I?" he was possessed by BOB. He seems totally out of it then and interested in scaring her. However, when she calls him (idk if i'm allowed to talk about the blu-ray deleted scenes here too?) but if not it still says in FWWM beforehand when Ronnette says "she was blackmailing somebody" and Laura freaks out after finding out Teresa asked about her father, Leland DID have a lot of motive to kill her. We don't find out what she said but obviously she did blackmail him somehow. I've always wondered why he wasn't as brutal with Teresa as with Laura and Maddy, but maybe that's because it was Leland killing her and not Bob. (or, not BOB as much[i])
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Audrey Horne
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Re: unanswered questions / mistakes / etc.

Postby Audrey Horne » Mon Dec 15, 2014 5:02 pm

Well, one easy answer to the masked man is simply a matter of practicality. It is not Ray Wise but a stand-in actor. The actors wouldn't know any of this and are kept in the dark with the secrets. It's possible at this stage Frost didn't even know if it would be Leland, same as a the person shooting Cooper is not Joan Chen.
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Brie and Butter
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Re: unanswered questions / mistakes / etc.

Postby Brie and Butter » Wed Jan 07, 2015 10:44 am

Just started watching for the umpteenth time.

I'm sure it's something that many others have wondered, but how did Cooper and co. never realize that Laura and Ronette both worked at the perfume counter? I seem to recall that Laura didn't work there long, but still, it makes the good guys seem implausibly bumbling. Any idea why this detail was removed from the original script of Episode 2?

Also, Cooper and Truman were in the hospital elevator with Mike/Gerard in the pilot, yet when Hawk tells Cooper he saw a one-armed man at the hospital two episodes later, Cooper seems alarmed and asked if Hawk questioned him, despite having had the chance to do so himself. (I know the show was a work-in-progress and plot lines developed further after the show was picked up, but still...)

The timeline of Episode 2 is all over the place. It begins at night -- the Hornes are having dinner, Mike and Bobby meet Leo in the woods, James and Donna bore us to tears after dinner at the Hayward house and Cooper returns to his hotel room, where Audrey slips him the note. The next day, Cooper breaks the bottle, Albert arrives, Leland dances with Laura's photo and Catherine asks Pete what "that FBI man" wanted when he came by today. At this point, though, it's a day later. The original script seems to have this sequenced correctly; any idea why it was cut/pasted?

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