Sherilyn Fenn - new AV Club interview

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Audrey Horne
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Re: Sherilyn Fenn - new AV Club interview

Postby Audrey Horne » Sun Jan 26, 2014 9:34 pm

Yeah, during the first season the actors had no input. Most didn't even think the series would air or anyone would see it. I believe the breakfast syrup scene was the first draft and was changed to the final product in the second draft. What you also have to remember is Audrey is a suspect, all the cast members are. The balance in that first season was constantly for the viewer still to be up in the air with all these characters. And the Frost, Lynch, Peyton, Engels team had nothing planned past the first season.

Cooper was originally thought to be involved with the Josie character when they envisioned the potential past the pilot. Notice he also has a slightly harder edge and big city mentality in his scenes with Truman. Probably envisioned a love triangle scenario between the three grown up leads, and the high schoolers other arcs.

Somewhere between shooting the pilot, piecing it together and getting the green light over for seven more episodes, things changed. Sherilyn didn't know until she got the first script that she was going to have the Cooper scene, or that they were expanding her character. The arcs were pretty mapped out when writing began on those seven episodes. I think initially it was just the Audrey character was a fun one that the writers liked writing for, and Cooper was another one. And it is a soap opera. In her first season commentary, Leslie Linka Glatter commented that she and the others directed it under the assumption that they would be a couple. (I think it's just a basic soap tenant - you have couplings in a show to break them up, get them back together, mix them around, and out them back together... Shelly, Donna, Norma, Josie, Catherine already had their counterparts.)

My understanding is everyone on the creative side just thought they had good chemistry together, and could have fun scenes. I imagine Kyle didn't even think beyond just doing his job by following what is in the script.

Then the season hit, and it was a big success. The biggest ink spilled was Who Killed the Girl, the dancing dwarf, wild Lynch, and the FBI guy and the saddle shoe chick who can tie cherries hooking up. Frost, "it's what all our mail was about." The second season scripts has specific details about Cooper's reactions in the Audrey scenes. The Windom Earle introduction as a name is also tied to her when Cooper dictates to Diane, and then reinforced when he tells Truman about putting Audrey in jeopardy after the OEJs rescue and that it's happened before. And we have the Ben Horne scene with him warning Cooper about her charms, the Giant telling him he forgot something (Audrey's letter unrelated to the murder culprit).

It's foggy when it was actually axed, but most likely somewhere in the development between the farewell in his hotel room "you're perfect" scene and the wedding dance. Some could argue the room goodbye scene is ending their arc quickly, while some could argue that is just the foreshadowing scene of a Cooper, Audrey, Windom triangle season endgame. But the Milford wedding episode script has Audrey asking Cooper if he's in any trouble while they dance and setting up the whole evening the score in rescuing the other arc. So most likely it was nixed somewhere there, and Audrey's rescue tit for tat of Cooper's drug charges changed a little for that planned section already in the works.

Whew, that was fun. It's been a long time since I blabbed on about this topic.
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Re: Sherilyn Fenn - new AV Club interview

Postby Agent Sam Stanley » Sun Jan 26, 2014 9:48 pm

Audrey Horne wrote:Yeah, during the first season the actors had no input. Most didn't even think the series would air or anyone would see it. I believe the breakfast syrup scene was the first draft and was changed to the final product in the second draft. What you also have to remember is Audrey is a suspect, all the cast members are. The balance in that first season was constantly for the viewer still to be up in the air with all these characters. And the Frost, Lynch, Peyton, Engels team had nothing planned past the first season.

Cooper was originally thought to be involved with the Josie character when they envisioned the potential past the pilot. Notice he also has a slightly harder edge and big city mentality in his scenes with Truman. Probably envisioned a love triangle scenario between the three grown up leads, and the high schoolers other arcs.

Somewhere between shooting the pilot, piecing it together and getting the green light over for seven more episodes, things changed. Sherilyn didn't know until she got the first script that she was going to have the Cooper scene, or that they were expanding her character. The arcs were pretty mapped out when writing began on those seven episodes. I think initially it was just the Audrey character was a fun one that the writers liked writing for, and Cooper was another one. And it is a soap opera. In her first season commentary, Leslie Linka Glatter commented that she and the others directed it under the assumption that they would be a couple. (I think it's just a basic soap tenant - you have couplings in a show to break them up, get them back together, mix them around, and out them back together... Shelly, Donna, Norma, Josie, Catherine already had their counterparts.)

My understanding is everyone on the creative side just thought they had good chemistry together, and could have fun scenes. I imagine Kyle didn't even think beyond just doing his job by following what is in the script.

Then the season hit, and it was a big success. The biggest ink spilled was Who Killed the Girl, the dancing dwarf, wild Lynch, and the FBI guy and the saddle shoe chick who can tie cherries hooking up. Frost, "it's what all our mail was about." The second season scripts has specific details about Cooper's reactions in the Audrey scenes. The Windom Earle introduction as a name is also tied to her when Cooper dictates to Diane, and then reinforced when he tells Truman about putting Audrey in jeopardy after the OEJs rescue and that it's happened before. And we have the Ben Horne scene with him warning Cooper about her charms, the Giant telling him he forgot something (Audrey's letter unrelated to the murder culprit).

It's foggy when it was actually axed, but most likely somewhere in the development between the farewell in his hotel room "you're perfect" scene and the wedding dance. Some could argue the room goodbye scene is ending their arc quickly, while some could argue that is just the foreshadowing scene of a Cooper, Audrey, Windom triangle season endgame. But the Milford wedding episode script has Audrey asking Cooper if he's in any trouble while they dance and setting up the whole evening the score in rescuing the other arc. So most likely it was nixed somewhere there, and Audrey's rescue tit for tat of Cooper's drug charges changed a little for that planned section already in the works.

Whew, that was fun. It's been a long time since I blabbed on about this topic.


Wow, thanks a lot Audrey.
Makes a lot of sense now, looking at that angle.
Also, it's news to me they considered Cooper to be interested in Josie at some point, after the pilot.
Thanks for sharing all this.
I really like to read all the "could've beens" of the show :)
Last edited by Agent Sam Stanley on Mon Jan 27, 2014 9:58 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Sherilyn Fenn - new AV Club interview

Postby Audrey Horne » Sun Jan 26, 2014 9:56 pm

Also, that speculation that Boyle would feel threatened by actual romance. I think that is neither here nor there. They're all actors, they understand the nature as leading men and women that they would always have acting love interests. You have to remember these three were all young actors starting their careers in the right direction finally. Peaks was a TV show, and TV shows were either no man's land or launching pads to bigger things. Jockeying for position and notice in Hollywood is always a factor. They might not even realize they were intentionally doing this. But they were all very young, including Kyle.
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Re: Sherilyn Fenn - new AV Club interview

Postby Agent Sam Stanley » Mon Jan 27, 2014 12:17 am

Audrey Horne wrote:Also, that speculation that Boyle would feel threatened by actual romance. I think that is neither here nor there. They're all actors, they understand the nature as leading men and women that they would always have acting love interests. You have to remember these three were all young actors starting their careers in the right direction finally. Peaks was a TV show, and TV shows were either no man's land or launching pads to bigger things. Jockeying for position and notice in Hollywood is always a factor. They might not even realize they were intentionally doing this. But they were all very young, including Kyle.


I understand what you're saying and I agree. They were young and their careers were finally in the right track in a hit show.
It messes with your head for sure.
Still, from what I see and read from various sources, LFB seems pretty self centered and I think this was a case of using her boyfriend's influence to overshadow the competition. And if that means messing with the show that's finally putting you in the spotlight, be it.
I don't think age or stardom would justify all that, but that's just an opinion :)

Anyway, I'm not a big fan of LFB, or Kyle's attitude towards this subject. If you're a fan and my words sound disrespectful, I'm sorry, that was not my intention.

I really like your posts, you seem very passionate about everything you write.
Last edited by Agent Sam Stanley on Mon Jan 27, 2014 10:07 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Sherilyn Fenn - new AV Club interview

Postby GeekBoyEric74 » Mon Jan 27, 2014 3:51 am

Audrey Horne wrote:
I don't want to get into it, but some thirty year old actor dating a 19, 20 year old actor is... Well, a whole lot of things. (Yeah, I get the irony that the Cooper, Audrey characters echo this... But this was a highly stylized serial in aesthetic fantasy old movie inspired/soap land, not realism.). Rant over.


Let's be fair here...Kyle was only 11 years older than Lara Flynn Boyle when they started dating. Coop may have acted like an old man, but Kyle was only thirty. She would have been 20 when they started dating. An apparently very immature 20 year old, but 20 nevertheless.
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Re: Sherilyn Fenn - new AV Club interview

Postby Agent Sam Stanley » Mon Jan 27, 2014 10:06 am

GeekBoyEric74 wrote:An apparently very immature 20 year old, but 20 nevertheless.


;)
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Re: Sherilyn Fenn - new AV Club interview

Postby Audrey Horne » Mon Jan 27, 2014 11:07 am

Oh no, I agree it is perfectly acceptable. Just from my point of life and looking back, thirty and twenty (or nineteen) is a world of difference than say the same age gap at forty and thirty, etc. But again, it was just my little rant. This topic was fun.

And ha ha ha about being disrespectful to me, Agent Sam. No worries, I am not a fan although I've liked a lot of her work (no, not that kind of work!). I'm just trying to be diplomatic.
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Re: Sherilyn Fenn - new AV Club interview

Postby blair » Thu Feb 13, 2014 2:07 pm

Here we go again...in you read this interview from Fenn, it's just a deduction from Fenn that it was Kyle/LFB "evil couple" fault if Kyle have decided to stop the romance.

The problem It was not Fenn have changed her version about the end of the romance, in comparaison to her interview in early 90's, the problem also that this rumor have travelled among the crews, the fans and now apparently the actors themselves; why she have changed now her story about Kyle/LFB ? She have clearly said she don't seen or hear something herself, so according to her, she repeat a "rumor" and she don't have been witnessed anything.

I think it's unfair that Kyle and FLB are accused about something like that, a "big complot" against Fenn....the problem it's if we take an old interview online of LFB (in 2007), she have said to be friendly with Fenn and was happy to have seen her again in some studios (sorry I don't remember the details)...we talk about how difficult LFB was supposed to be if we trust "the fans" of TP, but according various interview in TP archives, she was close friend with Sheryl Lee, her stunt double have said that she was very nice etc...except around the Fenn "world", she don't seem very agressive.

Agent Sam Staley, for the movie, Kyle was little angry against Lynch because he have felt that Lynch have abandonned TP after ABC have forced him to reveal the killer,(Lynch himself agree with that), so Kyle was a little bitter against him, but finally he have accepted to do the movie because of his friendship with Lynch (that nothing to do with LFB), there were no bad feud between them, today they are still good friends; LFB, like Fenn, has a schedule conflict, except Fenn seem to have a problem with FWWM.

In an interview posted in Brad D blog, there were a very interesting interview of Harley Peyton about Kyle decision (for the romance), apparently Kyle, David and maybe Mark have discuted about his decision in David Lynch office, the discussion have lasted....just five minutes, so no scream, no fight, David simply say "there will be no more romance"...so I guess Kyle reason have been seem like "logical" during their discussion, in this interview Peyton don't have said anything about a "complot", just the official Kyle decision, and the guy is in my opinion more credible that the "rumor", he was directly present during the moment Kyle have made officially his decision.

His decision is clear and logical, an FBI agent can't be the lover of an high school girl, in the reality or in the TP world..and for Heather Graham comparaison, she is supposed to be way more older than Audrey in the context of the story, she seem to have an hard life, and she is Norma sister, not her daughter.

I think what that have killed the show, it was first the multiples bad decisions from ABC, imo that nothing to do with the show itself. If we should chose an element of the story to blame, according Lynch and Frost, that would be simply the revelation of Laura Palmer killer, nobody in their crews were ready for that, Kyle decision or not (I don't think the romance would have changed something). I also find that weird that they have decided to concentrate about the Cooper/Audrey romance just after because TP is lot of things but clearly not a romantic tv show, except to be both very populars, their flirt was for just 2 minutes by episodes (at best) and more "something funny", for example the James/Donna couple were far more important and established in the story, I can understand Kyle feel nervous about that, for his role and for TP.

Again my problem about this rumor, it's nobody, among the crews or the actors, seem to have or heard something from the peoples directly involved, Kyle and LFB, and nobody have the same version of this story...if I trust Peyton interview, the official version of Kyle, was the same reason he have given to Lynch; so Kyle, unlike Fenn, don't have changed the reason he have given about this decision.

In my opinion, these rumors have created lot of tensions between these actors and have given, without real proof, a bad reputation to LFB/Kyle, in my opinion, that something the TP community really don't need, put drama and distorded story about behind the scenes (sorry for my english and sorry for the long text).
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Re: Sherilyn Fenn - new AV Club interview

Postby Colonel Cooper » Sun Feb 16, 2014 4:18 pm

:lol:

Hey Blair, where you been, good to have you back. I honestly do like reading your posts even if, like the one above, I hold the completely opposite view about it than you do.

Never mind.
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Re: Sherilyn Fenn - new AV Club interview

Postby blair » Mon Feb 17, 2014 5:43 am

Hello Colonel Cooper, well I was not really absent, but we can't say that there are lot of dicussion in dugpa...I read time to time the forum; well, it's not really a surprise that you disagree with me...but about what exactly ? I have written a very long text. :mrgreen:

Except that have you read the message of Agent Sam Stanley:

"I always thought the whole thing came about after the episode Cooper found Audrey in his bed.
They were supposed to make love (offscreen, obviously) and have breakfast together downstairs the next morning. That's how the next episode was supposed to begin in the first draft of the script. They changed all that later to Cooper's moral speech at Kyle's request. (Can't remember where I read all this, maybe WIP but I'm not sure, can someone confirm this?)"

"Ross wrote:
And I don't think the original script actually had them making love offscreen, it just left the viewer to question what actually did or didn't happen by starting the episode at breakfast. Audrey was smitten with Cooper at that point.

Yes, that's what I meant by making love offscreen :)
There was no indication of making love in the script, but Cooper finds Audrey naked in his bed, episode ends, next episode we see them having breakfast together, Audrey smitten and all, it's implied they made love. If not, they needed to explain what was the outcome of that scene at some point."

I have also found that inTwin Peaks Gazette forum, the quote is from Forgiveness:

http://www.twinpeaksgazette.com/communi ... 4.cfm.html

"I have an interview where MacLachlan stated that even after he complained to the TP writers about the Dale/Audrey romance the writers were still going for it, God bless them! It was only after he threatened to leave that they finally nixed it, basically throwing out all the hard work they had done. In that same interview, MacLachlan voiced his complaints about his character's relationship with Annie as well, complaining about Heather being so young. She looks more like a porcelain doll than a world wearied woman and I'm surprised people find her older looking than Fenn."

These two quotes confirm, if these info are trues, that Kyle don't have taken his decision in the last minute, or by the influence of LFB; it was already his decision since the episode 4 of the first season...maybe because ABC have forced the revelation of Laura Palmer, the writers have comeback to the romance story because it was something already more or less written ? Regardless, that seem a big problem for Kyle; do you know he has ready to refuse the role of Dale Cooper because he tought that he was and look like too young for an FBI agent ? In some way, that ironic, but he seem sensitive to the potential age problem.
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Sherilyn Fenn - new AV Club interview

Postby kafard » Mon Feb 17, 2014 6:00 am

So, in fact, it's a story about "who fuck who?" and not "who kill who? Very romanesque!

It's a joke... Well, a half joke :-)
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Re: Sherilyn Fenn - new AV Club interview

Postby blair » Mon Feb 17, 2014 9:51 am

lol Kafard, that would be really weird to have seen this scene, with Cooper and with a little smile of satisfaction and he would have said something like that: "who is your daddy ?" :lol: , without joke the sequence (of the script) could have been really fun in a very disturbing way.

With your joke, that remind me a problem, the writers have pretended that the romance would have been the main plot for 6 or 7 episodes....really ?! For 6 or 7 episodes TP would have been transformed in a romantic tv show (at least in the main plot) ? that would have been crazy. :shock: , like I have already said TP is lot of things but clearly not a romantic tv show; what do you think about that ? I really wish to have seen their original plans, but I really don't see their points...I don't see how that should take the place of the Drugs story with Denise, and the Windoms Earles first part; I honestly prefer the second season like that (I love all the TP episodes, so I don't have a problem with them).
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Re: Sherilyn Fenn - new AV Club interview

Postby Audrey Horne » Mon Feb 17, 2014 1:09 pm

Peyton and Engels showed me some of their first draft scripts for those six episodes. The tone completely shifted. Plots involved Cooper and Audrey trying to agree on a movie to see, and then he forgets money for popcorn. Another one where they go on vacation and she gets her toe stuck in the bathtub facet. But they only wrote four out of the six.

Blair, Peaks was a sendup of soap operas, and romance and mixing up of partners was pretty standard... Dallas, Dynasty, Peyton Place. Peaks was always big on the plight of the lovers... Shelly and Bobby. Norma and Ed, James and Donna, Cooper and Audrey. The thing wouldn't work if it was constantly Bob and the Red Room. It needed a spine of normal soap action for the supernatural elements to come in occasionally and jolt us with surprise.

I think the problem always stems from Peyton, Frost and others using the word, "consummate" for the Audrey, Cooper arc. I think in television terms, "consummate" and "love affair" is more about how they partner the two up. That the two are involved more admittedly instead of the earlier teasing playful scenes. I'm sure it would still have been handled with severe dramatic complications, the drug plot and Earle scenes still fully in place... Just probably more scenes like Audrey in Cooper's room, or conversations he had with Annie. Frost said he wanted Cooper to be like a teacher to her. It would have been handled with great care and I'm sure well done. They liked writing their scenes.

And I agree it isn't really fair to bash Boyle (or MacLachlan). There really is some truth to the whole thing from what I've been told first hand. But they were all young... And the difference from what was said in 1991 to what is said currently is strictly from time and perspective and maturing. A 20 year old is going to feel differently than a 30 year old version of said person.
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Re: Sherilyn Fenn - new AV Club interview

Postby blair » Mon Feb 17, 2014 2:38 pm

Thanks for the details of the script Audrey Hornes, I find that...weird to see Cooper to do normal stuff for a date with a girl, that sound too romantic imo.

For the romantic aspect, of course in TP that exist, but that never been the main plot, and some romances are extremely linked to the murder case and there are limited in the show, it's for that I find that weird that the writers have said that would have been the main plot...you have cited classic soap opera tv show, but according Frost, one of the main point of TP was not to be a soap opera, that Lynch and Frost hated, according Frost...so what the point to transform TP into a soap opera like ? Yes the things couldn't work with just bob and red room, but that should stay the main plot; in the second season there are lot of intimates moments...but the main plot, since the beginning of the show, is the mystery around TP.

the writers words for "consumate" seem crystal clear to me, the episode 4 script talk about sexual relation, Engels have clearly stated the age of Audrey like a potential problem, I don't deny that could be good (and I really love their scenes together)...but to put that like it was the main problem of TP, and because of that TP suck, or the second season suck, or Kyle (the main actor) have destroyed the show just for that and have caused his cancellation....well, Annie or Audrey in the black lodge, that don't make lot of difference for me; their relations were nice; I like some romantic aspect of TP, but it was again that have never been the "main plot" of this TV show, it's for that I'm shocked when the writers say "the romance that would have been the main plot".

For Lara etc...well, there are maybe some true, but when you have 1/100 of the behind the scenes stuff and just half the words from the crews, that let the place of speculation and distorded stories; Kyle has a problem with this story since episode 4 (see my previous post); I doubt it was already Lara, so Kyle is honest about his decision...according Fenn, she seem dislike Lara, Lara in other hand (at least in her interview) have said to really love her and it was happy to see her again; so how do you interpret that ? A love triangle (and we can easily speculate about that, see the discussion in TP gazette I have posted, the question of Lynch to Fenn if she love Kyle, Kyle love to flirt according Fenn blog etc...) ? I don't think it's a jealous thing, Audrey was maybe more popular among the fans, but Lara has a more important role.

It's for that, when you don't have all the story, it's extremely complicated, the problem this kind of theory have been too present in TP community...and in the DVD too !!!... With the trap question about the romance for Fenn, Engels, Frost and Kyle in last, with a curious cut (it was not really professional and correct for Kyle imo), and I don't talk about the second season (it was clear the question was, "what wrong with the second season ?"), it was imo not correct and not something I wish to see in dvd, this kind of gossip and "bash the second season" mentality...it was clearly a "mediocre" work for DVD, not really objective and clearly from a "special" fan of TP (you know "except first season, just 8 episodes, is good, the rests are pure crap").
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Re: Sherilyn Fenn - new AV Club interview

Postby Audrey Horne » Mon Feb 17, 2014 3:27 pm

Blair, I was just kidding about those scripts. Making a point that it wouldn't be as ridiculous as all that.

Peaks was initially thought of as exploring a small town that is effected by a murder, and how they all reflect on it, and scratching the surface to expose their secrets. Bob, red room, giant were all basically happy accidents along the way. So I think it's safe to assume romances would always be a basic tenet to story telling plots.

Not to put words or motivation in Boyle's mouth, but when you talk about her 2007 interview, she is coming at it from the mindset of a thirty something year old. She's has a different attitude. Fenn would say things back in the day because production didn't want her to talk about it in public because she's promoting a show and everything is supposed to be wonderful.

But I don't think anything would save the show from an untimely cancellation, even if it stayed as expertly plotted and written as the first season. I think you and I just view the show from a different perspective, and that's all right. It's what art is all about.
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