Episode 29 Compression

Discussion of Twin Peaks and Fire Walk With Me

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John Neff
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Postby John Neff » Thu Apr 26, 2007 7:31 pm

Leo F. you have great comments and a good insight into all this. Good to meet you. You might be right about the 'baked' files for the film transfer - they may hold enough information to make it actually work, AND... I don't think that technology existed in 2001 for "Buena Vista Social Club".
I remember the tape-to-film tests we did in the Fall of '04, and they looked terrific. I understand, though that a lot of intermediate steps were taken preparing this film for theatrical distribution that did not exist 2 1/2 years ago.

I too would have much rather seen the documentary about Eraserhead days as being dank and grainy rather than sacrifice anything from the film or soundtrack. But, hey... who am I? Nobody asked me! And don't get me started on that microphone! I found that for David (actually, two of them) while he was filming "The Straight Story" on the road. we faxed back and forth and he could not believe how much they cost, but I told him, "This is a helluva deal". "I sold my pair for a lot more than this three years ago". They are Neumann 'Telefunken' U-47 Tube long Body Chrome top mics - the Holy Grail of Microphones. I sold mine in '95 for $8k apiece, Dave bought his for considerably less, I looked at two today for $20k, not as nice as Dave's and mine. Oh, well...


Now don't get me started on the Pink Room scene in FWWM. I have eaten enough grief on that one. That's why I say I will happily preserve the VHS Stereo mix for all the purists.

I do not believe that Dave had anything to do with the DVD mixes on S2. He was totally wrapped up in IE all last year, and then the various promotion tours. I do not know when he COULD have done it.
I spoke with him today about other issues, but he is leaving the country again tomorrow and I will not speak with him until June. I will ask him about the S2 sound.
Last edited by John Neff on Thu Apr 26, 2007 7:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.
John Neff
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Postby John Neff » Thu Apr 26, 2007 7:33 pm

Never mind. Site said it had sent my reply to hell, but there it is....

Interesting....

Dugpa, ya got issues here!
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dugpa
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Postby dugpa » Thu Apr 26, 2007 7:47 pm

Yeah. The board can be temperamental. Its a free board so unfortunately I have to deal with the occasional error or two.
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Asterisk
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Postby Asterisk » Fri Apr 27, 2007 3:03 am

That's all very interesting stuff, but something that occurred to me is, why not present the Eraserhead documentary as a kind of audio commentary instead of as a feature? (I've not watched all of the doc yet, so forgive me if there are visual reasons why this totally wouldn't have worked.)

I know Lynch doesn't like commentaries, but this would have been different, since it would be a commentary per se -- i.e., not a scene-specific type of affair, but simply a way of presenting essentially aural information and saving disc space in the process.
bmiller
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Postby bmiller » Fri Apr 27, 2007 6:10 pm

That's all very interesting stuff, but something that occurred to me is, why not present the Eraserhead documentary as a kind of audio commentary instead of as a feature? (I've not watched all of the doc yet, so forgive me if there are visual reasons why this totally wouldn't have worked.)

I know Lynch doesn't like commentaries, but this would have been different, since it would be a commentary per se -- i.e., not a scene-specific type of affair, but simply a way of presenting essentially aural information and saving disc space in the process.


It's all water-under-the-bridge now. We are about four years too late on this one. The ironic thing is, if there had been no extras at all I would have been satisfied because when I ordered Eraserhead from Lynch's website all I expected to get was the movie w/ pristine audio/video. I'm pretty sure Lynch never mentioned the Eraserhead "Stories" extra in the chat rooms before the DVD was released.

Don't get me wrong, the audio and video on Eraserhead are very good, it's just that the audio/video quality could have been improved somewhat with a higher bit rate had the extras appeared on a separate disc. I do love the fact that at the end of the 84 minute Extra, David mentions that of all the reviews and interpretations of Eraserhead that have been written over the years none of them match his own interpretation, which he then proceeds not to tell us and the Extra promptly ends at that point. :lol: David remains typically Lynchian right to the end.
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silenttwn
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Postby silenttwn » Wed May 02, 2007 11:40 pm

LeoFaraon wrote:Windom:
I've always hoped my endless hours of
mentoring might CONTRIBUTE to the development
of a fertile MIND. You were such a dullard, Coopy, such
an earnest, plodding, do-gooding Eagle Scout - it was
all I could do sometimes to keep myself from SHREDDING YOUR INTERNAL ORGANS OUT OF GENERAL PRINCIPLE!
(capitals in the original)

Very crude. No wonder Lynch ended up cutting the whole Black Lodge as envisioned by Frost. It was RIDICULOUS!


Eh, I don't know.

First off, I haven't really looked too much behind the scenes into Twin Peaks but I don't remember ever hearing about some sort of fight between Frost and Lynch. Is there any basis for this?

Also, there were two other writers on that episode: Peyton and Engels. I don't think you can say Frost wrote that line as a jab at Lynch because that line could've been from any three of them. It might seem that way considering how much Lynch projected his self onto Cooper but yeah I think it's just a coincedence. :) Also, I'm very happy with the changes Lynch made to that episode.
sloclub
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Postby sloclub » Thu May 03, 2007 4:38 am

silenttwn wrote:
LeoFaraon wrote:Windom:
I've always hoped my endless hours of
mentoring might CONTRIBUTE to the development
of a fertile MIND. You were such a dullard, Coopy, such
an earnest, plodding, do-gooding Eagle Scout - it was
all I could do sometimes to keep myself from SHREDDING YOUR INTERNAL ORGANS OUT OF GENERAL PRINCIPLE!
(capitals in the original)

Very crude. No wonder Lynch ended up cutting the whole Black Lodge as envisioned by Frost. It was RIDICULOUS!


Eh, I don't know.

First off, I haven't really looked too much behind the scenes into Twin Peaks but I don't remember ever hearing about some sort of fight between Frost and Lynch. Is there any basis for this?

Also, there were two other writers on that episode: Peyton and Engels. I don't think you can say Frost wrote that line as a jab at Lynch because that line could've been from any three of them. It might seem that way considering how much Lynch projected his self onto Cooper but yeah I think it's just a coincedence. :) Also, I'm very happy with the changes Lynch made to that episode.


At the "celebrate TP" thread we are attempting to discuss story issues like this. Of course everyone is entitled to their opinion but be prepared to defend your position. Especially if it is exessively negative. As fans we have all too willingly joined in on the beat up season 2 party. We only hurt ourselves and the work when we do that.
Through the darkness of futures past,
the magician longs to see
One chants out,
between two worlds,
fire walk with me.
LeoFaraon
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Postby LeoFaraon » Thu May 03, 2007 4:40 am

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Last edited by LeoFaraon on Sat Sep 06, 2014 12:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.
sloclub
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Postby sloclub » Thu May 03, 2007 4:52 am

Leo F,

I couldn't disagree with you more. I don't see that that season 2 was as bad as you say. And when I've heard Frost speak in an unedited format, he is very complimentary of DL even as he acknowledges DL unique creative process.

You might overthinking all this.
Through the darkness of futures past,

the magician longs to see

One chants out,

between two worlds,

fire walk with me.
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Red Room
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Postby Red Room » Thu May 03, 2007 5:04 am

sloclub wrote:Leo F,

I couldn't disagree with you more. I don't see that that season 2 was as bad as you say. And when I've heard Frost speak in an unedited format, he is very complimentary of DL even as he acknowledges DL unique creative process.

You might overthinking all this.

Sloclub, I don't think you'll convince many active posters here about this. It seems that the majority (?) subscribe to the "Season 2 went horribly wrong" mantra. I personally don't, as you may well know by know. ;-)

I'm always fascinated by background stories and behind-the-scenes tales, however I do feel that there is a point where over analysis actually impairs the ability to enjoy the work on its' own merits, which is why I have no interest in digging the dirt on who potentially fell out with and/or upset who during production.
harmolodic
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Postby harmolodic » Thu May 03, 2007 10:47 am

LeoFaraon wrote:Yes, Frost wasn't the only writer of that episode. There's also Harley Peyton, who aside from being a writer on the show, was also the producer of the second season. Not a very good record, considering the direction the second season took. And I don't think it was Engels who wrote that.
That's impossible to know anyway, but it does ring a bell, the eagle scout reference... I don't know, maybe it's nothing.
About Lynch and Frost, there weren't any fights, but Frost got bitter about Lynch's departure from the show, dating as far as the first season. Lynch would come in and direct an episode, throwing out the script, and Frost would say he wasn't happy about that at all. Two very different sensibilities. I think that was reported in Wrapped in Plastic, but I base most of what I'm saying on Martha Nochimson's book. She interviewed Frost for the book, and his bitterness certainly shows. He says Lynch isn't a real "writer", or a "writer in nature" or something to that effect. Problably Harley Peyton is, in his opinion. I'm not so keen in reporting behind the scenes gossip though, but it's obvious it wasn't Lynch who was responsible for, let's put it this way, what's bad about the second season, and as you would agree, he "saved" the season finale from an abismal script, as far as the Black Lodge was concerned.


I'm totally with you on this, Leo--great insight and info. The switch from the intuitive seeker/hero to linear Holmseian detective was a mistake...it totally changed the nature of Coop and of the mystique of the show.

I can't watch WE's overacted movie-of-the-week villain at all (which is why Lynch had BOB so quickly and easily dispatch him).
LeoFaraon
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Postby LeoFaraon » Thu May 03, 2007 1:00 pm

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Last edited by LeoFaraon on Sat Sep 06, 2014 12:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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silenttwn
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Postby silenttwn » Thu May 03, 2007 2:36 pm

harmolodic wrote:I'm totally with you on this, Leo--great insight and info. The switch from the intuitive seeker/hero to linear Holmseian detective was a mistake...it totally changed the nature of Coop and of the mystique of the show.


Cooper goes off his intuition the entire second season, he does not simply switch to a Holmes-type detective at any point in the show. If you want me to name some instances in the season where he goes off his intuition: the coin flip landing on the photo of Dead Dog Farm (I think it's called), Cooper somehow drawing the symbol of Owl Cave and immediately having to investigate it, solving the Laura Palmer case and finding the killer (of which there was no evidence, Cooper had to get a confession), and finding the location of the Black Lodge. I always thought Cooper was a balance between a Holmes figure and some sort of mystical seer type figure throughout the entire show. There was never a switch I don't think.
LeoFaraon
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Postby LeoFaraon » Thu May 03, 2007 5:35 pm

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Postby LeoFaraon » Thu May 03, 2007 7:08 pm

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