Let's talk about Judy

[Kmkmiller]

ok. that said...

here's some good info...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jude_the_Apostle

a lodge reaper works for me...

another thing i think about though is the monkey the Asian girl talks about in INLAND EMPIRE. I think that has a lot to do with the monkey in the lodge.

one of my ideas is that Leland is reincarnated as the monkey. it's the next image you see after BOB puts Leland up on the lodge trophy wall. i don't think Leland is redeemed or absolved in any way during those scenes, i think he is held accountable. there are consequences to doing bad.

[Kmkmiller]

numerology in other Lynch works....

in LOST HIGHWAY Pete Dayton walks down a hall, passes a door marked 25 (2+5=7), he looks at it, the camera lingers there a moment, he keeps going down the hall to room 26 where he opens the door and sees his own version of hell.

in MULHOLLAND DRIVE, Betty and Rita walk through Sierra Bonita to the apartment they are told is Diane's, Diane's apartment is number 17, during their walk down the path they pass an apartment with a bird of paradise flower nodding towards the door. the camera lingers on this door. presumably if the apartments are numbered sequentially, this apartment that they pass would be number 16 (1+6=7).

Adam's room in the Park Hotel is also, if i remember correctly, no. 16.

INLAND EMPIRE the room at the end is numbered 47. It's a pun. ... For 7. Completeness indeed, this is where she is complete.

[p-air]

There are a few connections here I’ve not seen brought up, although I’m not sure how they might fit together.

In Episode 8 (Lynch’s) Josie goes to Seattle to indulge in shopping, then later we have Bob Engels suggesting that Judy was meant to be Josie’s sister or somehow connected to Josie. And the phrasing of the line “in Seattle…at Judy’s” is interesting to me because it actually sounds like the name for a "convenience store” rather than what would be an awkward way to describe Judy’s home (or her hotel room) or really anything other than some sort of retail establishment.

Then in Inland Empire again we get this mention of “the alley behind the marketplace”, almost identical to “the room above the convenience store”, except IE’s alley resides behind the marketplace, connoting lateral space (reflected in the film’s title), while TP's room resides above the convenience store, connoting vertical space (reflected in the stairwells, the elevators, “going up and down”, “we are descended”, etc of FWWM). I wonder what David Lynch’s fixation is on spaces behind/above marketplaces/convenience stores - they signify the subconscious somehow presumably but I’m curious about the spatial aspects and the imagery..

[Kmkmiller]

Some more free association.... If Engals suggests Judy was to be Josie's sister, does anyone remember what Josie was to be called if she was played by Isabella Rosselini? Still a variation on Joe right?

joe is the hitman in MULHOLLAND DRIVE. He calls Ed "bro."

in the pixies tune above one line is "rock me, joe." of course he's probably just talking to pixies lead guitarist Joey Santiago

But you know..... Let's rock. (i also use pixies as a way to navigate the lynch verse ... Everyone knows they they do play "in heaven" in all their shows so....)

Awesome comments about marketplace and convenience store lateral vs vertical ... Would like to add to it that it is in the alley behind the marketplace that Nikki sees the Axxon N door.... She goes through, things get very dark, but Lynch let's one strobe light (always with the strobe lights) flash (just once) to reveal that Nikki descends (back to the vertical) a staircase before finding herself back in the movie studio....

Martha Nochimson has excellent things to say about the marketplace .... Check out her book "David Lynch Swerves."

Yes... Its subconscious ...... the word that jumps out at me is "convenience.". Such an interesting choice of words as how it might relate to Twin Peaks, but not INLAND EMPIRE where it is still a market of sorts but no longer carries the presumably less fancy designation of "convenience."

[Ajax Rules]

I have lots of confidence in Lynch, but bringing back Sheryll Lee as a redhead character, would be soooooooooooo cliche and lame. Bad, bad writing.

Even including Maddy was an overstretch imho.

[p-air]

Also in this thread http://www.dugpa.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=2799 towards the bottom of page 1 LostInTheMovies and I discussed Dead Dog Farm as a Lynchian dilapidated dreamspace lurking behind/above (figuratively) the “convenience store” of One-Eyed Jacks (and seemingly containing a formica table).

But now we’re off topic (or are we ???)

[LostInTheMovies]

Then in Inland Empire again we get this mention of “the alley behind the marketplace”, almost identical to “the room above the convenience store”, except IE’s alley resides behind the marketplace, connoting lateral space (reflected in the film’s title), while TP's room resides above the convenience store, connoting vertical space (reflected in the stairwells, the elevators, “going up and down”, “we are descended”, etc of FWWM). I wonder what David Lynch’s fixation is on spaces behind/above marketplaces/convenience stores - they signify the subconscious somehow presumably but I’m curious about the spatial aspects and the imagery..

Definitely! Like kmkmiller says, I think Martha Nochimson has the most lucid take on this idea in Swerves (which unfortunately mostly ignores FWWM to focus on Lynch's last 4 films). She also touches on it in Passion of David Lynch, from a more overtly psychoanalytical - specifically Jungian - perspective (whereas in Swerves, the framework is quantum/Vedic).

Oh and incidentally - according to her, the "marketplace" and the "palace" terminology of Inland Empire is actually a direct citation of the Maharishi's phrasings, the first time (to my knowledge) Lynch has been that overt in paying tribute to his spiritual mentor.

[Ygdrasel]

What gave me the impression that Judy might have more significance than that was Cooper's reaction (in the theatrical take) when Jeffries mentions Judy. Before Jeffries even finishes the sentence about "We're not going to talk about Judy at all, we're going to keep her out of it," Cooper turns to Cole in alarm and says "Gordon..." Then Cole says, "I know, Coop..." I've always taken this to suggest that Judy was in the dream that Cooper told Cole about off-screen.

Wow, I don't think I've come across a theory that better explains why the monkey says 'Judy'! I like it.

It may be that she has some significance to Cooper via his dreams but not much to the agency in particular. And Cooper's dreams do seem to like to occur in the future...Of note in his '25 years later' dream is his suit. He wears a pin of unknown meaning and a tie with a design rather reminiscent of the Red Room. I like to think after his ordeals in Twin Peaks, he had Project Blue Book revived with a new focus toward TP's woods rather than space, and discovered the Red Room. Lodge spirits operating on a different passage of time, they knew of this contact event and chose to preempt it via Cooper's dreams to use him to get to BOB. (Alternatively, the dream depicts that contact event, and Cooper just has prophetic dreams sometimes - without which, BOB would run amok for another 25 years before Cooper found the Red Room.) But that's all another topic.

I made a slight error previously though: The monkey doesn't appear after "Fell a victim" but in the beginning shots of the convenience store meeting. Though the connection to its second appearance still may suggest a reaper-esque capacity. Pierre also delivers the news of Harold's suicide in the series, come to think of it. If we run with the idea of the Monkey as the Black Lodge's resident proclaimer of death, perhaps Pierre is himself a familiar...

[mark79]

numerology in other Lynch works....

in LOST HIGHWAY Pete Dayton walks down a hall, passes a door marked 25 (2+5=7), he looks at it, the camera lingers there a moment, he keeps going down the hall to room 26 where he opens the door and sees his own version of hell.

in MULHOLLAND DRIVE, Betty and Rita walk through Sierra Bonita to the apartment they are told is Diane's, Diane's apartment is number 17, during their walk down the path they pass an apartment with a bird of paradise flower nodding towards the door. the camera lingers on this door. presumably if the apartments are numbered sequentially, this apartment that they pass would be number 16 (1+6=7).

Adam's room in the Park Hotel is also, if i remember correctly, no. 16.

INLAND EMPIRE the room at the end is numbered 47. It's a pun. ... For 7. Completeness indeed, this is where she is complete.

There is another 7 in FWWM in Deer Meadow

[Jonah]

I'm all for Judy being Josie's sister but I'd be okay with Sheryl as a redheaded Judy too. However, I prefer the Josie connection if they do reintroduce this narrative strand. I find the concept of Judy and Jefferies and all that interesting - but mainly from reading about theories on this board and other sites. I can't say I was ever all that gripped by the notion within the film itself while watching and rewatching FWWM, or particularly impressed with that final shot of the monkey saying her name - but I also didn't think much of the whole ring story arc in that film (which I know many people loved and has brought about a lot of really interesting and fun theories).

[LostInTheMovies]

I'm all for Judy being Josie's sister but I'd be okay with Sheryl as a redheaded Judy too. However, I prefer the Josie connection if they do reintroduce this narrative strand. I find the concept of Judy and Jefferies and all that interesting - but mainly from reading about theories on this board and other sites. I can't say I was ever all that gripped by the notion within the film itself while watching and rewatching FWWM, or particularly impressed with that final shot of the monkey saying her name - but I also didn't think much of the whole ring story arc in that film (which I know many people loved and has brought about a lot of really interesting and fun theories).

I think it has to have something to do with Laura or else the final line of FWWM becomes pointless rather than just cryptic.

[thefifthlizard]

It could easily be both

[thefifthlizard]

I noticed something interesting regarding the proposed link between Judy and Laura. The monkey saying "Judy" is the last word the viewer hears in FWWM. The first words in the Pilot are, of course, Pete saying "Gone Fishing". When Pete goes fishing, what does he find? Laura's body! The same shot of her face that follows is reshown right after the monkey, which in the Wrapped In Plastic article is cited as a reason to believe in the link.

[garmonbozia8]

Now, you can't talk about Judy without talking about that blasted creepy monkey so...Having seen the monkey whisper that name, we can go back to Jeffries for a new connection. During his remembrance, Pierre instructs BOB to 'fell a victim' (Laura)

I see an issue with this assumption that "fell a victim" refers to Laura.

Remember that this "meeting" is a memory of Jeffries, and he's been missing for "damn near two years." That means Laura can't be the next victim, Teresa is, or perhaps someone else before Teresa. Perhaps fell a victim refers to Judy, and that is why Jeffries doesn't want to talk about her (which has always been my intuitive response to the line). That would make Judy Jeffries Annie. Cooper loses Annie to the lodge, Jeffries loses Judy to the lodge. That could even tie in that detail about Jeffries pointing to Cooper "Do you know who this is there?" and the TV static intrudes on the scene at that very moment and we see the masked jumping man laughing hysterically with his weird stick in his hand. Perhaps they both met in the lodge before in the dream Cooper has. It's interesting how Cooper has a dream about this day (Feb. 16... 16 very important number in Lynch movies, 1 + 6 = 7 his favorite number), and the dream comes true, and Cooper somehow knew it would (weird thing he does with the surveillance cameras, waiting for his arrival) b/c then Jeffries says "we live inside a dream." This explains why Cooper's dreams come true. sort of... Reminds me of Mulholland Dr. and the creepy bum scene. The man has a dream there's a man in back of the diner, then goes to look in real life, and the man from his dreams is really there... The dream becomes reality. We live inside a dream.

[krishnanspace]

i think phillip jeffries has met laura palmer or he knows something about her.this is referenced in the missing pieces when Gordon says "mayday,Mayday" and then phillip says "may?may?....Februrary 1989!!" Februrary 1989 is when laura palmer is killed.My guess is that he travelled into the future because those philadelphia scenes takes place one year before laura's murder so the year is 1988.