Dana Ashbrook Interview Pt. 1: Bobby/Audrey & FWWM

[BobCooper]

Here is Part 1 of my interview with Dana where he discusses Bobby/Audrey in Season 2, his problems with Bobby's direction in Season 2, actors lobbying writers, Fire Walk With Me, and more. Part 2 will be released on Monday.

http://www.alternativenation.net/?p=53079

[Audrey Horne]

He sure was stoked about that inteview, huh? I love Dana.

Hardest part of that for me was casually mentioning that you weren't alive yet when the episodes aired. (I think I need a drink)

Great job on these!

[LostInTheMovies]

Here is Part 1 of my interview with Dana where he discusses Bobby/Audrey in Season 2, his problems with Bobby's direction in Season 2, actors lobbying writers, Fire Walk With Me, and more. Part 2 will be released on Monday.

http://www.alternativenation.net/?p=53079

Great to hear these folks talking more about their experience with Twin Peaks - I'm especially interested to hear his thoughts on working with Don S. Davis. That scene in the diner, in the season premiere, is just so phenomenal.

Curious about what he said in another interview, about Frost and Lynch giving him different advice on how to deal with his father. I'd LOVE to know more about that - what did the advice entail? Do you have a link to that interview?

Also one observation: you note that it seems like the 5-6 episodes after the killer is captured are probably what drove away the audience, but surprisingly the ratings dropped right after the season 2 premiere. By the time the killer was revealed the show was already doing very badly. In part this was because it had been re-scheduled for Saturday nights, but the critics actually turned on the show at the exact same time so it wasn't just poor timing - there was a genuine backlash in the air. It's strange to think now; like you, I was too young for the series at the time (though I was alive!) and looking back at it now, the first third of season 2 seems really strong. But for whatever reason, it was the beginning of season 2 - not the later, weaker stuff - that soured audiences and critics on the show back in 1990. Go figure!

[BobCooper]

The ratings were down from Season 1, but they didn't totally tank until after they solved the murder/Leland died. Season 2 Episode 11 got 12.1 million viewers, and by Episode 16 they were down to 7.8 million. I'd imagine it would have been easier to keep the show around with 11-13 million viewers every week.

[LostInTheMovies]

The ratings were down from Season 1, but they didn't totally tank until after they solved the murder/Leland died. Season 2 Episode 11 got 12.1 million viewers, and by Episode 16 they were down to 7.8 million. I'd imagine it would have been easier to keep the show around with 11-13 million viewers every week.

Good point. That said, given that the first season's renewal was uncertain with an average of 16-17 million & incredibly good press, I suspect 11-13 million & bad press would not have been enough to encourage a season 3.

I'm looking at the ratings again now, and you're right: though the show was doing pretty badly by ep. 9 & esp. ep. 12 on (I'm going by series #'s) - other than the killer's reveal - WOW, it really did sink even further after ep. 18! It looks like the Christmas break killed whatever lingering momentum it had (along with the Gulf War looming when they came back). The fact that reruns trumped the series finale still kind of blows my mind (that one of the reruns was Northern Exposure, widely regarded as a TP knockoff, only adds insult to injury!).

Still, the start of season 2 does seem to have been a big turning point. Most surprising to me is that the commentariat turned on the show at this point, giving up on the show when (to my mind) it was reaching its most interesting arc.

By the way, maybe you or Brad D (or someone) can help with this...when the show was put on hiatus which episodes were already in the can, which remained unshot, and which (if any) remained unscripted? From what I gather, they hadn't yet shot the finale but they had to be close to it, since Brad mentions them shooting Audrey's & John Justice Wheeler's kiss on the day the Gulf War began, long before the forced hiatus.

EDIT: Looks like the finale was written around Feb. 14 - 25, right at the time the hiatus took effect so I'm assuming it was shot when the show was confirmed to return. I wonder which other episodes hadn't been shot, though.

[Ross]

Actually, people (both viewers and critics) started to turn on the show even earlier than the second season. The first turn happened when the killer wasn't revealed at the end of season 1, and Cooper was shot. There were a lot of pissed off people, and they certainly lost viewers that never even tuned into season 2. I remember seeing a report on some entertainment show that showed people's pissed off reaction to the end of season 1. The next thing that drove viewers away was Lynch's second season premiere. The first whole section with Cooper and the Giant. The deliberately slow and meandering pace caused some to tune out. The reviews weren't kind to the episode either, and I remember one that said something to the effect that they could just hear the collective channel being turned to something else during that sequence. The Chicago Tribune ran an article a few episodes into the second season about how it should have been a miniseries, and never should have gone to a second season. And picked apart the first few episodes.

Plus the added supernatural element caused some to tune out. I remember David Letterman knocking the Giant/supernatural element of the show, or at least having fun making fun of it, and he had been a big fan of season 1.

So people wanted the killer revealed at the end of season 1. They were pissed when it wasn't. They were pissed again when it wasn't revealed in the premiere of season 2 (even though it kind of was!). And people started to tune out saying the show was just fucking with them. Along these same lines, there were even complaints about the still frame "Next On" segments that started in season 2, since people thought it was just another way of showing/revealing nothing. Another middle finger to the audience. A lot of people were gone by the time the killer was revealed. ABC's promotion for the episode even promised the tease was over, and the killer would "really" be revealed. Of course these days people complain that the killer was revealed TOO SOON. The exact opposite of most of the complaints at the time. (You have to remember that TV was so different then. There were no season/series long storylines or mythologies.)

Once people thought the show was deliberately fucking with them the backlash started, and by the time FWWM came about, it was a tidal wave. Even Lynch's series finale, which people love now, wasn't at all well received back then.

Another interesting thing, and I'd love to know if this was true for others that watched and taped the second season premiere: During the initial broadcast, in the scene near the end where the Giant tells Cooper three things, the audio goes out during most of this (although you can still hear the other noises). Making the Giant's clues inaudible. I still have my taped-off-the-air VHS with messed up sound. I didn't actually hear the scene correctly until I finally saw it on Bravo. Was it like this elsewhere? Or just in my area? Anyway, my brother was convinced it was intentional and another F-U to the audience.

[LostInTheMovies]

Actually, people (both viewers and critics) started to turn on the show even earlier than the second season. The first turn happened when the killer wasn't revealed at the end of season 1, and Cooper was shot. There were a lot of pissed off people, and they certainly lost viewers that never even tuned into season 2. I remember seeing a report on some entertainment show that showed people's pissed off reaction to the end of season 1. The next thing that drove viewers away was Lynch's second season premiere. The first whole section with Cooper and the Giant. The deliberately slow and meandering pace caused some to tune out. The reviews weren't kind to the episode either, and I remember one that said something to the effect that they could just hear the collective channel being turned to something else during that sequence. The Chicago Tribune ran an article a few episodes into the second season about how it should have been a miniseries, and never should have gone to a second season. And picked apart the first few episodes.

Plus the added supernatural element caused some to tune out. I remember David Letterman knocking the Giant/supernatural element of the show, or at least having fun making fun of it, and he had been a big fan of season 1.

So people wanted the killer revealed at the end of season 1. They were pissed when it wasn't. They were pissed again when it wasn't revealed in the premiere of season 2 (even though it kind of was!). And people started to tune out saying the show was just fucking with them. Along these same lines, there were even complaints about the still frame "Next On" segments that started in season 2, since people thought it was just another way of showing/revealing nothing. Another middle finger to the audience. A lot of people were gone by the time the killer was revealed. ABC's promotion for the episode even promised the tease was over, and the killer would "really" be revealed. Of course these days people complain that the killer was revealed TOO SOON. The exact opposite of most of the complaints at the time. (You have to remember that TV was so different then. There were no season/series long storylines or mythologies.)

Once people thought the show was deliberately fucking with them the backlash started, and by the time FWWM came about, it was a tidal wave. Even Lynch's series finale, which people love now, wasn't at all well received back then.

Another interesting thing, and I'd love to know if this was true for others that watched and taped the second season premiere: During the initial broadcast, in the scene near the end where the Giant tells Cooper three things, the audio goes out during most of this (although you can still hear the other noises). Making the Giant's clues inaudible. I still have my taped-off-the-air VHS with messed up sound. I didn't actually hear the scene correctly until I finally saw it on Bravo. Was it like this elsewhere? Or just in my area? Anyway, my brother was convinced it was intentional and another F-U to the audience.

Great post!

I was just a kid at the time, and way too young to watch, so it's been really fascinating for me to learn about how the show was received. One of the biggest surprises in my research was exactly what you mention above - that the season 2 premiere was such a huge turning point for the backlash. One writer (Howard Rosenberg in the L.A. Times) even had this ridiculous theory that Bob was giving Laura CPR, which he claimed to have observed with the help of professional editors who analyzed the sequence in detail. Reading his piece, as well as the tone of later ones, kind of makes me think he was just purposefully fucking with readers but a lot of fellow columnists apparently took him at his word, writing angrily that this was the final straw.

Weirdest part to me, looking back on it from the vantage point of decades later, is how nonchalant/quiet the reaction to the killer's reveal was. Obviously this has to do with so many people already tuning out but I can't help but think the nature of the reveal further alienated/confused viewers. (Not sure spoiler warnings are necessary on Dugpa.com but consider this one.) For one thing, of course, the use of Bob of a kind of supernatural alibi especially before ep. 16 (over-)clarified who/what he actually was - it's notable that the premiere which alienated so many also included Bob's first sustained appearance after that brief cameo in ep. 1. For another thing, pegging Leland as the killer is, to put it mildly, disturbing especially considering the sexual nature of the crime. I remember when I first watched the series on DVD having a blast trying to figure out who the killer was and, when clues started to pop up it might be him, thinking "Oh no, please don't let it be." I just knew that would change the nature of the show and the mystery, from being a playful whodunit to something much more unsettling and uncomfortable. And it did - ultimately making Twin Peaks all the better of course, but this does take viewers (even today) on a hell of an emotional roller coaster. Yet the only contemporaneous article I've seen address this discomfort head-on is Warren Goldstein's essay "Incest for the Millions" in Commonwealth, although some other articles address the newfound and discomfiting depth of the show (my favorites are by Andrew Goodwin & Joyce Millman: http://www.thecityofabsurdity.com/twinp ... iews2.html & http://www.thecityofabsurdity.com/twinp ... iews1.html).

That's also really interesting about the "Next On..." promo tags for season 2. I've never seen them but will make sure to include them (if they're not already automatically tagged on) when I do a marathon run-through of the blu-ray in a few days. Also plan on pausing to listen to the Cooper tapes & Cooper book, which I've never listened to/read before! Why not go all out?

Anyway, this whole subthread has encouraged me to start a new topic looking for anecdotes from people who watched the series at the time, though I'd love to hear them on this thread too. Particularly: how you (and people around you) reacted to the season one finale, the season two premiere, the Laura diary written by Jennifer Lynch, the killer's reveal & Maddy's murder, the death of Leland, the subsequent episodes, the hiatus from television, the season finale, and eventually FWWM. Having discovered the series & film way later, I'm also really interested in how different people responded to it but particularly at the time it was on TV and in the media. Do share!

[BobCooper]

I'll have Part 2 up later today, very late afternoon/early evening.