NON SPOILERS: Twin Peaks: Season 3 on Showtime Thread

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mtwentz
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Re: NO SPOILERS: Twin Peaks Season 3 on Showtime May 21st 2017

Postby mtwentz » Fri Mar 17, 2017 6:51 pm

WhiteLodge90 wrote:
laughingpinecone wrote:
WhiteLodge90 wrote:I get your reasoning here and I get Catherine's storyline being finished in a sense. Catherine is however very central to the show of Twin Peaks. She practically appeared in every episode and her story line with Ben is still very much so unresolved. I just know from stories and interviews. Piper is known to enjoy throwing the fans and even cast and crew in a loop about when she played the Japanese businessman and she was very eager to join the show. With someone of her clout I just think it would be a surprise not to see her.

Then again I thought it was a give in Josie and Windom would appear too and those didn't "Officially happen"

Would've counted on Windom and especially Josie cameos too, and yet :c

Going beyond Catherine's specific case for a moment, though, I think that trying to respect the old importance of characters in an ensemble cast is one of the first mistakes a continuation can make. If the writers know what to do with a character in this new context, they're in, if not, they're out, old context be damned... it may suck for their fans but forcing bland cameos would be an even worse crime imho and the whole structure would stagnate (I say this staring in Ace Attorney's general direction, among others).

That being said, I like Catherine, so if it turns out that they did have an idea of what to do with her - one that would involve a surprise entrance, even! -well, all the better!


I see what you're saying but I think there is plenty of storyline left for her and considering the amount of cast it's obvious some of the originals will likely be religated to cameo status. I for instance expect Ben Horne, Nadine and Big Ed to have very small roles in this show. Not that I want that just my gut feeling based on the actors at this stage of their careers. They could've easily fit in a Catherine tie up. Which is why I think they will. (Hopefully)


I think it's fair to expect one or more casting surprises- or at least hope for a few :-).
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Re: NO SPOILERS: Twin Peaks Season 3 on Showtime May 21st 2017

Postby GeekBoyEric74 » Fri Mar 17, 2017 6:57 pm

WhiteLodge90 wrote:
GeekBoyEric74 wrote:
WhiteLodge90 wrote:Hey everyone. Haven't been on here in a long while. Was mostly lurking and posting on spoilers thread before cast list came out. Came back to the non spoiler section to see what some of you think abut Catherine being in the new show as another disguise and thus left off cast list.

In the Oral History of Twin Peaks Frost has an interesting development with her character after the bank explosion that leaves it very much so open ended. I won't spoil it for those who haven't read the book yet. Out of all the regular cast members from the original show now not in the new one it's her that I believe has the greatest chance at returning. Maybe Heather Graham but my bet is a repeat of the fake identity with Catherine.

Thoughts?


I interviewed Piper Laurie briefly at the Carrie 40th anniversary Prom event in LA last October. I briefly brought up possibly being in Twin Peaks, even though I knew she wasn't on the cast list. She said that she wasn't in it this time, but very much looked forward to seeing it blahblahblah....but she did have a nice, big grin on her face the whole time she said it. So...I might be inclined to agree with you.


Interesting. Was it a grin like just trying to be nice and positive or was it a typical Catherine grin where you know she's up to something... lol


It felt like "up to something", but I totally admit I could be projecting, as I want her to be in it
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Re: NO SPOILERS: Twin Peaks Season 3 on Showtime May 21st 2017

Postby Snailhead » Sat Mar 18, 2017 12:30 am

No Earle please & thank you.
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Re: NO SPOILERS: Twin Peaks Season 3 on Showtime May 21st 2017

Postby Rainwater » Sat Mar 18, 2017 2:57 am

Mordeen wrote:True Romance was his best work in any form,in my opinion

Agreed. It's funny how his best film is one he didn't direct.

Snailhead wrote:No Earle please & thank you.

Well, I could see it working, as others have said, as a very brief appearance of his tortured soul in the Lodge. But it's also entirely unnecessary and I'm not expecting it.
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Re: NO SPOILERS: Twin Peaks Season 3 on Showtime May 21st 2017

Postby Dalai Cooper » Sat Mar 18, 2017 3:10 am

Yeah, maybe it's because I don't like Earle, but it feels like his story is the most definitively over of any major character and forcing him into the story would be the worst kind of "Easter egg" (well, maybe not worse than "lol let's call back to that time we had piper laurie in fucking yellowface" but that has even less chance of actually happening)
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Re: NO SPOILERS: Twin Peaks Season 3 on Showtime May 21st 2017

Postby laughingpinecone » Sat Mar 18, 2017 4:09 am

Windom's story is over alright, but IF the new episodes are going to somehow review the flaws and trauma that allowed the doppelganger to get out with BOB in tow, ie in a context of "things that wrecked Dale Cooper", I could see a cameo!
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Re: NO SPOILERS: Twin Peaks Season 3 on Showtime May 21st 2017

Postby WhiteLodge90 » Sat Mar 18, 2017 5:15 am

Dalai Cooper wrote:Yeah, maybe it's because I don't like Earle, but it feels like his story is the most definitively over of any major character and forcing him into the story would be the worst kind of "Easter egg" (well, maybe not worse than "lol let's call back to that time we had piper laurie in fucking yellowface" but that has even less chance of actually happening)


I don't want to get into a pissing contest here but I wholeheartedly disagree. I liked Earle I think if you look at the bigger picture of the storlyine he is a large reason why Cooper ended up in the black lodge. Had Earle not masterfully owned Cooper in his plan Cooper likely wouldn't have had a reason to go to the lodge. Now Bob clearly set it up that way and is clearly the ultimate greater evil but the whole point of the black lodge is having random characters pop up there who had tragic or mysterious deaths due to the evil of Bob. So his characters soul literally getting sucked out from Bob it would make perfect sense to see him justly pop up.

Second of all let's not get into a politically correct whoa is me Catherine was being racist argument. I think her in disguise was meant to be a clever one and a quirky idea of Lynch himself. Hardly meant to insult. I think they could easily do something similar with maybe obviously a better disguise this time as let's face it the facial hair was clearly fake.
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Re: NO SPOILERS: Twin Peaks Season 3 on Showtime May 21st 2017

Postby Soolsma » Sat Mar 18, 2017 5:24 am

laughingpinecone wrote:Windom's story is over alright, but IF the new episodes are going to somehow review the flaws and trauma that allowed the doppelganger to get out with BOB in tow, ie in a context of "things that wrecked Dale Cooper", I could see a cameo!


I'd think Lynch would rather pick Caroline than Earle to delve into that territory.
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Re: NO SPOILERS: Twin Peaks Season 3 on Showtime May 21st 2017

Postby mtwentz » Sat Mar 18, 2017 5:42 am

I am not sure why this 'Windom Earle is coming back' idea
keeps popping up. His storyline clearly ended in Episode 29, he was a television ratings disaster, and Lynch reportedly never liked the character in the first place.

Maybe he will come back in S3, but I certainly would not bet the farm on it.
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Re: NO SPOILERS: Twin Peaks Season 3 on Showtime May 21st 2017

Postby WhiteLodge90 » Sat Mar 18, 2017 5:50 am

mtwentz wrote:I am not sure why this 'Windom Earle is coming back' idea
keeps popping up. His storyline clearly ended in Episode 29, he was a television ratings disaster, and Lynch reportedly never liked the character in the first place.

Maybe he will come back in S3, but I certainly would not bet the farm on it.


No character clearly ended. It's Twin Peaks. The show was a ratings disaster because the network was run by morons and they moved the show to Saturday nights and the stupid James and little Nicky storylines. Lynch maybe didn't like the direction they took the character but I feel like they could easily bring him back for a cameo. I don't necessarily see it as likely but not something to be looked down upon.
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Re: NO SPOILERS: Twin Peaks Season 3 on Showtime May 21st 2017

Postby Rudagger » Sat Mar 18, 2017 5:50 am

WhiteLodge90 wrote:Second of all let's not get into a politically correct whoa is me Catherine was being racist argument. I think her in disguise was meant to be a clever one and a quirky idea of Lynch himself. Hardly meant to insult. I think they could easily do something similar with maybe obviously a better disguise this time as let's face it the facial hair was clearly fake.


Sure, it was disguise in this case, but, it still treads in very dangerous ground, evoking memories of white actors playing Fu Manchu or Charlie Chan, or Mickey Rooney in Breakfast at Tiffany's. I think it's one of those cases where historical context trumps story context. I'm frankly surprised that anyone let it fly. And it's weird too, when you consider how progressive the portrayal of Denise is, which happens in the same season. Anyway, the Tojimora stuff is definitely a storyline when watching that I feel just .. weird about (and I'm a white person). It's just one of those things that I see and feel 'wow, this wouldn't fly today' (like in Ace Venture, 'Einhorn is a man!', or Lethal Weapon with the protagonist casually dropping homophobic slurs ..)

Anyway, shows these days are under far more scrutiny (look at the stuff being flung at Iron Fist right now..), so, I am curious about how they'll handle Denise. They're going to have to be very careful in order to not end up with a Twitter kerfuffle over it all. Regardless on where you stand about political correctness (and this isn't really the place for that debate so), it would suck to see Twin Peaks get overshadowed by controversy.

On the topic of Earle, I'm fine either way with him showing up or not (even though I really dislike the character, if like the function/purpose he gave the show when it was spinning tires). Frankly though, I think they're going to avoid anything that draws too much attention to the weaker aspects of Season 2. Duchovny's back because his character was a gem in the rough, but, I think, based on Secret History, that they want people to be a little .. fuzzy when it comes to the canon of Twin Peaks (that is to say, even though something like Owl Cave will forever be relevant as it lead to the Black Lodge, I think they might be happy enough never having to show an awkward Indiana Jones lever conveniently poking out of a wall in Season 3). Viewers will just kind of know the bullet points, and not really worry about the sometimes weak path that got those characters to their interesting destinations (and that's how I feel about Earle; he got Coop into the Lodge, so, I guess he fulfilled some interesting story purpose .. but I still think he's probably not worth revisiting).
Last edited by Rudagger on Sat Mar 18, 2017 5:57 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: NO SPOILERS: Twin Peaks Season 3 on Showtime May 21st 2017

Postby Dalai Cooper » Sat Mar 18, 2017 5:55 am

Maybe they should try out blackface this time, I'm sure as long as it's meant to be a clever disguise and a quirky idea of lynch himself only the most sensitive PC viewers could possibly object
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Re: NO SPOILERS: Twin Peaks Season 3 on Showtime May 21st 2017

Postby mtwentz » Sat Mar 18, 2017 6:16 am

WhiteLodge90 wrote:
mtwentz wrote:I am not sure why this 'Windom Earle is coming back' idea
keeps popping up. His storyline clearly ended in Episode 29, he was a television ratings disaster, and Lynch reportedly never liked the character in the first place.

Maybe he will come back in S3, but I certainly would not bet the farm on it.


No character clearly ended. It's Twin Peaks. The show was a ratings disaster because the network was run by morons and they moved the show to Saturday nights and the stupid James and little Nicky storylines. Lynch maybe didn't like the direction they took the character but I feel like they could easily bring him back for a cameo. I don't necessarily see it as likely but not something to be looked down upon.


Yeah, you are right about the possibility of a small role for Earle in the Black Lodge. That would be kind of freaky.
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Re: NO SPOILERS: Twin Peaks Season 3 on Showtime May 21st 2017

Postby mtwentz » Sat Mar 18, 2017 6:22 am

Rudagger wrote:
WhiteLodge90 wrote:Second of all let's not get into a politically correct whoa is me Catherine was being racist argument. I think her in disguise was meant to be a clever one and a quirky idea of Lynch himself. Hardly meant to insult. I think they could easily do something similar with maybe obviously a better disguise this time as let's face it the facial hair was clearly fake.


Sure, it was disguise in this case, but, it still treads in very dangerous ground, evoking memories of white actors playing Fu Manchu or Charlie Chan, or Mickey Rooney in Breakfast at Tiffany's. I think it's one of those cases where historical context trumps story context. I'm frankly surprised that anyone let it fly. And it's weird too, when you consider how progressive the portrayal of Denise is, which happens in the same season. Anyway, the Tojimora stuff is definitely a storyline when watching that I feel just .. weird about (and I'm a white person). It's just one of those things that I see and feel 'wow, this wouldn't fly today' (like in Ace Venture, 'Einhorn is a man!', or Lethal Weapon with the protagonist casually dropping homophobic slurs ..)

Anyway, shows these days are under far more scrutiny (look at the stuff being flung at Iron Fist right now..), so, I am curious about how they'll handle Denise. They're going to have to be very careful in order to not end up with a Twitter kerfuffle over it all. Regardless on where you stand about political correctness (and this isn't really the place for that debate so), it would suck to see Twin Peaks get overshadowed by controversy.

On the topic of Earle, I'm fine either way with him showing up or not (even though I really dislike the character, if like the function/purpose he gave the show when it was spinning tires). Frankly though, I think they're going to avoid anything that draws too much attention to the weaker aspects of Season 2. Duchovny's back because his character was a gem in the rough, but, I think, based on Secret History, that they want people to be a little .. fuzzy when it comes to the canon of Twin Peaks (that is to say, even though something like Owl Cave will forever be relevant as it lead to the Black Lodge, I think they might be happy enough never having to show an awkward Indiana Jones lever conveniently poking out of a wall in Season 3). Viewers will just kind of know the bullet points, and not really worry about the sometimes weak path that got those characters to their interesting destinations (and that's how I feel about Earle; he got Coop into the Lodge, so, I guess he fulfilled some interesting story purpose .. but I still think he's probably not worth revisiting).


You know, it never occurred to me that the Tojamura angle might evoke the past anti-Asian racism, but now that I think about it, yes it does.

One of my good friends (since passed away) was a Chinese American who was working with people in Hollywood to get more roles for Asian actors. It seems we've advanced a little bit in that regard, but not that much.

If it's any consolation, the portrayal of Nordic peoples wasn't exactly complementary either.
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Re: NO SPOILERS: Twin Peaks Season 3 on Showtime May 21st 2017

Postby Mr. Reindeer » Sat Mar 18, 2017 6:27 am

Rudagger wrote:Sure, it was disguise in this case, but, it still treads in very dangerous ground, evoking memories of white actors playing Fu Manchu or Charlie Chan, or Mickey Rooney in Breakfast at Tiffany's. I think it's one of those cases where historical context trumps story context. I'm frankly surprised that anyone let it fly. And it's weird too, when you consider how progressive the portrayal of Denise is, which happens in the same season.


I don't find it that surprising: Lynch's work tends to do a great job portraying strong female characters, and MD was a progressive LGBTQ love story, but people of color are almost entirely absent from his work. The former i attribute to his fascination with sex, psychology and human behavior; the latter is likely a result of growing up in homogenously white environs during his formative years (Maine-born Stephen King has similar issues in his work, but unlike Lynch, continuously tries to write about African American characters with IMO frequently embarrassing results). Bob Engels has said he and Lynch hit it off after Engels told his favorite joke, which Lynch loved: "When do Chinese people go to the dentist? Tooth hurty!" (Yuk yuk.)

Still, I doubt we have much to worry about on the new show. I'm sure Frost and Showtime would prevent any major embarrassments, and I'm pretty confident even Lynch understands the boundaries of good taste in this area in today's climate.
Last edited by Mr. Reindeer on Sat Mar 18, 2017 11:53 am, edited 1 time in total.

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