What's Canon

Discussion of Twin Peaks and Fire Walk With Me

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jupstin
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What's Canon

Postby jupstin » Thu Apr 26, 2007 5:59 pm

What do you guys consider to be canon? I'd love to include Cooper's Tapes and Laura's Diary, but not the cards. Also, I think the Log Lady intros are quite important...what else?
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Audrey Horne
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Postby Audrey Horne » Thu Apr 26, 2007 7:55 pm

Since Twin Peaks to me is such a strong visual experience -at least the first half. To me, it's Laura Palmer's homecoming photo; the closeup shot of her wrapped in plastic, and the series of Cooper and Audrey in the Double R Diner, and Audrey stills in the Double R. All still timeless.

The tapes, diary were fun but seemed more like merchandising propoganda -did I buy them? Heck yeah.
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Postby imhotep » Sat Apr 28, 2007 1:43 pm

To me the diary is very important to the world of Twin Peaks.
It's the old testament.
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MFAP
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Postby MFAP » Sun Apr 29, 2007 10:46 pm

What exactly do you mean by canon?

Do you you mean things that are offically part of Twin Peaks continuity?

Or Twin peaks media that fits together and doesn't have any inconstancies?

I think of 'canon' as the former and in keeping with this thinking I could only include the series and the movie. There are SO many inconstancies with the diary and coopers tapes that I can't bring myself to include them.

I haven't seen the card set or the access guide so I am not sure what to make of them.

Is there a continuity thread?

Thoughts anyone?
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The Magician
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Postby The Magician » Sat Oct 13, 2007 10:46 pm

Fire Walk With Me should NOT be considered canon. Only the 30 episodes of Twin Peaks should.

There are SEVERAL reasons why I feel this way, and none of them question FWWM's merits as good film making. However, it is too drastically stylistically different, it has MAJOR continuity errors, it takes away far more than it adds, it has numerous character inconsistencies, it adds an unnecessary jumble of unexplainable questions that have no place in the series, it misses many of the points of the series and counteracts key theories, and it spoils the enjoyment of the series by giving too much away that did not to be explained (while not explaining what should have been).

Again, I feel that FWWM is a well made film for the most part, but it does not belong beside the television series. It should be looked at as an interesting multi-media spin off of TP the same as the tapes and diary.

That's how I feel.
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Postby TheArm » Mon Oct 15, 2007 3:49 pm

Really? I would absolutely consider FWWM to be canon. I consider all 30 episodes, FWWM, and the officially-licensed books (the diary, Cooper's autobiography, and sure, I guess the Access Guide too) to be primarily what makes up the TP canon. While I agree there are significant continuity errors between the series and FWWM, there are also significant continuity errors between the episodes and stories themselves in the series. I just smile and love the TP legacy even with all of its flaws. :D
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Postby Jerry Horne » Mon Oct 15, 2007 4:07 pm

TheArm wrote:Really? I would absolutely consider FWWM to be canon. I consider all 30 episodes, FWWM, and the officially-licensed books (the diary, Cooper's autobiography, and sure, I guess the Access Guide too) to be primarily what makes up the TP canon. While I agree there are significant continuity errors between the series and FWWM, there are also significant continuity errors between the episodes and stories themselves in the series. I just smile and love the TP legacy even with all of its flaws. :D


Ditto!

:D
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The Magician
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Postby The Magician » Mon Oct 15, 2007 5:03 pm

As optimistic as you guys are, FWWM really rubbed me the wrong way.

But, I get to ignore it as much as I want, and you guys get to enjoy it as much as you want! I was simply offering my opinion on what I considered cannon.

David Lynch made FWWM for himself and for the TP fans, so I am glad you guys like it. I always felt it was a great movie on it's own merits, but does not fit in with the rest of TP. Ah well...
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Brad D
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Postby Brad D » Tue Oct 16, 2007 6:12 am

i am not a big fan of FWWM. i think it was an unfortunate departure from the series, but future sequels may have helped this film make more sense. i maybe have watched the film in its completion twice.

in the my life, my tapes book there is a passage where coop has a dream about a man screaming trying to get into a room, and his mother has the same dream and tells coop to never let the man into the room. is this a reference to bob?
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Postby Red Room » Tue Oct 16, 2007 8:47 am

The Magician wrote:David Lynch made FWWM for himself and for the TP fans...

Hmm, I'm not so sure about David making FWWM for "the fans", but I agree he made it for himself. Which is exactly who he should be making it for, as he has done with 99% of his work.

As for what's canon ' Like it or loathe it, FWWM is undeniably 100% canon. It may not reflect everyone's vision for Twin Peaks, but it is the story David wanted to tell, and he is the show's (main) creator.

RR
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Postby Gabriel » Tue Oct 16, 2007 8:37 pm

FWWM was bound to be stylistically different, given that it was made for a different medium. It was a way of looking at the concept from a different 'angle,' just as the books gig. So I regard the shows, the books and the movie as canon. It could even be argued that The List of Seven fits in there!
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The Magician
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Postby The Magician » Wed Oct 17, 2007 4:15 pm

It is not only the stylistic difference of FWWM that makes me want to consider it non-canon. The film, if put into continuity, alters aspects of the show, and negatively.

Bobby has never taken a human life before. In episode 4 or 5 I believe, Bobby and Dr. Jacoby have this exchange:

Dr. Jacoby "Have you every killed anyone before, Bobby?" Bobby (without looking nervous or reflective in any way) "No, but my dad has."

If we are to believe the movie, than what he said was a lie, and it ruins the bad-boy exterior, but ultimately harmless interior that made Bobby Briggs so endearing. He is now a murderer.

Dale Cooper had no premonitions or connections to Laura Palmer before coming to Twin Peaks, nor was he called to the city. I thought that was a particularly troubling addition to the story.

I really did not get the impression that Donna knew much about Laura's life. It feels like in the first season of the show, Donna, James and Maddy are discovering all of Laura's secrets or the first time (James knew she was on drugs, but that's it). In FWWM, Donna actually attends these seedy doings. I didn't think that fit in too well...

The one armed man did NOT know Bob was in Leland... Otherwise it would have been no problem for him to find him. This made no sense to me. He shouldn't have even been in the film.

And is it just me, or does Laura really never seem like the wonderful girl that everyone in the town loved? I never got the sense of that. It was like her private life was also her public life... She was never much of a sweet, innocent girl.

So, besides all those inaccuracies, and the lack of potential great scenes (for example, her last call to Dr. Jacoby, her last tutor of Johnny Horne, her last tutor to Josie Packard, her last visit to Harold Smith, her last diary entry, Waldo landing on her shoulders and pecking her, "Bit the bullet, baby", and the dream she writes about in her diary, serving as a reversal of the dream Coop has of her in episode 2) there were three aspects of the film I did not like.

1) I wish they had not spoiled the mystery for everyone! There are many ways the could have hid the fact that Leland was the murderer. He could have been wearing the same mask and outfit he wore when he stalked Maddy and attacked Jacoby. And much of him could have been substituted with Bob. There should have been clues, and nods to who he was, but no outright explanations, therefore the film could have still acted as a prequel.

2) The film was too narrowly focused. It should have had Laura been the primary focus, as much as Coop was in the series, but still given much screen time and alternate scenes to supporting cast. I wanted to see more of James and Donna, Donna and Mike, Bobby and Shelly, and some great scenes between Ben Horne and Catherine Packard making their earlier plans for the mill. Although, all the F.B.I. should have been cut out of it completely! There was too much Coop! The film should have focused in the city of Twin Peaks and it's cast. The scenes with Bowie and Issac were like the Evelyn Marsh scenes x 10. Too removed from the story.

3) There was too much supernatural. What was great about the series is how subdued the paranormal was, especially in the beginning. YOU ONLY SEE THE RED ROOM TWICE IN THE ENTIRE 30 EPISODE RUN! That's what made it so special. In FWWM, there should have only been three instances of the Black Lodge: Mrs. Tremond and her nephew speaking to Laura during a Meals on Wheels delivery, Laura's dream (which wasn't even included) that should have been a reversal of Coop's episode 2 dream (and should have been Coops only appearance), and then the end, after she dies, should show her in the black lodge (maybe confronting her doppleganger?)

Whew. Hope this isn't too off-topic, but I've always wanted to express my views on how FWWM could have been an amazing film. As it is, though, it feels too removed from Twin Peaks to be considered canon, and is the only "episode" of TP I think isn't very good.
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TheArm
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Postby TheArm » Wed Oct 17, 2007 6:17 pm

I totally respect your opinion on this! It's fun to argue about though, isn't it? :)

So on that note (and with all due respect, of course), I would disagree with a few things you've said. Yes, I agree that Bobby said that to Dr. Jacoby so it may not seem to fit, but James does talk to Donna in the pilot about how Laura told him that "Bobby killed this guy." So I always figured that Deputy Cliff's murder tied into that.

Donna was drugged for much of the encounter in Canada; the next morning with Laura, she's pretty hazy on the events. And this is really her first insight into what Laura's life is, it's not like she's Ronnette and they're hangin' in the brothels together. And likewise, Donna does make the comment "I knew her; I knew her better than she thought I did" in the pilot, so Donna may have been a bit oblivious as to the details, but I always thought she was aware of what was going on with Laura but chose to turn a blind eye, as did most of the town (as Bobby talks about in his monologue at Laura's funeral).

Re: spoiling the mystery, I don't think it was supposed to be a mystery at all. Leland had already been unmasked as the killer almost 2 years prior to the movie and it was a big deal in pop culture for 5 mins., so I think Lynch & co probably assumed that if you were going to pay $$ to see FWWM, you most likely were aware of this fact already.

As far as Laura not seeming like America's sweetheart, this I actually completely agreed with when I first saw the film. The completely self-destructive, perpetually coked-up Laura Palmer we see here doesn't seem to jive with the "sweetness and light" image that the series painted of her, but maybe that's the point? That (again, like Bobby said) she was clearly in trouble and nobody did anything to help (not that they could, really). Also remember, the movie only follows the 7 days leading up to her murder, so she was at the end of her rope at this point.

And re: the supernatural content, yeah, you could argue that this is one of the things about Season 2 that ultimately alienated a lot of its viewers. I showed the series to my roommate recently, and she was really into it as long as it was a quirky small-town murder mystery. But as Season 2 progressed and Bob, the Lodges & co. came to the foreground, the less engaged she was; she felt it became increasingly silly, over-the-top and self-indulgent to the point where she couldn't take it seriously anymore (she found Leland/BOB's murder of Maddy laughable!). I think it was a dangerous move to switch from mystery to the more "niche" horror/fantasy genre, and while I loved it and I love that it's an even bigger part of FWWM, it was probably to the show's (and the movie's) detriment in the mainstream.
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coolspringsj
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Re: What's Canon

Postby coolspringsj » Fri Aug 08, 2008 4:21 pm

It's definitely the Pilot, 29 episodes, and FWWM.

The others (Diary, Cooper book and Tape, Access Guide) are just window dressing. But if I were to write some fanfic (good fanfic mind you!), I would probably toss in some nuggets from these, then Unseen Twin Peaks, the FWWM script with Deleted Scenes, Collectable Card Art, Twin Peaks Gazette, WIP, etc. There is a wealth of information for new tales out there.

But the bottom line is it's the series and the film. You can usually creatively get your way through any continuity errors with a fertile imagination.
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Re: What's Canon

Postby whatif » Sat Aug 09, 2008 10:32 pm

I love it all, and FWWM is too superb to be dismissed. I often think that it's FWWM that made the Series great, as it gave the Series such a deeper meaning and explored places far beyond where the Series went.

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