The Owl Cave Ring - thematic significance

[Fernanda]

http://en.booksee.org/book/1273403

"In Mayan oral tradition, maize is usually personified as a woman. The acquisition of this woman through bridal capture constitutes one of the basic Mayan myths."

http://www.themystica.org/mythical-folk ... aturn.html

http://journals.cambridge.org/action/di ... aid=318287

https://www.academia.edu/425150/The_May ... s_of_Dance

[LostInTheMovies]

http://www.themystica.org/mythical-folk ... aturn.html

Saturn is an appropriate referrant in other ways too, since he ate his own children:

Even looks a bit like Bob in Goya's rendering.

[Fernanda]

http://www.dugpa.com/forum/viewtopic.ph ... ble#p16195

"He also made reference to a scene that involved Sheriff Truman driving backwards that I believe he said was also shot, as well as shots of a whole bunch of stuff (insects, mainly, from the sounds of it) that existed under the formica table."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Formica

[LostInTheMovies]

I think Fernanda's idea that the symbol evokes corn is spot on. There's something very close to Mayan/native American corn worship going on with the whole garmonbozia thing, although turned on its head.Iit's like an evil version of the Popul Vuh.

The whole corn theology makes sense too given the war whoop of the Little Man/electricity poles. In a way, you could argue that Fire Walk With Me re-emphasizes the American (particularly Native American) qualities of the TP world & mythology, whereas the show has a more Eastern, and a times European (Blavatsky, etc) bent, despite Hawk's presence (and of course you'd be hard-pressed to find a more all-American spirit guide than Maj. Briggs). Although at the same time, as already noted, FWWM also doubles down on the Indian (as in India, i.e. The Vedas, not Native American) elements too. I'd dobt any of it was very deliberate but however it came about, the rooting of these figures more deeply in American soil works really well for me.

Reading all the Mayan stuff makes me wish I could link them more heavily with Jeffries but alas, it appears Mayan civilization did not really extend down that far. What was going on there in terms of agriculture and/or religious belief?

[LostInTheMovies]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Formica

Some interesting links here...slave-making behavior, mound-building, thrive in wooded areas (though not "dark woods" - they need sunlight, which - completely by happenstance, given the unexpected weather! - they got in FWWM). And of course their name isn't a coincidence - the resin used for Formica tables is apparently derived from these insects (thanks, wiki). Something Lynch, with his fascination with insects, may have known.

Call it entomological etymology...

I recently interviewed Martha Nochimson who noted (disapprovingly) that Engels liked to be "trickier" than Lynch. I wonder if he had a hand in any of these concepts. Then again, he seems to be even less interested in subtext than Lynch, so most likely not. As Coop said, "Coincidence and fate feature largely in our lives..."

[harmolodic]

Just a few more observations along these lines...

While the Maya worshipped corn (indeed, in the Popul Vu, humans are ultimately made of corn), this belief system didn't extend as far south as Jeffries ended up...

I've spent a good bit of time with Mayan communities in Guatemala. Not to belabor the point or take things too far out of context, but they are--to this day--deeply invested in the earth and its plants and animals. Owls in Guatemala have a particularly potent significance.

One Mayan myth--the siguanaba--is usually portrayed as a beautiful young woman of questionable intent who reveals herself to have a horse's face. I've often wondered of Sarah's white horse is related in any way...others deal with the Duende, imp-like evil spirits in the woods.

Again, one doesn't want to ascribe too much intent to the writers but clearly we're dealing with New World archetypes here. And that's important--Twin Peaks is an American myth.

[harmolodic]

Call if entomological etymology...

Throw in a moldy ear and I'm with ya.

[Fernanda]

What was going on there in terms of agriculture and/or religious belief?

Well he is wearing a crucifix, so if the Mayan/Indigenous motifs have any pertinence I guess that would add to the whole syncretism going on.

One Mayan myth--the siguanaba--is usually portrayed as a beautiful young woman of questionable intent who reveals herself to have a horse's face.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2uywtfbDwmg (0:43)

[harmolodic]

What was going on there in terms of agriculture and/or religious belief?

Well he was wearing a crucifix, so if the Mayan/Indigenous motifs have any pertinence I guess that would add to the whole syncretism going on.

One Mayan myth--the siguanaba--is usually portrayed as a beautiful young woman of questionable intent who reveals herself to have a horse's face.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2uywtfbDwmg (0:43)

HAHA omg that's amazing...!

[Jasper]

I finally made this graphic I've been meaning to create, showing how the Germanic Odal Rune could possibly relate to the Owl Cave symbol, and the Owl Cave Ring symbol. Notice the meaning of the rune.

The earliest version of (or perhaps precursor to) the Odal rune that I've found is in the symbols of the Vinca culture (Old European, pre-Indo-European), from the 7500-year-old Tartaria tablets found in Romania. These constitute "the oldest excavated example of "proto-writing" in the world".

[Fernanda]

Aside from Sarah Palmer reading a book on how to speak German, that somehow reminds me of Ben Horne's origins and the Shakespearean routine from episode 2.

"But thy eternal summer
shall not fade
Nor lose possession
of that fair thou owest
Nor shall death brag..."

When Laura tells Harold that Bob wants to be in her or he'll kill her, that would indicate that her taking the ring means Bob won't be able to take possession of her. In the script Bob tells Laura that the ring "is not important." Since it was first 'offered' by the arm (after Teresa had it), that places Mike at the center of things. I can't explain why, but I also think it is important that the ring is first shown in connection to the Red Room but only mentioned by name above the convenience store, followed by MFAP's and Bob's maniacal/seizure inducing laugh. As it's been discussed before, at the very least that shows that MFAP has second intentions and is not completely in line with Bob, whether because of a phantom feeling that still connects him with 'good' Gerard or something else, since Gerard is seen laughing outside of the traincar. Perhaps he is using Bob to gain access to the Red Room (which, in his diminished form, MFAP/Mike cannot enter on his own so he takes a ride on Bob's momentum instead.) Either way, Leland does say that "they wanted lives" and that "they made [him] kill that girl Teresa." The ring and the table are the same color but composed of different materials. Also the ring seems more reminiscent of the sumptuous Red Room and the black table with the golden shell pedestal instead of the "barren, filthy" place where the formica table with a hole on top is at. If Mike's intentions are to eat Garmonbozia after all, it seems there are certain 'rules' he has to obey otherwise he could just grab the first bowl that was in front of him. I think the Garmonbozia of the convenience store/marketplace (where apparently it was canned/preserved, more on that later) is an undifferentiated substance for them and, as Lynch told MJA, it is also like gold and should be treated as such. You mentioned the Vedic Soma elsewhere; Soma is "an intoxicating juice from a plant of disputed identity" (http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/soma) which can be replaced by any other in sacrificial ritual (but not without consequence) while also meaning "the body of an organism" (root word of 'somatic'). The fact that it only acquires the 'label' of pain and suffering later in the Red Room (where it is connected with blood) is apparently what was missing for those entities (or some of them) to go hungry for it, whereas before it was more analogous to their rarified status as "gods". Somehow this seems connected with Mrs. Tremond not wanting to eat the corn/yellow food in episode 9 when she is comparatively sicker than before Laura was killed; she actually looks quite 'dashing' outside of the Double R (either that or she was dressed for a funeral) but it also reinforces the notion that what's happening is a perversion/co-optation of an originally 'pure' idea, or a "wrong interpretation" of it/of the clues which, according to the Log Lady, is actually what constitutes 'our world', the same 'our world' mentioned in the original script of the film, but by that time it was actually 'their world.' In that same Log Lady intro she opposes 'creamed corn' with 'wild strawberry' and the happy song of the meadowlark (see "The Cowboy and The Frenchman.") The point being that if Soma is a harbinger of immortality consumed by mortal worshipers, in Twin Peaks it becomes, in the figure of Garmombozia, a symbol for 'immortal' beings (even if Bob is capable of bleeding, albeit through the looking glass) in their wanting to partake in the 'Flesh World.' In a mythopoeic/manichaeistic sense, in TP that can either proceed from the natural order of things and account for reality itself and the process of life and death, desire and fulfillment, or it can be a hindrance to be avoided.

http://www.dugpa.com/forum/viewtopic.ph ... oma#p30900

"The drink is prepared by priests pounding the plants with stones. The juice so gathered is filtered through lamb's wool, and mixed with other ingredients (including cow milk.)"

Lost Highway:
"Different kinds of fruits grow and ripen.
It takes many strawberries to fill a bucket.
But it's worth it when you know that...
[...] and a glass of fresh, cold milk from grandmother's cow."

"Maize was definitely seen as a gift from the gods. One version of the creation myth states that when the Medicine Rite was first created by the good spirits, each of them contributed something that would help the humans overcome the evil spirits. After all the spirits had made their contributions, Grandmother (Earth) came forward and spoke to Hare: “Look at my breast, grandson.” Then, unexpectedly, there grew from one of Grandmother’s breasts a plant that no-one had ever seen before. It grew immediately from her nipple into a full stalk with ripe ears of corn ready to eat. “This, grandson,” said Earth, “is maize. The two-legged walkers may eat its corn forevermore.” As sexual as the story may be, it also has a practical usage: when the corn is white and milky in the centre, it is time to harvest the crop."

[LostInTheMovies]

That is quite a find. It also reminded me of Ben Horne's Shakespeare routine from episode 2.

"But thy eternal summer
shall not fade
Nor lose possession
of that fair thou owest
Nor shall death brag..."

I'll be editing the post as I go along so bear with me.

When Laura tells Harold that Bob wants to be in her or he'll kill her that would reinforce the idea that her taking the ring means that Bob won't be able to take possession of her. Since the ring was first 'offered' by the arm, that places Mike at the center of things. I can't explain why, but I also think it is important that the ring is first shown in connection to the Red Room but only mentioned by name above the convenience store, followed by MFAP's and Bob's maniac laugh. Like it's been discussed before, at the very least it shows that MFAP has second intentions and is not completely in line with Bob, whether because of a phantom feeling that still connects him with 'good' Gerard or something else since Gerard is seen laughing outside of the traincar. Either way, Leland does say that "they wanted lives" and that they made him kill that girl Teresa. The ring and the table are the same color but the ring seems more reminiscent of the sumptuous Red Room and the black table with the golden shell pedestal instead of the "barren, filthy" place where the formica table with a hole on top is at. If Mike's intentions are to eat Garmonbozia after all, it seems there are certain 'rules' he has to obey otherwise he could just grab the first bowl that was in front of him. I think the Garmonbozia of the convenience store (where apparently it was canned/preserved) is an undifferentiated substance for them. You mentioned the Vedic Soma elsewhere; Soma is "an intoxicating juice from a plant of disputed identity" (http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/soma) which can be replaced for any other in sacrificial ritual (but not without consequence) while also meaning "the body of an organism" (root word of 'somatic'). The fact that it only acquires the 'label' of pain and suffering later in the Red Room (where it is connected with blood) is apparently what was missing for those enteties (or some of them) to go hungry for it, whereas before it was more analogous to their rarified status as "gods". Somehow this seems connected with Mrs. Tremond not wanting to eat it in episode 9 when she is comparatively sicker than before Laura was killed; she actually looks quite 'dashing' outside of the Double R (either that or she was dressed for a funeral) but it also reinforces the notion that what's happening is a perversion/co-optation of an originally 'pure' idea, or a "wrong interpretation" of it (of the clues) which, according to the Log Lady, actually constitues 'our world', the same 'our world' which is mentioned in the original script from FWWM. In that same Log Lady intro she clearly opposes 'creamed corn' with 'wild strawberry' and the happy song of the meadowlark (see "The Cowboy and The Frenchman".) The point being that if Soma is a harbinger of immortality consumed by mortal worshipers, in Twin Peaks it becomes, in the figure of Garmombozia, a symbol for their wanting to partake in the 'Flesh World.' In a mythopoeic sense, in TP that can either proceed from the natural order of things and account for reality itself and the process of life and death, desire and fulfillment, or it can be a hindrance to be avoided.

http://www.dugpa.com/forum/viewtopic.ph ... oma#p30900

"The drink is prepared by priests pounding the plants with stones. The juice so gathered is filtered through lamb's wool, and mixed with other ingredients (including cow milk.)"

Lost Highway:
"Different kinds of fruits grow and ripen.
It takes many strawberries to fill a bucket.
But it's worth it when you know that...
(...) and a glass of fresh, cold milk from grandmother's cow."


in place with the and while the formic acid/formaldehyde that composes the table aludes to the impending death of the wearer of the ring, the plastic used to wrap the victims body ('there was a stillness, like the formica table top') Teresa's blackmail puts an end to the status quo as far as Leland's escapades were concerned. While he was abusing Laura he could also double down on what he got from that by sleeping with Teresa mainly because the resemblance between the two. What that doesn't explain is why Laura seems so surprised and horrified when she finds Leland

The ring, sowing of the seed (Nochimson) corncob in its original state

To return to the original question though - what do you feel is the thematic significance of these connections? We know the ring connects the wearer to the Lodge but what precisely does that connection mean in psychological/emotional terms for Laura, for Leland, etc? I guess my question is - what does the Lodge mythology relate to, outside of the Lodge mythology and other historical mythologies?

As for Laura's surprise...isn't it pretty well-established that she only sees Bob when her father is channeling him?

[Fernanda]

~

[LostInTheMovies]

As for Laura's surprise...isn't it pretty well-established that she only sees Bob when her father is channeling him?

That's the thing, I think it has more to do with whomever is channeling a paternal figure that connects that figure with Bob, whether it is Leland or Leo or Cooper himself.

Not sure what you mean by this - when does she see Bob in place of someone other than Leland?

Also I take back my original question because there are times when Leland seems to channel Bob but Laura only sees Leland (for example, the "wash your hands" scene).

The MFAP shows Laura the ring and immediately looks at Cooper. Laura sits on his lap at the end of the script and Cooper's face is digitally altered in the Entire Mystery Set.

How so? I remember you mentioning this before - you're referring to artwork on the set itself, right?

Leo, aside from his role in the diary, has the masked man behind him and he's the one Lynch shows after Laura's dream with the ring scrubbing the floor to get rid of some dirt

Not sure about the connection you're establishing here - can you expand on it?

whereas Leland disappears when Leo leaves the cabin (it is only implied that he hides somewhere but the two of them feel strangely complicit.)

Consciously complicit, or simply on a psychic/subconscious level as carriers of the "Bob" disease (I think that's what you're saying)?

[Fernanda]

Consciously complicit, or simply on a psychic/subconscious level as carriers of the "Bob" disease (I think that's what you're saying)?

Not consciously in the usual sense (and who knows what the other senses truly are, especially the way Lynch depicts it) but if the masked man from episode 2 is any indication, something is happening there. There is also the fact that Gerard sold the Circle Brand boots to Leo Johnson and what really happened during that exchange to consider.

How so? I remember you mentioning this before - you're referring to artwork on the set itself, right?

Why use MJA's likeness but not Cooper's?

Not sure about the connection you're establishing here - can you expand on it?

Can do. But sleep deprivation is a one way ticket to temporary psychosis.

I will add though, if one were to ask whether "Laura is simply a passive victim/witness to the power struggle between Mike and Bob, and if the significance of the ending of FWWM had less to do with her than with them, then why structure the movie around her instead of them?", and to avoid falling into solipsism, that in dealing with her own demons (not unlike "half of the high school girls in America") Laura finds herself inserted in a 'larger' struggle which, while not necessarily between Mike and Bob (only), has a co-dependent origination with her psychological truth. While the film is structured around her, she is also presented as the next victim of an evil that befalls humanity/femininity/America in general, which Lynch represents in all its dimensions given what Jeffries goes through, though Laura's iconic status has a centrality (and a 'finality') which the other victims/observers gravitate towards, even the nurse who at first seems peripheral but ends up receiving the same message as Laura does. That apparent passivity of the victim/witness matches up with the mechanically propelled semblance of agency (and of life) of the automaton, which is a typical symbol of the uncanny, and it exemplifies the same alienating excess of, for example, Mike and Bob's dynamics.

"Buddhism asserts that external reality is an illusion, and sometimes this position is misunderstood as Solipsism. Buddhist doctrine, though, holds that both the mind and external phenomena are both equally transient, and that they arise from each other. The mind cannot exist without external phenomena, nor can external phenomena exist without the mind. This is a process known as Pratityasamutpada, or "co-dependent origination."

http://www.dugpa.com/forum/download/file.php?id=2228

On the level of psychological reality, as the article above describes, even if Bob is a 'pure idea', he is not the result of a paranoid/schizoid hallucination and it is because he exists that she drugs herself, among other things, and not the reverse. As Lynch puts it, in expressing his global (more like universal) concerns by way of specificity: "It's [Laura's] take on [it.] That's what it was all about - the loneliness, shame, guilt, confusion and devastation of the victim of incest. It also dealt with the torment of the father. The war in him." But the uncanny excesses in that depiction, beyond what Kubrick/Nabokov does in Lolita, along with the introduction of all the layers of characterization and ontological/cosmological significance, are a result of the much broader canvas that is being used. That is to say, the whole idea of the corn as he presents it (and no matter who eats it) is as much an extention of Laura's feelings of being 'long gone' as it is the place where the tragic/personal (the Sadean 'play of pain'/"where there was once one, now there is two") meet the mythopoeic ("or were there always two?"/the shot of the owl's POV at the end of episode 16 being the same as Cooper's running through the woods after Maj. Briggs disappears), just as the experience of time and space from a comet's perspective is different from the observer's.