Why doesn't Cooper speak backwards in the Black Lodge?

[Ygdrasel]

Cooper is a human. Only spirits speak that way.

Also, it's not "backwards" at all.

[Xryztofer]

Cooper is a human. Only spirits speak that way.

What about Windom Earle?

[Ygdrasel]

Cooper is a human. Only spirits speak that way.

What about Windom Earle?

As per my own theories about the Black Lodge, it traps souls that face it with "imperfect courage" and over time assimilates them as full-time inhabitants (hence why Laura also speaks in that strange way in the Lodge, she's been trapped in there for a fair bit of time).

My take on it is that Windom underestimated the powers of the Lodge and was quick to falter once faced with the reality of it. So he fell to the Lodge and, having already opened himself willingly to its dark powers, assimilated more rapidly than usual. This is why his speech had already begun to adapt to the Lodge's cadence and also why he wanted Cooper's soul: If Cooper gave his soul up, Windom could escape and leave Coop in his place. Of course, as it turns out, Bob stole that plan for himself.

Naturally, season three may destroy all of this speculation. But until then.

[Gabriel]

Maybe people hear everyone else backwards. So if Major Briggs had gone to collect Cooper from the Lodge, he'd have heard Cooper talking backwards.

[LostInTheMovies]

Maybe people hear everyone else backwards. So if Major Briggs had gone to collect Cooper from the Lodge, he'd have heard Cooper talking backwards.

I thought that too, but the only problem is that Cooper doesn't talk backwards when we are clearly seeing the Red Room from Laura's perspective in FWWM. So for whatever reason, Cooper NEVER talks backwards there and everyone else does (even Laura!).

[Xryztofer]

As per my own theories about the Black Lodge, it traps souls that face it with "imperfect courage" and over time assimilates them as full-time inhabitants (hence why Laura also speaks in that strange way in the Lodge, she's been trapped in there for a fair bit of time).

That brings up another issue. Is that really Laura? After all, TMFAP asks, "Doesn't she look almost exactly like Laura Palmer," but he introduces her as his "cousin." My theory is that she's the mysterious Judy, who I think is Laura's Black/White Lodge counterpart, for these reasons, all coming from FWWM:
1. The monkey whispers "Judy" near the end of the film.
2. We see the monkey only twice: the first time with its face partially behind a mask, and the second time without any mask at all.
3. The mask seems to indicate that someone is possessed by Bob; for example, Mrs. Tremond's grandson is wearing it when he whispers to Laura that the man behind the mask is in her bedroom looking for the diary. The man behind the mask is Bob, behind the mask of Leland, whom he is possessing at that moment.
4. The monkey is partially behind the mask when Bob is gaining more and more control over Laura, but he doesn't yet have full possession of her.
5. When Laura puts on the ring, thus preventing Bob from possessing her (and is then killed by Bob), the monkey is soon seen without the mask.
6. Lastly, when Agent Jeffries asks the hotel proprietor in Brazil about Judy, he's told that the "young lady" left something for him. Laura too is a young lady.

Not conclusive proof, by any means, but I think there are some interesting connections there.

[Ygdrasel]

As per my own theories about the Black Lodge, it traps souls that face it with "imperfect courage" and over time assimilates them as full-time inhabitants (hence why Laura also speaks in that strange way in the Lodge, she's been trapped in there for a fair bit of time).

That brings up another issue. Is that really Laura? After all, TMFAP asks, "Doesn't she look almost exactly like Laura Palmer," but he introduces her as his "cousin." My theory is that she's the mysterious Judy, who I think is Laura's Black/White Lodge counterpart, for these reasons, all coming from FWWM:
1. The monkey whispers "Judy" near the end of the film.
2. We see the monkey only twice: the first time with its face partially behind a mask, and the second time without any mask at all.
3. The mask seems to indicate that someone is possessed by Bob; for example, Mrs. Tremond's grandson is wearing it when he whispers to Laura that the man behind the mask is in her bedroom looking for the diary. The man behind the mask is Bob, behind the mask of Leland, whom he is possessing at that moment.
4. The monkey is partially behind the mask when Bob is gaining more and more control over Laura, but he doesn't yet have full possession of her.
5. When Laura puts on the ring, thus preventing Bob from possessing her (and is then killed by Bob), the monkey is soon seen without the mask.
6. Lastly, when Agent Jeffries asks the hotel proprietor in Brazil about Judy, he's told that the "young lady" left something for him. Laura too is a young lady.

Not conclusive proof, by any means, but I think there are some interesting connections there.

I always just took that to be the Lodge residents' typical cryptic speech patterns. Basically, "I'm talking about Laura now. [then he goes on to riddle about the Lodge and how she was tied up] Also, keep an eye on her cousin later."

I don't think people have actual counterparts inside the Lodges. There are the dopplegangers but those are just tools the Lodge uses to break people like it broke Coop. It is a curious idea though, one many seem to explore. #6 seems pretty silly though. "Laura is a young lady and Judy is too. CONNECTION!"...C'mon now. But it is certainly an intriguing idea otherwise. I do love all the various interpretations of the Twin Peaks universe.


Now, I'd always thought Judy was one of Bob's previous victims, felled in a manner not unlike Laura herself (hence the mask-possession symbolism shared between the two). It certainly doesn't seem like Bob's first case of possession was Laura (or Leland, really - he seems practiced). Depending on Judy's age (never stated) I think either when he was giving Leland a break or sometime between Leland and Laura (if he took Leland in childhood, there'd be a fair wait before Laura was in the picture), he found a nice little vessel in Judy.

Plus the agency initially treats Laura's demise as a serial killer case which is why they send Cooper in the first place. Official classification as a serial killer requires three separate occasions of murder. Judy. Teresa. Laura. That also explains how Jeffries came to be involved with the Lodge. Notice, every case of Bob's victims, a new investigator gets spirited off to the Lodge. Desmond investigated Teresa...To the Lodge. Cooper investigated Laura...Discovered the Lodge. What was Jeffries investigating that brought him there?

And while Jeffries escaped, I think Judy failed. She got left behind. And (albeit perhaps unknown to Jeffries given his escape), she became a resident. Why else would he be so reluctant to speak of her? Must be horrifying to contemplate her fate.

Above the convenience store, one of the Woodsmen mentions something about "animal life" after LMFAP talks about "going up and down...intercourse between the two worlds". I took that as "We use animals to move outside of the Lodge".

Bob always used owls as his eyes in Twin Peaks.
The monkey whispers "Judy" near the end of the film.
Maybe the monkeys aren't what they seem either.

[LostInTheMovies]

Bob always used owls as his eyes in Twin Peaks.
The monkey whispers "Judy" near the end of the film.
Maybe the monkeys aren't what they seem either.

At this point though the question becomes WHY have the monkey whisper Judy? This is not in the script and is something Lynch obviously executed in post-production, and most likely conceived there too. At which point, let's recall, he had extracted all of the sequel set-up/non-Laura elements in the scripted & shot ending. So by this point the film's conclusion is entirely about Laura's death/transcendence. For Lynch to take this moment to reference an absurdly minor & offscreen thread/tangent woul be pointless and out-of-character for him. Therefore I agree that whatever Judy means to Lynch, it has something to do with Laura.

At heart it is a poetic gesture: Jeffries has said "we're not gonna talk about Judy" and at the end of the movie we talk about what we're not supposed to talk about (and at the same time, we don't - because it remains unexplained). In this case, the mystery of Laura's death which we've both seen (in literal terms) without quite understanding (because what actually happened in the train car - the ring, the angel - remains mysterious). Worth noting that "Judy" is the final word in all of Twin Peaks until 2016 (Lynch went back and forth on whether there would be sequels and I suspect that in the final stages of FWWM he was treating it like a goodbye to that world). It also functions as a kind of mantra, leading us into Laura's final epiphany.

That said, in Twin Peaks, the abstract also usually takes on a specific form so along with Judy-as-metaphor there is also probably a potential Judy-as-actual-thing out there in the Twin Peaks universe. Perhaps we'll find out more in 2016, but at this point the actual onscreen clues in FWWM (and even Missing Pieces) are so vague they could make her just about anything. In a weird way, the monkey's reference may be more constricting than anything Jeffries says because it implies a link to the film's climax.

Anyway, John Thorne (of Wrapped in Plastic) has a very good blog post on the Judy/Laura idea: http://abovethestore.blogspot.com/2009/ ... -judy.html

[Ygdrasel]

At this point though the question becomes WHY have the monkey whisper Judy? This is not in the script and is something Lynch obviously executed in post-production, and most likely conceived there too. At which point, let's recall, he had extracted all of the sequel set-up/non-Laura elements in the scripted & shot ending. So by this point the film's conclusion is entirely about Laura's death/transcendence. For Lynch to take this moment to reference an absurdly minor & offscreen thread/tangent would be pointless and out-of-character for him. Therefore I agree that whatever Judy means to Lynch, it has something to do with Laura.

I'm sure it has something to do with Laura. I'm just not sold on the "Laura's Lodge counterpart" thing. But more than that, I think it has a lot to do with Bob as well.
After all, it doesn't cut to Laura when the monkey whispers. It cuts to a corpse, a life snuffed out by Bob.
And I still think the monkey, akin to Bob's owls, is connected as well.

I've actually got a few theories about the Laura/Judy/monkey connection.

1) Judy was a previous victim. Her demise was the first time Bob "stole the corn". This gave him a big head so he went rogue and took Laura. The monkey is Laura from within the Lodge taking note of where all the darkness began.
2) Judy is the would-be victim that will die after Laura. The monkey is her Lodge-imprisoned future self basically acknowledging that she's next.
3) Laura took Judy's place as a victim. The monkey is Pierre just taking note of who the intended was, and that the victim was not her.
4) Judy is a future incarnation of Laura. The monkey is Jeffries watching Laura's demise (via the monkey) and that future (back in the Lodge).


1) In the convenience store scene, Pierre makes an observation that Bob "fell a victim". Bob proceeds to get somewhat angry, rambling on about how he has his "own momentum" - He doesn't need the others. He can work alone. The whisper of "Judy" occurs following Laura's demise then cuts to her corpse. Laura peers through the monkey's eyes, witnessing her own death while her spirit inside the Lodge is witnessing Judy's in another time.

2) "Judy" is followed by a shot of Bob's latest victim, itself followed by Annie in the hospital where a nurse confiscates and dons the owl ring. The nurse is either Judy (Bob's next victim), or a means to reach Judy (much like Leland was a means to reach Laura). As for Jeffries rambling about her prior to this, the non-linearity of Lodge time is shown to leave him confused and muddled as to the date upon his return. And Judy-in-the-lodge used that same non-linearity to witness the events leading up to her own eventual end.

3) In the convenience store scene, Pierre issues a command (more likely just reiterates instructions from Mike - I don't think Pierre himself gets to pull rank on Bob) for Bob to fell a victim. That victim was meant to be Judy. It was all laid out. I think the Lodge is very particular with their own rules like that. But then Bob went rogue and decided he wanted Laura instead, and all for himself. Judy was the target that lived because Laura died instead. Pierre uses the monkey as a spy to insure Bob follows instructions...Bob doesn't, of course, which leads to the Mike/Bob feud seen throughout the series/film. That the feud is seen to exist, via the "You stole the corn!" scene, prior to Laura's death is an anomaly of Lodge time. Mike just opted to nip the whole matter before it ever became a matter in the first place.

4) A line that never made it beyond the script has the LMFAP note "And everything will proceed cyclically". The Glastonbury Lodge entrance is in a ring of trees. The owl cave...Caves are circular. The owl ring...Well, it's a ring. A lot of circle symbolism, in addition to that line, suggests a cyclical nature to the Twin Peaks universe. If events in Twin Peaks do operate on a cycle of some kind, "Judy" could be the "Laura" of the next cycle. Not a counterpart, per se, but an eventual reincarnation - which would mean that Jeffries was either deliberately referencing events to come or he'd become confused due to his temporal disorientation (a state which is true regardless of the interpretation - Jeffries is clearly very out of sorts). In this case, the monkey is likely how Jeffries peeked beyond the Lodge prior to his escape.