Annie in FWWM

[HoodedMatt]

I've been reading the Episode 29 thread over in the episodes board and a post by Lost in the Movies got me a-ponderin' something.

The thread had turned toward the message that Sarah Palmer gives in the diner and whether it was Windom Earle or the Little Man who sent it, and LitM said

One thought about the Little Man conveying a message to Briggs through Sarah. This would be generally consistent with his activities in Fire Walk With Me, where he uses Annie - simultaneously in two different times - to convey the message that the good Cooper is in the Lodge (and thus, Bob is out in the world).

This caused two thoughts to pop to mind. One, I've always assumed that Annie appearing in bed with Laura was not the doing of the Little Man, since I can't see what he would gain from Laura writing "Good Cooper is in the Lodge..." in her diary. And two, that her relaying of the message to the Nurse in the Missing Pieces was some sort of unintentional delayed reaction with Annie's physical self catching up with her spiritual self due to Lodge temporal shenanigans.

Lost in the Movies goes on to say

At least I'm pretty sure it's the Little Man, since both times the green ring accompanies the message and almost seems to symbolize the passage of this information about Bob's whereabouts (just as it does when the one-armed man flashes the ring in traffic and says "it's your father!" or when we first see the ring on Teresa's finger after she sees Leland's discomfort).

Thinking about it now after reading the above quotes, I think the strongest reason for the Little Man being responsible for Annie appearing beside Laura is the fact of the ring appearing in Laura's hand as Annie vanishes. He was offering Laura the ring moments before from the Lodge, so he had to get it to her somehow. But then the ring vanishes and presumably goes back to Phillip Gerard, assuming that the ring ever physically left him. Perhaps it was all just a heads up so that she would know what to do (or be tempted to do it) when the time came?

Regarding Annie conveying the message a second time in the hospital and the theft of the ring by the Nurse, I'm not sure why but I don't really like the idea of the Little Man (or any of the other Convienience Store gang) having a hand in that. I prefer that to be an accident and the Nurse setting herself up for a fall due to her own greed, rather than a Lodge conspiracy to keep the ring out there.
The period in time from just before Laura's death (if not long before when Leland first abused her) until at least the events of the last episode of the series and parts of the Missing Pieces and FWWM are so turbulent and complicated for both the physical and spiritual worlds that I like the idea that even the Lodge lot are straining to keep a hold of things and that the ring gets loose due to their in fighting and Coop and Windom Earle.

Thoughts?

[LostInTheMovies]

This caused two thoughts to pop to mind. One, I've always assumed that Annie appearing in bed with Laura was not the doing of the Little Man, since I can't see what he would gain from Laura writing "Good Cooper is in the Lodge..." in her diary.

The Little Man/Mike/Phillip Gerard (whether they are the same entity or aspects of the same entity or whatnot) are positioned as opponents of Bob in both FWWM and the series. It's pretty much the only consistent trait we can apply to them since their depictions often vary so wildly!

If "the Good Cooper is in the Lodge and he can't leave" is written in the diary, then if/when someone discovers it later the implication will be that the Cooper running about in the real world is NOT the good Cooper. Considering how concerned the Little Man/Mike is with exposing Bob both in the show and (maybe especially) the film, I don't think it's a leap to say that he would want this information out there.

Of course this would be much easier to parse if he said "Bob is in Cooper - write it in your diary" but a) the Little Man (like Lynch) tends to phrase everything like a puzzle/enigma, b) we know Lynch wasn't in love with that idea to begin with, so it makes sense he'd avoid phrasing it in those terms. Besides, we saw Bob in the mirror in the finale, so that's already known to the audience at least. Annie's message allows her to get the same point across to Laura while also giving the audience new information.

But then the ring vanishes and presumably goes back to Phillip Gerard, assuming that the ring ever physically left him. Perhaps it was all just a heads up so that she would know what to do (or be tempted to do it) when the time came?

I think the ring is almost always - maybe just always, period - a metaphysical more than a physical presence: a painter's visual symbol for the transmission of information/understanding. But yes, Lynch does like to keep a foot in both worlds so on that note I guess I would point out that Laura is dreaming here so the ring needn't leave Mike's finger for her to receive it in this situation.

Regarding Annie conveying the message a second time in the hospital and the theft of the ring by the Nurse, I'm not sure why but I don't really like the idea of the Little Man (or any of the other Convienience Store gang) having a hand in that. I prefer that to be an accident and the Nurse setting herself up for a fall due to her own greed, rather than a Lodge conspiracy to keep the ring out there.

I feel the opposite! I really don't like the idea of the nurse just being a random detour in the ring's path. Reading the script, it seems like that's what was intended but Lynch usually finds a way to tie the randomness back into something bigger. I think it's certainly fair to say that she was not the intended recipient of Annie's message and/or the ring (I think the two go together) but I'd like to think that once she hears/receives it, there's now something interesting she can do with it other than just withholding it.

Considering Annie probably will not remember much if/when she awakens from her coma, the nurse could serve as a bearer of this knowledge, sort of living, breathing complement to the passage in Laura's diary (presumably the day-planner one since the secret one was already at Harold's). Considering Lynch went out of his way to bring back giggling Heidi for the finale & FWWM, I don't think it's a stretch to think he'll seek out that actress in 2016. It would be a cool twist and fulfillment of what could easily seem one of the more dead-end/off-track moments in the Missing Pieces.

Also although Engels and (I think) Strobel read the ring as something bad - and obviously Cooper has his infamous warning - in the film it is consistently presented as serving a positive function. So the nurse taking it and setting herself up for some kind of fall wouldn't make sense for me: why does the ring which accompanies Annie's message, frees Laura from Bob, and gives Teresa power over Leland suddenly doom the nurse? Yes, it's linked to pain and sorrow and yes its bearer becomes a threat to Bob (and thus a possible victim of his violence), but usually at the service of some larger positive function.

[HoodedMatt]

The Little Man/Mike/Phillip Gerard (whether they are the same entity or aspects of the same entity or whatnot) are positioned as opponents of Bob in both FWWM and the series. It's pretty much the only consistent trait we can apply to them since their depictions often vary so wildly!

Agreed. It wasn't my intention to suggest otherwise, just for the record.

If "the Good Cooper is in the Lodge and he can't leave" is written in the diary, then if/when someone discovers it later the implication will be that the Cooper running about in the real world is NOT the good Cooper. Considering how concerned the Little Man/Mike is with exposing Bob both in the show and (maybe especially) the film, I don't think it's a leap to say that he would want this information out there.

Of course this would be much easier to parse if he said "Bob is in Cooper - write it in your diary" but a) the Little Man (like Lynch) tends to phrase everything like a puzzle/enigma, b) we know Lynch wasn't in love with that idea to begin with, so it makes sense he'd avoid phrasing it in those terms. Besides, we saw Bob in the mirror in the finale, so that's already known to the audience at least. Annie's message allows her to get the same point across to Laura while also giving the audience new information.

Taking into account the fact that FWWM was made post-series and there was no way for the information to be there in reality, I think we have to assume that Laura did not write any such message down in her day-planner diary. I think Lynch meant for that to be obvious as Laura was too caught up in her ordeal and what that dream meant to and for her to actually pay any attention to some woman she didn't know telling her about some person called Cooper who she also doesn't know. If, at the time, he wanted the message to make it to the diary, I think we would have seen her write it, at least in the Missing Pieces.

Regarding the second paragraph there, though, I agree again. It does fit both Lynch's and the Little Man's mutual MO to intentionally muddy the waters some, so it is possible that it's the Little Man's doing.

I think the ring is almost always - maybe just always, period - a metaphysical more than a physical presence: a painter's visual symbol for the transmission of information/understanding. But yes, Lynch does like to keep a foot in both worlds so on that note I guess I would point out that Laura is dreaming here so the ring needn't leave Mike's finger for her to receive it in this situation.

Even when Gerard-as-Mike has it? Interesting. I'd not considered that much and it does make sense, since it isn't in Gerard's personal effects in the series (real world considerations aside). And yeah, I think the fact that Laura is wide awake and sat up in bed when the ring does it's "now you see it...now you don't" thing kinda made me forget that she was still dreaming. Thanks for the reminder.

I feel the opposite! I really don't like the idea of the nurse just being a random detour in the ring's path. Reading the script, it seems like that's what was intended but Lynch usually finds a way to tie the randomness back into something bigger. I think it's certainly fair to say that she was not the intended recipient of Annie's message and/or the ring (I think the two go together) but I'd like to think that once she hears/receives it, there's now something interesting she can do with it other than just withholding it.

Considering Annie probably will not remember much if/when she awakens from her coma, the nurse could serve as a bearer of this knowledge, sort of living, breathing complement to the passage in Laura's diary (presumably the day-planner one since the secret one was already at Harold's). Considering Lynch went out of his way to bring back giggling Heidi for the finale & FWWM, I don't think it's a stretch to think he'll seek out that actress in 2016. It would be a cool twist and fulfillment of what could easily seem one of the more dead-end/off-track moments in the Missing Pieces.

I like the idea of the metaphysical lot having limits and being just as vulnerable as the physical lot, but in possibly different ways. One of those ways possibly being that once they manifest something on this side, it can be used against them or diverted from its intended course for a while. Which the Nurse, assuming this idea is so, would be doing. But in diverting the ring from where the Little Man intended it to be, the Nurse opens herself up to eventual attack or use by the Little Man. That is what I meant by "a fall" as she just wants the pretty ring, but becomes a pawn in the game rather than "taking the ring means death for everyone who takes it". If the Nurse and the ring's meeting was orchestrated by the Little Man, then it makes him too powerful in my view. But...

Tying this back into what I said earlier about my belief that Lynch did not intend Laura to write anything down, then perhaps your assertion here that the Nurse becomes the message bearer is spot on. This could still be partially random - the Nurse could have been a janitor doing routine cleaning rounds or a doctor checking on Annie - but the Little Man sent the message again (or twice in the first place) to doubley make sure that the message gets out there somehow.

Hmm...it seems I'm more convinced now about it being the Little Man than I was earlier! It does make sense that he would try to hinder Bob's playing away and that he'd be oblique with his messages. I'm still unsure whether I like the idea or not, but then I don't have to like it, merely accept it as most likely.

Also although Engels and (I think) Strobel read the ring as something bad - and obviously Cooper has his infamous warning - in the film it is consistently presented as serving a positive function. So the nurse taking it and setting herself up for some kind of fall wouldn't make sense for me: why does the ring which accompanies Annie's message, frees Laura from Bob, and gives Teresa power over Leland suddenly doom the nurse? Yes, it's linked to pain and sorrow and yes its bearer becomes a threat to Bob (and thus a possible victim of his violence), but usually at the service of some larger positive function.

Yeah, I take Cooper's warning to be misguided. He's assuming that the ring is evil because of the entity offering it, not because of anything else. I think it may possibly be the only neutral thing about the metaphysical realm, in so far as it allows secondary positive things to happen while causing or influencing a primary negative event. Laura was saved from becoming Bob's next host, but she had to die in order to be saved. Like I said before, the Nurse's "fall" need not be her death, but rather her becoming the Little Man's pawn. That may well end with her death, but not necessarily, as surely being used by hither-to unknown spiritual forces is pretty horrific enough? Even if she is giving Truman/Gordon Cole/The Log Lady/whoever the message about Good Coop and allowing them to begin planning his rescue and Bob's next scuppering? I can't see anyone who survives being used by the Black Lodge or its denizens being free from mental and/or spiritual trauma afterwards, which is surely a kind of "doom". Doomed to live the rest of ones days as damaged as Major Briggs was enlightened by the White Lodge.

Thanks for this, by the way. I hope I'm making sense!

[LostInTheMovies]

Taking into account the fact that FWWM was made post-series and there was no way for the information to be there in reality, I think we have to assume that Laura did not write any such message down in her day-planner diary. I think Lynch meant for that to be obvious as Laura was too caught up in her ordeal and what that dream meant to and for her to actually pay any attention to some woman she didn't know telling her about some person called Cooper who she also doesn't know. If, at the time, he wanted the message to make it to the diary, I think we would have seen her write it, at least in the Missing Pieces.

I would be on board with this especially since the secret diary, which is what Annie seems to mean, is at Harold's and we never see Laura return there. EXCEPT that Lynch has this to say in Lynch on Lynch (emphasis added):

"Although I don't really like talking about things, I've got to say this one thing about that scene - where Annie suddenly appears in Laura's bed. This is before Laura has been murdered, and before Coop has come to Twin Peaks. Annie appears, filled with blood, and wearing the exact same dress that she's wearing when she was in The Red Room with Cooper in the series - in the future. She says to Laura, 'The good Dale is in the Lodge. Write it in your diary.' And I know that Laura wrote that down, in a little side space in her diary.

Now if Twin Peaks, the series, had continued, someone may've found that. It's like somebody in 1920 saying, 'Lee Harvey Oswald', or something, and then later you sort of see it all. I had hopes of something coming out of that, and I liked the idea of the story going back and forth in time."

There's also a diary inconsistency on the series when Donna/Cooper receive pages from the day before Laura died - even though the film says she's already left her diary with Harold at that point. So maybe she went back and wrote down a few more things? It will be interesting to see them address this in 2016. I think they will (the "good Dale" part, not the ep. 16/FWWM discrepancy although that may be resolved by default).

[Re: ring being metaphysical as much/more than physical] Even when Gerard-as-Mike has it? Interesting. I'd not considered that much and it does make sense, since it isn't in Gerard's personal effects in the series (real world considerations aside).

I think it's one of those things Lynch would want to keep ambiguous as much as possible, which would explain why - rather than explicitly show it not being on Teresa's finger before she knows about Leland, he just hides her hand from view so that it COULD be there (in fact, it is - but we can only see this with a freeze-frame and probably has more to do with the continuity of the shooting than with Lynch actually wanting it to be there then). And in her death scene it isn't there (he makes sure she holds her left hand up to prove this) but it happens so fast we have to be really looking for it to realize this.

And I think the whole Mike-in-traffic scene in general plays a bit that way. You have this strange man coming out of nowhere, ripping through the crosswalk and accosting Leland and yet Leland seems to be the only one concerned by, or even particularly noticing, this. Everyone else is like, woah man are you ok? Give your engine a break! Instead of saying, wow that was crazy, that guy came out of nowhere! (The old folks walking through the crosswalk don't even seem to flinch as Mike swerves past them.)

Lynch inserts a few lines to make sure we know Mike was not just Leland's hallucination (Laura says "Who was he? Did I know him!") but he makes sure to emphasize the psychological, Leland-focused aspect of the scene so that it's clear whatever happened has more to do with Leland's anxiety than some random guy coming out of nowhere and attacking him. Even Laura is more concerned with talking about the burning smell and seems way more freaked out by Leland than by Mike.

I think with all the spiritual stuff in the movie - other than the angels - Lynch usually seeks to emphasize the psychological significance while simultaneously to grounding the events in physical reality (he doesn't have the Tremonds vanish into thin air but rather be quickly across the street, the ring is also at least implicitly carried/worn by someone, Jeffries doesn't materialize out of thin air but comes out of an elevator and then disappears when Cole isn't looking - an effect admittedly ruined in the Missing Pieces when he "zaps" back to Buenos Aires! I love that scene for the bellboy's hilarious comment but otherwise I find myself wishing it wasn't canon!). All just enough so that we can't say "It's all a dream or a hallucination" or, on the other hand, "they are magical spirits materializing from the ether."

Man, these threads always seem to go off-topic! Or at least I always push them off-topic lol...

I think it may possibly be the only neutral thing about the metaphysical realm, in so far as it allows secondary positive things to happen while causing or influencing a primary negative event.

I kind of agree, but I'd probably phrase it the other way around. The ring's primary cause is to facilitate or at least accompany a positive event (Teresa learning about Leland, Laura learning about her father, Laura receiving the message about the good Dale and learning she can cross boundaries between two worlds, Laura saving Ronette - at least in my eyes - and thus proving she is stronger than Bob, as for Chet maybe it's the discovery of the Chalfont trailer which is, according to production documents, the crime scene?!) and the negative aspect is secondary and due to the fact that Bob cannot control the victim, therefore he feels compelled to kill them.

Thanks for this, by the way. I hope I'm making sense!

About as much sense as anyone can, discussing little men who are the severed appendages of one-armed men who wave magical rings from their van while shouting about stealing corn...

[james]

"Considering Lynch went out of his way to bring back giggling Heidi for the finale & FWWM, I don't think it's a stretch to think he'll seek out that actress in 2016. It would be a cool twist and fulfilment of what could easily seem one of the more dead-end/off-track moments in the Missing Pieces."

I agree, that would be pretty great. I even recall some guy commenting that the nurse was 'a babe', so there's that too!

All the same, its not what I'd call a deal clincher - the nurse has been seen by the fans who are so obsessive about the show (like us) that we sought out the blu-ray release. Of course, some fans would not be described as so obsessive and bought it because they love the show.

So whilst the nurse's appearance is canon, she's a footnote. I am unsure how much Lynch and Frost will use the deleted scenes as inspiration for the new series, but I'd guess not very much. Even if we do get mention of the nurse again or see her, could it be for a couple of minutes? Will the ring feature prominently again or was that specific to FWWM?

[LostInTheMovies]

So whilst the nurse's appearance is canon, she's a footnote. I am unsure how much Lynch and Frost will use the deleted scenes as inspiration for the new series, but I'd guess not very much. Even if we do get mention of the nurse again or see her, could it be for a couple of minutes? Will the ring feature prominently again or was that specific to FWWM?

The real question is, will we see "I shit my pants!" man again...

[HoodedMatt]

I would be on board with this especially since the secret diary, which is what Annie seems to mean, is at Harold's and we never see Laura return there. EXCEPT that Lynch has this to say in Lynch on Lynch (emphasis added):

"Although I don't really like talking about things, I've got to say this one thing about that scene - where Annie suddenly appears in Laura's bed. This is before Laura has been murdered, and before Coop has come to Twin Peaks. Annie appears, filled with blood, and wearing the exact same dress that she's wearing when she was in The Red Room with Cooper in the series - in the future. She says to Laura, 'The good Dale is in the Lodge. Write it in your diary.' And I know that Laura wrote that down, in a little side space in her diary.

Now if Twin Peaks, the series, had continued, someone may've found that. It's like somebody in 1920 saying, 'Lee Harvey Oswald', or something, and then later you sort of see it all. I had hopes of something coming out of that, and I liked the idea of the story going back and forth in time."

There's also a diary inconsistency on the series when Donna/Cooper receive pages from the day before Laura died - even though the film says she's already left her diary with Harold at that point. So maybe she went back and wrote down a few more things? It will be interesting to see them address this in 2016. I think they will (the "good Dale" part, not the ep. 16/FWWM discrepancy although that may be resolved by default).

Ahhh right. I've not had a chance to get hold of Lynch on Lynch yet, so that's new info for me. Thanks for that! Lynch is gonna have to play it carefully in order to maintain believability. I for one will find in nigh on impossible to accept that Cooper would have seen it and totally ignored it, especially once they started talking about the Lodges. It'll be difficult enough to believe that they missed it altogether, assuming it is in one of the diaries. I'm kinda hoping that she wrote it elsewhere in a hurry, like on a school book or something, just so that Cooper & co. missing the message doesn't make them seem incompetent.

I think it's one of those things Lynch would want to keep ambiguous as much as possible, which would explain why - rather than explicitly show it not being on Teresa's finger before she knows about Leland, he just hides her hand from view so that it COULD be there (in fact, it is - but we can only see this with a freeze-frame and probably has more to do with the continuity of the shooting than with Lynch actually wanting it to be there then). And in her death scene it isn't there (he makes sure she holds her left hand up to prove this) but it happens so fast we have to be really looking for it to realize this.

And I think the whole Mike-in-traffic scene in general plays a bit that way. You have this strange man coming out of nowhere, ripping through the crosswalk and accosting Leland and yet Leland seems to be the only one concerned by, or even particularly noticing, this. Everyone else is like, woah man are you ok? Give your engine a break! Instead of saying, wow that was crazy, that guy came out of nowhere! (The old folks walking through the crosswalk don't even seem to flinch as Mike swerves past them.)

Lynch inserts a few lines to make sure we know Mike was not just Leland's hallucination (Laura says "Who was he? Did I know him!") but he makes sure to emphasize the psychological, Leland-focused aspect of the scene so that it's clear whatever happened has more to do with Leland's anxiety than some random guy coming out of nowhere and attacking him. Even Laura is more concerned with talking about the burning smell and seems way more freaked out by Leland than by Mike.

I think with all the spiritual stuff in the movie - other than the angels - Lynch usually seeks to emphasize the psychological significance while simultaneously to grounding the events in physical reality (he doesn't have the Tremonds vanish into thin air but rather be quickly across the street, the ring is also at least implicitly carried/worn by someone, Jeffries doesn't materialize out of thin air but comes out of an elevator and then disappears when Cole isn't looking - an effect admittedly ruined in the Missing Pieces when he "zaps" back to Buenos Aires! I love that scene for the bellboy's hilarious comment but otherwise I find myself wishing it wasn't canon!). All just enough so that we can't say "It's all a dream or a hallucination" or, on the other hand, "they are magical spirits materializing from the ether."

Man, these threads always seem to go off-topic! Or at least I always push them off-topic lol...

I've not really got anything to add to that, other than to nod in agreement and suggest that where the metaphysical is concerned, there's no such thing as off-topic in Twin Peaks!

I kind of agree, but I'd probably phrase it the other way around. The ring's primary cause is to facilitate or at least accompany a positive event (Teresa learning about Leland, Laura learning about her father, Laura receiving the message about the good Dale and learning she can cross boundaries between two worlds, Laura saving Ronette - at least in my eyes - and thus proving she is stronger than Bob, as for Chet maybe it's the discovery of the Chalfont trailer which is, according to production documents, the crime scene?!) and the negative aspect is secondary and due to the fact that Bob cannot control the victim, therefore he feels compelled to kill them.

I'm gonna have to give this some more thought as I'm currently not sure if it matters all that much. In fact, I'm not even sure now that using the binary terminology is helpful at all, and that perhaps the negative event is simply the price for the positive/knowledge.

About as much sense as anyone can, discussing little men who are the severed appendages of one-armed men who wave magical rings from their van while shouting about stealing corn...

When you put it like that...

[Jasper]

I’ve gone gif happy and I’m going to heavily illustrate this post with gifs. You’ve been warned.

I always felt that it was Annie (and maybe Cooper as well) delivering the message, and I imagined that Laura probably wrote it down, and that this written message would likely have been found and would have played a part in a followup film. Even in the absence of a followup, it could provide us with a sliver of hope. I’m happy to know that Lynch mentioned it. If the note wasn’t going to play a part, presumably in the attempt to rescue Coop, then why include it in the film? I think it would be very easy to come up with a reason why this piece of writing was yet to be discovered in the series.

I understand Joel’s point that it could benefit the LMFAP/MIKE, but I'm still not convinced that it's necessarily from him, though perhaps we could find a middle ground where the message is from Annie (and perhaps Cooper as well) and is facilitated by the LMFAP because it’s in his interest to get BOB under control. Still, Annie finding a way to send this message, even in her daze, imbues her with an agency that she otherwise lacks from the point that she’s kidnapped by Earle and hypnotized in Glastonbury Grove…



through her time in the lodge….



not to mention the film and The Missing Pieces…





What’s interesting is that I felt Annie sent the message from the lodge in the film, and that in her daze she was desperately repeating it like an S.O.S. beacon, which explained her repeating it in the hospital scene in the script. Now, having watched the scene, I wonder if she was actually sending it at that very moment from the hospital, perhaps facilitated by the ring and its connection to the non-linear time properties of the lodge (or at least of the inter-dimensional entities therein). She's even wearing the lodge dress (Caroline's dress) when she arrives at the hospital as well, so perhaps here the ring is messing with time/space even outside of the lodge.

I can’t dismiss Joel’s point about the ring (sort of) being there BOTH times, though I think in Laura’s bed (where Laura already thinks she’s awake) Annie visits on one dream level, from which Laura wakes up (or thinks she does) with the ring, freaks out, then wakes up again. Is it then THREE times she wakes up???

Laura could sure use a good wake-me-up.


(That green mug . . . coincidence?)

I think it’s extremely important that Laura reacts with unusual calm to the presence of a bloody stranger babbling nonsense in her bed, yet is absolutely terrified by the ring.

[LostInTheMovies]

(That green mug . . . coincidence?)

Ah man, I love stuff like this! I've never tried to watch a Lynch film high, but I imagine if I did my synapses would just melt as a result of weird little are-they-or-aren't-they things like this...

I think it’s extremely important that Laura reacts with unusual calm to the presence of a bloody stranger babbling nonsense in her bed, yet is absolutely terrified by the ring.

Probably so - either way, I always felt it was such a great touch. True somehow, too.

Re: the message coming from the Little Man, I'm not particularly "married" to this idea (no pun intended) but as you say, Annie tends to be pretty passive from the finale onward. Somehow the Little Man being the messenger tends to work with the streamlining that Lynch does in finale/FWWM whereas Annie brings in a new complication.

That's one reason I have trouble envisioning her as an important active presence in the whole crazy spirit world drama of ep. 29 & FWWM. But in a way it would be nice for Lynch to allow her that agency, especially since I kind of like her character's spunk in the earlier episodes.

Heather Graham has been completely mum about 2016, hasn't she?

[StealThisCorn]

What I want to know is why Annie was wearing Caroline's dress from the Red Room when she's in emergency care at the hospital in the Missing Pieces, instead of the black Miss Twin Peaks she wore entering Glastonbury Grove in Episode 29.

[Mibbler]

What’s interesting is that I felt Annie sent the message from the lodge in the film, and that in her daze she was desperately repeating it like an S.O.S. beacon, which explained her repeating it in the hospital scene in the script. Now, having watched the scene, I wonder if she was actually sending it at that very moment from the hospital, perhaps facilitated by the ring and its connection to the non-linear time properties of the lodge (or at least of the inter-dimensional entities therein). She's even wearing the lodge dress (Caroline's dress) when she arrives at the hospital as well, so perhaps here the ring is messing with time/space even outside of the lodge.

I like to think that the "exact" moment Annie is sending the message to Laura is when Cooper sees her at the moment he is facing Windom, because it seems to be the same room we see in FWWM, as it has the same table where the ring is offered for the first time to Laura in dreams.

Deep down, this concrete room seems to have significant importance, as it´s the place where the most important events of the lodge take place (ring´s offering, Cooper being stabbed, Windom being defeated, BOB´s appeareance, Cooper´s doppelganger´s appearance...)

[LostInTheMovies]

I'm having some new thoughts about Annie, and also the Lodge.

In another thread, I mentioned that the Lodge mythology seems to have been conceived very ad-hoc, and "solidified" (to the extent it ever is) only at the very end of the saga. With how central the Lodge terminology is to our conversations about Twin Peaks, it's easy to forget that it never emerged until after Laura's mystery ended, remained vague and undefined for almost all of the series, was linked to most of the early iconography due only to Lynch's eleventh-hour quasi-retcon, and then functionally abandoned in the film.

There are obviously many out-of-world explanations for the erratic nature of the Black/White Lodge mythology. But in-world, I like to think that the "Black vs. White Lodge" is only a very, very loose human conception placed on a much-more-difficult-to-define spiritual reality. The only characters who ever speak of "the Lodge" are people like Hawk, Maj. Briggs, Cooper, Windom Earle, etc - seekers who are relying on ancient legends and some limited research (and in Briggs' case, very dim memories) to define this other realm. In a sense, then, there really isn't any Black or White Lodge and as definitions of "another place" they are somewhat helpful, but also misleading. (I don't mean this just in the obvious linguistic sense but in a more fundamental, metaphysical sense...if that's a useful distinction.)

But...if my theory about the Little Man sending Annie to deliver the message is true, then this would be the first time a spirit uses that word. Granted, we could rationalize it by saying he's using the human conception to communicate with them but still, I don't totally like it - so now I'm leaning toward abandoning the Little Man idea! Even if it isn't him, though, how does Annie know to refer to this place as "the Lodge"? Does Windom use the phrase when dragging her into Glastonbury Grove in the finale? I can't remember.

[HoodedMatt]

I guess, it's possible that the Little Man could convey the idea of the message to Annie in a way that does not involve words and her subconscious interprets them as "good Cooper is in the Lodge...", drawing on the Collective Unconscious. She is in a catatonic state, so she possibly or probably isn't aware of it anyway. That way the Little Man conveys the feeling of "this place" and Annie experiences it as "the Lodge" because that's what Cooper and Earle call it (and they are right there with her in the finale, so are the closest human connections to the CU)?

[LostInTheMovies]

Annie experiences it as "the Lodge" because that's what Cooper and Earle call it (and they are right there with her in the finale, so are the closest human connections to the CU)?

Good point...we're already deep in the psychic realm; why would someone actually need to *say* "Lodge" for her to pick up on the idea?

[Jasper]

Don't forget we're watching Cooper's lodge journey. Annie could have experienced a lot more which we wouldn't have seen, including (in a retroactive narrative from FWWM) receiving the ring. Annie's actually in there for a good while before Cooper even arrives (as much as that matters w/ the nonlinear weirdness of the lodge). In FWWM and The Missing Pieces Annie mentions that she's been with Laura and Dale, though I don't think we see Annie and Laura at the same time in ep. 29.

I like to think that the "exact" moment Annie is sending the message to Laura is when Cooper sees her at the moment he is facing Windom, because it seems to be the same room we see in FWWM, as it has the same table where the ring is offered for the first time to Laura in dreams.

Deep down, this concrete room seems to have significant importance, as it´s the place where the most important events of the lodge take place (ring´s offering, Cooper being stabbed, Windom being defeated, BOB´s appeareance, Cooper´s doppelganger´s appearance...)

Good point about the table being there in ep. 29. I don't know if it can be called a concrete room, because I'm not sure there is such a thing in the lodge. Dale Cooper only ever goes back and forth between two entrances, and each time he finds something different. Sometimes it looks like "the waiting room", but he's coming in from a different angle (like the back corner) or there's some difference, like there are evil doppelgangers present. When Laura's evil doppelganger appears, the room is initially empty of all furniture and beings/specters. It seems you never really get the same room twice, and part of what you see is what you take in with you (at least sometimes). I guess it's true that in FWWM the ring room with the table is largely the same both times, except for the presence/absence of the ring, and this point is even driven home by some identical dialogue from the LMFAP.

Anyways, I still feel that the most compelling theory is that Annie sends the message to Laura from her hospital bed, aided by the presence of the ring and/or her hypnotic state (and again, I think her wearing Caroline's dress supports the idea that the ring is exerting a lodge-like influence directly around her).

To be fair, we're talking about a retcon, so we're not going to see Annie get the ring or send the message in ep. 29, but I guess we can try to understand Lynch's logic when making the lodge and ring elements of FWWM fit with ep. 29.