celebrating season 2

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sloclub
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celebrating season 2

Postby sloclub » Tue May 01, 2007 12:23 am

I have a different take on Season 2. I remember watching TP when it was first shown on TV loo these many years in the past. Yes, I saw the show in the original Greek. Linear A I think but I digress.

I remember thinking for years that Season 1 was the best and that Season 2 lost it after Leland was revealed as the murderer. For years I too followed the commonly accepted line. I blamed everyone and all kinds of things for the demise of TP.

But now as I rewatched Season 1 then slid into Season 2 it is as though I am watching TP for the first time. I am falling in love with the show, the characters, the actors (when you consider that Ray Wise looks like a Steve Dikko character from early Spider Man comics, that's just weird), the story, the cinamatic quality, all of it, all over again. And you know what? When we said Season 2 was bad, and wrong, and lost the plot, and awful, and ruined the show, and there never needed to be another ep or more story- we were full of sh*t. What in the hell were we thinking? What are we thinking now? Looking for boom mikes where there aren't any, whining over plot holes or inconsistancy or ... or... you name it. This is the finest show ever to grace TV anywhere in the world and we act like we're insulted because the writers tried to use every actor to continue telling stories (i.e. the James and Evelyn story line). Do you realize how many good shows fail at that? I'll name one, Buffy the Vampire Slayer. An excellent series, and would be my top if not for TP, but even the mighty Joss Whedon failed to use Zander and Willow to their full strength over the run of the series. And don't get me started on Veronic Mars where a whole cast was sidelined by a lack of creative fire. That's a "coulda been a brillant show" with real problems. I hurt for VM. TP is way ahead of it and frankly everything else on TV today- warts and all. Don't believe me? Go watch a truly bad TV show like Las Vegas, or Smallville (size matters) or any of the Law and CSI pieces of crap floating around on your screen then come back and tell me again how awful TP is. You can't if you're honest.

Take one of the weakness stories in Season 2; James and Evelyn. People say they just hate it. I submit the problem isn't that James had a story after he left town, it is that the writers could have done much more with it, at least they tried to use him.

And the show went downhill after Leland died? The Windom Earle story line was scary and compelling and just as good as who killed LP. And we could have had more stories like these and better. Who killed TP is the question and the answer my friends is us, the fans. And we not only killed it when it first ran, we kill it now. For all the niggling little mole hills we grow into mountains let's kindly remember that TP was cutting edge and the creative team were going out where no one had gone before on TV- they didn't have a road map. Let's remember too how hard it is to put a quality TV show on. Very, if you don't know. Very hard. Go ask Rob Thomas (VM) or Joss Whedon (BtVS, Angel, Firefly). Go ask David Milch. I did. They will tell you, It's hard as heck.

I am asking the fan base to start celebrating the show because if we don't do it no one else will. I love the innovation of TP. Remember it came out at a time when what we had on TV were tepid shows like Dallas, Miami Vice and Murder She Wrote. Even now what passes for entertainment is so limp and insipid that if I watch it my head will explode. Here's a transcript of a conversion I had with a friend.
Me: what's your favorite show?
Friend: CSI
Me: CSI! F*ck that sh*t! Twin Peaks!

Celebrate Twin Peaks! Praise Season 2! Ask for more. No one has presented a compelling argument that we can't ask for more.
Through the darkness of futures past,
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Audrey Horne
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Postby Audrey Horne » Tue May 01, 2007 7:36 am

I don't agree at all -most of the time, I have to turn it off or it gets me really upset. And actually, I end it when Maddy's body is found not when Leland dies the following episode.

The duality/shadow/flipside is what was fascinating to me -that we are all capable of possessing a light/dark side.

I still don't understand what interesting about Windom Earle at all. He was a comic book character -running around bugging offices, and making giant papier mache chess pieces, and dressing up as the log lady. The plot never explored real human nature, and was the easiest route to linear hero/villain narrative which Twin Peaks initially had no interest in.

While we're on it -I actually don't like BOB being the extreme evil -or the cause and full on reason for events to happen. It was too easy -and didn't want to take on the real horrors of the situations -that we are capable of doing such attrocities. I love the visial element of BOB -but more to incorporate that we all have that in us. Benjamin Horne's need to control, lusting and bedding a seventeen year old is more dangerous and horrifying, and Leland's possible jealousy/inner yearnings as well -instead to just say, "Oh no -evil did these things and hear it is."

I think the second season is fine up to a point -and it's still filled with wonderful actors and moments -but if we were to analyze what works and why it works as a whole, then I have a lot of misgivings about it. I think the first eight episodes of the second season are quite smooth (I think the Leland/jail/BOB episode is actual so anti-Twin Peaks and self indulgent.)

I think the pacing of episode six in the second season is a perfect example of how a regular non-heightened event episode should run.
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Audrey Horne
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Postby Audrey Horne » Tue May 01, 2007 7:37 am

sorry, that was a rant -I still love Twin Peaks more than any other show.
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Red Room
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Re: celebrating season 2

Postby Red Room » Tue May 01, 2007 7:47 am

sloclub wrote:But now as I rewatched Season 1 then slid into Season 2 it is as though I am watching TP for the first time. I am falling in love with the show, the characters, the actors (when you consider that Ray Wise looks like a Steve Dikko character from early Spider Man comics, that's just weird), the story, the cinamatic quality, all of it, all over again. And you know what? When we said Season 2 was bad, and wrong, and lost the plot, and awful, and ruined the show, and there never needed to be another ep or more story- we were full of sh*t...

LOL! :lol: Broadly speaking, I agree with you Slocub. In fact, I originally missed much of Season 2 when it first aired, and have therefore been watching many of these storylines for the first time. In doing so I'm so glad that I opted not to read the majority of S2 threads beforehand, as I fear it would have tarnished the experience a little...

I don't think that Twin Peaks (or David Lynch) is above criticism - on the contrary, there are clearly peaks and troughs throughout the series, but I do feel that on balance it gets far more right than it does wrong. I also prefer Season 2 over the first series, although I agree with many that it initially peaks with the big reveal - although the quality (to me) rises substantially as we head towards the finale...

Incidentally I also feel that the DVD quality is for the most part very good, despite many complaints about video compression. That said, I accept that the shortcomings will most likely be more visible on certain screen formats. Mind you, I have a very good player, and a pretty good TV... Now the packaging (of my R1 set) is a different matter - woefully inadequate, but ultimately not that important in the grand scheme of things I guess. I'm just thrilled to finally have the whole story, only wish there was more...
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Red Room
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Postby Red Room » Tue May 01, 2007 7:54 am

Audrey Horne wrote:I think the first eight episodes of the second season are quite smooth (I think the Leland/jail/BOB episode is actual so anti-Twin Peaks and self indulgent.)

And what's wrong with a bit of self-indulgence?! ;-)

I personally love this episode, and find it to be one of Season 2's (many) highlights. I'm not quite sure how you figure it to be "anti-Twin Peaks"? But if we all saw the world through the same eyes it would be a pretty dull place... :)
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Audrey Horne
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Postby Audrey Horne » Tue May 01, 2007 9:22 am

No kidding -I mean, how self indulgent are my posts? LOL

You know, I don't really know what I mean. For me, the episode seems very definitive, you know. Cooper and others seem to grasp that it was a spirit inhabiting Leland. The clues from the dream are kind of wrapped up in a scooby doo like random murder mystery assembled meeting at the Road House. It could also be because at the time sixteen years ago, I was like, "wait -where the hell is Audrey?!"

At the time, I was just on the ride (obsessed with the show) and waiting for each new episode. Now I can look at it more objectively, this doesn't work, and that doesn't work.

To me, the world of the pilot is completely different than the world of Nadine sitting in bed with Ed and Norma and the sound effect of the twist of the top of her trophy. Twin Peaks (again to me) isn't about quirky -it's about the exploration of real human nature and scratching the surface.
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Audrey Horne
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Postby Audrey Horne » Tue May 01, 2007 7:03 pm

yeah, I just sat through the entire episode of Miss Twin Peaks (2021) for the first time in fifteen years. It breaks my heart. It's not Twin Peaks at all. It's some television show.

I'd rather it would have been just a single shot of Norma making pots of coffee and talking about getting old and reflecting on life -oddities like that they examine the mundane and normal routines, yet hidden dangers underneath it.

I understand the trappings it found itself in -it had to supply a certain amount of episodes for the buyer (the network) and has to provide narratives/storylines that they think the viewers can tune into and follow at anytime.

I'm could go on and on and probably will -for some kind of outlet. But I forget I'm new to this board and must seem so negative. I'm just interested in examining what went wrong -or the possibility of what could have been.

I do like the final episode quite a bit -although, I always substitute Audrey for Annie. For the most part, for any new person that I've watched the show with -we usually only watch through Maddy being found (a nice circle from the pilot) and then watch the finale.
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Juan Franela
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Postby Juan Franela » Tue May 01, 2007 7:41 pm

I would have preferred that Leland simply banged his head and died than the bit with Ray Wise over-acting while Coop strokes his hair and repeats "Into the light" over and over. Gah!

Still, I love the second half of the 2nd season. The Miss Twin Peaks Contest is worth the price of admission in and of itself...as is the fleshing out of Major Briggs' character: "Achievement is its own reward; pride obscures it". Priceless!
"Every day, once a day, give yourself a present."
sloclub
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Postby sloclub » Tue May 01, 2007 11:43 pm

Of course I don't pretend that TP was perfect. There were flaws, but I submit not so many as we have been led to believe. Certainly some stories could have been stronger, that is, more developed and treated more innovatively than they were.

But compare TP to almost any TV of any quality and I think that given a fair appraisal, TP will always come out on top.

Audrey Horne how can you claim that TP is your favorite show yet hate everything about it? Most people hate and dispise shows when they have as many complaints as you do.

As for what went wrong? We, the fans, acted like sheep. We let ourselves get led around by the nose by network suits and scooty critics and an impatient audience. I think that with Season 2 out on DVD now, many more in our community will come to appreciate Season 2 more. As time goes on TP fandom will be vindicated.

I hope we reclaim TP for ourselves and not let a culture of negativity continue to cloud our judgment.
Through the darkness of futures past,

the magician longs to see

One chants out,

between two worlds,

fire walk with me.
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silenttwn
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Postby silenttwn » Tue May 01, 2007 11:50 pm

Juan Franela wrote:I would have preferred that Leland simply banged his head and died than the bit with Ray Wise over-acting while Coop strokes his hair and repeats "Into the light" over and over. Gah!


It was cheesy but so are a lot of things on Twin Peaks. I liked it. It's actually one of my favorite episodes on the show. It made sense for Cooper to comfort Leland at his last moment. Out of all the characters on the show, he's probably the only one who fully understands the situation (that otherworldy forces fueled Leland's crimes) and his comforting Leland reminds me of the last scene in Fire Walk With Me with Cooper comforting Laura. Cooper is a character of light so it felt right for him to play priest for Leland.

About Season 2, what I found helpful: fast forward through all the James/Evelyn and Little Nicky subplots. Dunno, I'm sure some people like Dick Tremayne and enjoy the LN subplot but I hated the character. And James... god dang most annoying character ever.

The first and last third of season 2 is good stuff. It's just that middle third of filler is what brings it down.
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Red Room
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Postby Red Room » Wed May 02, 2007 2:50 am

sloclub wrote:As for what went wrong? We, the fans, acted like sheep. We let ourselves get led around by the nose by network suits and scooty critics and an impatient audience.

This is interesting, because personally nothing went wrong for me... I didn't see most of Season 2 at the time it was aired, due to life and 'stuff' in general getting in the way, so I've been watching it recently with virgin eyes.

Since joining this board at its' inception in January, I have (until now) avoided any threads which threatened to spoil the plot, and was therefore blissfully unaware of the gripes many folks have about S2.

sloclub wrote:Of course I don't pretend that TP was perfect. There were flaws, but I submit not so many as we have been led to believe. Certainly some stories could have been stronger, that is, more developed and treated more innovatively than they were.

I concur ' It's not perfect, but it gets closer than most shows ever do.

silenttwn wrote:The first and last third of season 2 is good stuff. It's just that middle third of filler is what brings it down.

Sure, the middle third is undoubtedly less eventful than the beginning or end, but that's typical of the second act in any play ;-) Personally I wasn't that bothered by the James spin-off story arc, but even that had subtle moments of brilliance.

I'm not an apologist for Lynch, (or Frost), but perhaps I approach this work from a different angle than some. I'm a huge fan of David's work in general, and own pretty much everything he has produced. From my perspective Twin Peaks is just one part of that rich output, and in no way defines his "˜career'.

silenttwn wrote:
Juan Franela wrote:I would have preferred that Leland simply banged his head and died than the bit with Ray Wise over-acting while Coop strokes his hair and repeats "Into the light" over and over. Gah!

It was cheesy but so are a lot of things on Twin Peaks. I liked it. It's actually one of my favorite episodes on the show. It made sense for Cooper to comfort Leland at his last moment. Out of all the characters on the show, he's probably the only one who fully understands the situation (that otherworldy forces fueled Leland's crimes) and his comforting Leland reminds me of the last scene in Fire Walk With Me with Cooper comforting Laura. Cooper is a character of light so it felt right for him to play priest for Leland.

I totally agree with you there. Twin Peaks is supposed to be a little cheesy at times ' It's that unique amalgamation of soap opera / dark thriller / science fantasy / and signature Lynch absurdity that defines the show!

Audrey Horne wrote:yeah, I just sat through the entire episode of Miss Twin Peaks (2021) for the first time in fifteen years. It breaks my heart. It's not Twin Peaks at all. It's some television show

I'm could go on and on and probably will -for some kind of outlet. But I forget I'm new to this board and must seem so negative. I'm just interested in examining what went wrong -or the possibility of what could have been...

You are perfectly entitled to you opinion, but it seems to me that what you're looking for is a whole different show! The very things that you struggle with are amongst the core characteristics of the series. :-)
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Audrey Horne
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Postby Audrey Horne » Wed May 02, 2007 7:10 am

You are perfectly entitled to you opinion, but it seems to me that what you're looking for is a whole different show! The very things that you struggle with are amongst the core characteristics of the series.

I don't understand at all -I guess I'm looking for an entirely different show from what was shown from 2012-2021.

I love the show more than anything I've ever seen on TV before -or probably will. The things that I felt were the core characteristics of the show were completely absent in the last ten or so episodes -save the finale.

I look at something like Nadine, Ed, Norma's finale scene -which is essentially silly and more of the fluff that had been presented the past few months -but in the hands of Lynch and it's exploration in its rather simplicity, it becomes more dangerous, endearing, and truly tragic.

Love, love, love the show -but am disappointed and saddened by the second half of the second season -lots of the actors and Lynch, and Peyton feel the same way.

Nothing but love for everyone here. -honest
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Brad D
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Postby Brad D » Wed May 02, 2007 1:12 pm

i think one thing we are failing to realize in relation to this show's demise is the fact that the first part of season 2 is when casual viewers started falling off. the masses really loved season 1 and right off the bat in season 2 the show turns into something very different than what it was.

yes, some of us think it is genius but there was quite a bit of disturbing scenery in early season 2 which really drove alot of people away. i think abc was ready to pull the plug even before leland was revealed as the killer.

i have no qualms about the pilot through episode 16 or the finale, but seriously any of us could have written better material than what we are given in eps. 17-25. i'm not saying that to be an ass, i really think that. (gotta love david duchovny though)
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Red Room
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Postby Red Room » Wed May 02, 2007 1:44 pm

Brad D wrote:i think one thing we are failing to realize in relation to this show's demise is the fact that the first part of season 2 is when casual viewers started falling off. the masses really loved season 1 and right off the bat in season 2 the show turns into something very different than what it was.

Personally, I'm not failing to realise any such thing. I've never cared much for what "the masses" think about anything really, (be it music, film, whatever), whether it's in tune with my taste or not. Consequently my impressions on S2 are based wholly on the here-and-now, regardless of past ratings, or ongoing debates... As I stated in an earlier post, I was oblivious to the fact that (apparently) so many folks had a problem with the second season, and therefore that 'fact' failed to colour my views. ;-)

I don't believe that the show "turned into something very different" in Season 2 - It simply progressed, and clearly some people had a hard time dealing with the more 'unusual' aspects that came to the fore ' whilst I personally love these developments.

As I've said before, there are weak spots in the series, but I felt that was true of Season 1 also, which at times bordered on being a little too much of a strait-laced soap opera Almost.

This is just my opinion though, and just as my mind is made up on the subject, I appreciate that those who disagree will feel equally convinced in their arguments. :-)
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Audrey Horne
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Postby Audrey Horne » Wed May 02, 2007 5:18 pm

I like talking about it and dissecting it -behind the scenes as well. It's just like any great literary work.

I kind of like that there are problems with it too -to me it seems still open ended and not a completed piece, so plenty to talk about. I find the problems that face the second season kind of fascinating.

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