Fan edits, fan art, official editing, etc...

Discussion of Twin Peaks and Fire Walk With Me

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Re: Twin Peaks: Season Three confirmed for 2016 on Showtime

Postby Ajax Rules » Sun May 17, 2015 12:27 am

LostInTheMovies wrote: I've dragged my feet to watch the FWWM/MP fanedit for that reason and also because the idea that you can just jam together two completely different works (however they were shot, Lynch cut and mixed them in radically different fashion) bugs me.


Two completely different works? Really???? Isn't that 'a bit' overstated?
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Re: Twin Peaks: Season Three confirmed for 2016 on Showtime

Postby Agent Sam Stanley » Sun May 17, 2015 12:42 am

Interesting to see all that talk about fan edits just when I was thinking about returning to my own FWWM edit.
I was waiting to see if Season 3 would happen, otherwise I was aiming to cut off the cliffhanger (the nurse and the ring), but honestly, we won't know for sure if the new season will cover any of that until we're actually watching it, so I'm stuck again lol

Si78 wrote:I am all for fan edits that try to fix known studio interference.


Yep, I'm all for that too. Still waiting to find a HD master of Blair Witch 2 so I can work on.
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Re: Twin Peaks: Season Three confirmed for 2016 on Showtime

Postby Ajax Rules » Sun May 17, 2015 12:57 am

I still hope that someone (preferably Lynch) will take it on himself to cut down episode 17-28 into two or three episodes.

- It should be fairly simple (despite some minor difficulties)
- It leaves in tact all the good episodes.
- It does not 'change history' or canon, it's just a different (shorter) portrayal of the same history.
- It results in a show of consistent quality, better pacing and a better viewers experience (for both existing and new fans, who could not even make it to S3 if they have to watch all the garbage and are bored out before it even takes off).
- The original episodes (17-28) and the edit could be on a new dvd simultaneously. It's not against the interests of those who like episodes 17-28 or the original editing.
Last edited by Ajax Rules on Sun May 17, 2015 1:00 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Twin Peaks: Season Three confirmed for 2016 on Showtime

Postby LostInTheMovies » Sun May 17, 2015 1:05 am

Ajax Rules wrote:
LostInTheMovies wrote: I've dragged my feet to watch the FWWM/MP fanedit for that reason and also because the idea that you can just jam together two completely different works (however they were shot, Lynch cut and mixed them in radically different fashion) bugs me.


Two completely different works? Really???? Isn't that 'a bit' overstated?


How so? They are literally presented as two different entities on the blu-ray. Lynch has emphatically stated again and again that Fire Walk With Me is the film it is supposed to be and he made a point of not restoring the deleted scenes to the film.

And aesthetically, they are worlds apart. The master shots, long takes, and minimal score of the MP have nothing in common with the intense, in-your-face shot selection and immersive sound design of FWWM.
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Re: Twin Peaks: Season Three confirmed for 2016 on Showtime

Postby wurmheart » Sun May 17, 2015 1:24 am

Jonah wrote:Agree with Kmkmiller. I'm against fan edits on principle too. Also against fan fiction.Now, I understand writing fan fiction, or participating in fan-edits on a private basis, for experience, but releasing it out there into the world is sort of tacky in my opinion. I think there's something obnoxious about it, like you're trying to "improve" on something the original creator did or can't come up with your own ideas or trying to set the record straight. I think the original creator and creation should be honoured, not meddled with. I get the homage thing, I just feel it's a bit off if I'm honest, and as a writer, I find it offensive. If I was a filmmaker, I think I would too. I think people should make their own kind of music too, not mimic others. Just my take on it. My own personal view. I don't campaign against fan fiction or fan edits, but I don't endorse them either.


I'm also not a fan of fan fiction, I too find them tacky, but I don't think anyone is trying to improve things with fanfiction. The reason why someone writes a fan fiction is almost always out of deep love for the source material and just wanting to experience more of it. The reason fan fiction doesn't interest me is because it's nearly always done for nothing but self indulgence. Which isn't really a bad thing! Why not indulge yourself if you have some free time? Just not something I give any artistic merit. But fan fic has been around since Don Quixote and always will be as long as people have fiction they love. It has no serious goals so don't take it too seriously.

I think fan edits can be the same thing, although those Star Wars prequel edits sound kind of great. I think of them mostly more as a tribute than a genuine attempt to improve things, especially with something as revered as Twin Peaks. I think all that stuff, fan art, fan fics, fan edits, cosplay and what not, they're just tributes. People make them out of love. So I can't see any problem with those things.

That being said if they did cut down season 2 I would be so upset. I hate retconning stuff. Even if that stuff was dumb or boring. I wouldn't be able to stand that. I'm sure that wont happen, but I would hate that even if it was all done by Lynch (though that's the only way I would be able to tolerate it at all). Fan edits are fine when they're all in good fun, but seriously trying to change the established canon is where I draw the line.
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Re: Twin Peaks: Season Three confirmed for 2016 on Showtime

Postby LostInTheMovies » Sun May 17, 2015 1:57 am

Aside from the broader issues involved with fanedits (which generally strike me as the LEAST interesting, adventurous, critical, or creative ways to repurpose texts), there is also the specific question of the given material.

I've mentioned the aesthetic objections to combining FWWM with the Missing Pieces but I also find it offensive on a narrative/character level. The film is Laura's story. Throwing in a bunch of other stuff to get a "bigger picture" of the town bugs me. The character was essentially cut from the second half of the series that began by centering around her and she's a type of character - the beautiful victim, ideal as a corpse but ignored as a human being - who usually gets overlooked in mystery narratives. To put her center stage in her own film is a really radical and powerful gesture on Lynch's part.

Crowding her out with a bunch of incidental town scenes and some comic relief and fanservice and sequel-bait cliffhangers ("I haven't brushed my teeth!" bad-dum-ba! cue the angel) robs FWWM of that power. I think it was a bad idea for Lynch to attempt this in the first place, and I think he himself recognized this by cutting these elements from the film (honestly, I've even wondered whether the non-Laura stuff that's in the film belongs there though I've grown to love much of it). The Missing Pieces are great to see on their own but putting them back in the film waters it down, period. This isn't a great film because it's Twin Peaks: The Movie. It's a great film because it's The Laura Palmer Story.

Changing that turns the film back into something safer and more palatable. I really don't like that. Just my 2 cents, and hopefully my last on the subject of fanedits.

P.S. Fanfiction seems totally harmless to me and honestly kind of adorable/lovable at times. I haven't read/written any but I'm very glad it exists because speaks of a genuine emotional enthusiasm for a piece of work. At least when it's at that personal, passionate level.
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Re: Twin Peaks: Season Three confirmed for 2016 on Showtime

Postby Mark B » Sun May 17, 2015 3:15 am

As someone that's done a few pieces of TP fan art (and my style is not fitting for TP at all) I can only say it's done from a place of deep love for the material. I suspect most fan fic writers, people who throw TP events, cosplay, burlesque, etc. Do it for the same reason. They love the source and are interpreting aspects of it through their own lense and want to spend more time with those aspects. I can't look down on anyone doing something from a place of love or enthusiasm.
To add to that thought: I've drawn Cooper so many times I can't count. I've drawn Laura once (and regretted it). The reason being that my style simple doesn't fit her story and I feel it trivialises a subject that is very close to me.
Lynch is someone who refuses to explain his art as he wants people to take their own meaning from his work. Fan culture and tributes are just one other way of expressing that.
Last edited by Mark B on Sun May 17, 2015 4:26 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Twin Peaks: Season Three confirmed for 2016 on Showtime

Postby james » Sun May 17, 2015 4:00 am

All good points by Mark and LostintheMovies above. We've all been inspired very much by Twin Peaks as a work, its imagery, mood, characters and style.

The fan edit of FWWM was, there is no denying this, tied into the most soulless and vapid aspect of fan culture - it was thrown together in a week, after the release of the blu-ray. It was making material available to fans who would otherwise have to go out and buy the blu-ray.

It was rushed together so quickly, the editing was bound to be lacking. The soundtrack choices added to it were awkward and showed a lack of nuance and subtlety, merely apeing what FWWM already had done. Lynch deliberately chose shots and takes that were distinct from the rest of FWWM, to make a separate entity to the rest of the film. To just shoe-horn them in didn't make a lot of sense.

Regardless, I don't know where the discussion went to end on fan edits. With a Lynch film, adding footage and music is going to obviously end up seeming amateur. There will always be fans who have a desire to make their own little hermetically-sealed 'definitive' version of things, selling multitudes of t-shirts with 'Directed by David Lynch' on them and so on. But it's an area that Lynch must look at and think is such a waste of time and effort.
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Re: Twin Peaks: Season Three confirmed for 2016 on Showtime

Postby 4815162342 » Sun May 17, 2015 4:45 am

One more vote against fan edits, fan fiction, fan any-contribution. If Lynch and Frost want to reedit season 2, I'll accept that, though I have reservations about that as well. I think it's best that they just cope with what they did originally, for better or worse. Think Nikki and Paulo.
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Re: Twin Peaks: Season Three confirmed for 2016 on Showtime

Postby Qubism » Sun May 17, 2015 5:38 am

Wow I didn't want to derail this onto fan edits but I'll just say this:

The very first time I got a DVD player and a disc with some deleted scenes, I immediately wished I could see them re-integrated, not because its better, or I know best, just for curiosity! I think one of my alien blu-ray of alien 3 shows the theatrical cut and .... a longer cut, not sure who did it but I'm sure it wasn't Fincher. But hey so what? It's usually just if there's something I love, I'm happy to see alternate possibilities, in music, many people love a remix and there are tons of bottleg mixes (which are fan edits...) Should Moby not have made Go!? also should he then have another 10 remixes by other people? Of course he should because it finally ended up with my favourite mix appearing!

Someone once said all art is editing. Anything someone creates that they don't have to, ie choose to create for their own pleasure is fine with me. I also am quite happy if they put it up on the internet so long as they don't claim its all their own work or try to actually make a profit out of it. Of all of these things the other thing is if you don't like it, don't watch it but don't stop me choosing to watch it. The Parrot Bay has finished DLing but when do I have 3.5 hours spare? Soon, soon,

Maybe we can get back to the 3rd season! Does everyone think the town itself will be exactly the same or full of Starbucks and McDonalds? Surely not but no town stays exactly the same over 25 years. Imagine if the lumbar industry had collapsed and we have a ghost town? Surely not though but the evil spirits may have ruined a lot of things..... Also some things have changed in the real world in 25 years like mobile phones. Modern tech does sometimes play quite a role in stories, the internet is a thing now... would there be an internet cafe run by the log lady? (probably not....)

What changes in Twin Peaks the town in 25 years?
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Re: Twin Peaks: Season Three confirmed for 2016 on Showtime

Postby LostInTheMovies » Sun May 17, 2015 6:01 am

Mark B wrote:As someone that's done a few pieces of TP fan art (and my style is not fitting for TP at all) I can only say it's done from a place of deep love for the material. I suspect most fan fic writers, people who throw TP events, cosplay, burlesque, etc. Do it for the same reason. They love the source and are interpreting aspects of it through their own lense and want to spend more time with those aspects. I can't look down on anyone doing something from a place of love or enthusiasm.
To add to that thought: I've drawn Cooper so many times I can't count. I've drawn Laura once (and regretted it). The reason being that my style simple doesn't fit her story and I feel it trivialises a subject that is very close to me.
Lynch is someone who refuses to explain his art as he wants people to take their own meaning from his work. Fan culture and tributes are just one other way of expressing that.


Yeah I think sometimes attaching the word "fan" to something becomes derogatory, but really some of this stuff can be pretty amazing. Just recently stumbled across this Evangelion "fanart" that knocked my socks off: http://41.media.tumblr.com/9b5649881660c2e8ae8e8bce4e258d87/tumblr_mglv6jb4rN1qk28fqo1_500.jpg. A lot of the boundaries between "legitimate" art, criticism, scholarly work, fan admiration has broken down. Ultimately what's important is the quality of the work itself.
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Re: Twin Peaks: Season Three confirmed for 2016 on Showtime

Postby Methedrome » Sun May 17, 2015 7:36 am

I would think with the impending production of over 9 hours of material, any sort of treatment or revision edit of season two would hardly be anyone's priority.
Outside of the obvious question of why.
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Re: Twin Peaks: Season Three confirmed for 2016 on Showtime

Postby Neosmith » Sun May 17, 2015 8:57 am

james wrote:The fan edit of FWWM was, there is no denying this, tied into the most soulless and vapid aspect of fan culture - it was thrown together in a week, after the release of the blu-ray. It was making material available to fans who would otherwise have to go out and buy the blu-ray.


Actually, the whole point of a fan edit is to supplement the authorized version. That is, fan editors promote the idea that no one should download a fan cut unless he has already purchased the official version and the materials from which it is assembled first. Of course, they have no control over who actually downloads their stuff. But there is nothing vapid or soulless about this - you are basically perpetuating the corporate logic that considers fan works as a morally outrageous acts of theft.

And the fact that it was made in a week doesn't necessarily indicate its quality - it could speak to the fact that already a lot of revising wasn't necessary.
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Re: Twin Peaks: Season Three confirmed for 2016 on Showtime

Postby james » Sun May 17, 2015 9:02 am

Neosmith wrote:
james wrote:The fan edit of FWWM was, there is no denying this, tied into the most soulless and vapid aspect of fan culture - it was thrown together in a week, after the release of the blu-ray. It was making material available to fans who would otherwise have to go out and buy the blu-ray.


Actually, the whole point of a fan edit is to supplement the authorized version. That is, fan editors promote the idea that no one should download a fan cut unless he has already purchased the official version and the materials from which it is assembled first. Of course, they have no control over who actually downloads their stuff. But there is nothing vapid or soulless about this - you are basically perpetuating the corporate logic that considers fan works as a morally outrageous acts of theft.

And the fact that it was made in a week doesn't necessarily indicate its quality - it could speak to the fact that already a lot of revising wasn't necessary.


I'm not being pro-corporate. The fan edit of FWWM with the Missing Pieces was pretty poor. It didn't feel right, the added soundtrack choices felt clumsy. If someone had spent a month working on it I'd think 'ah, well this could be of interest' but it was thrown out in a week when the interest was high. Really, there was no new interesting editing going on, it was just a scrapbook fan adding in of the extra scenes. When I say 'soulless' I mean it didn't feel like any big effort was made. Lynch himself had really put in some effort with the deleted scenes edit we saw. So, I couldn't see anything could be improved by just ramming them into a film they weren't meant to be part of anyway!

Nonetheless, all of that fan editing of Lynch's work is irrelevant now. We've just had confirmation Twin Peaks is going ahead, all is great! Why ruin that with petty talk about re-editing or fan work? I'm not against anyone doing their own edits, that's great for them. But its not interesting to me unless it was maybe a new edit by Lynch or someone who usually worked with him.

Please can we discuss the new series from now on. Pretty please. x x x
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Re: Twin Peaks: Season Three confirmed for 2016 on Showtime

Postby Ygdrasel » Sun May 17, 2015 9:13 am

james wrote:
Neosmith wrote:
james wrote:It [FWWM fanedit] was making material available to fans who would otherwise have to go out and buy the blu-ray.


you are basically perpetuating the corporate logic that considers fan works as a morally outrageous acts of theft.


I'm not being pro-corporate.


You kind of are...Right there with the whole thing about it only being made to make material free for people.

james wrote:Really, there was no new interesting editing going on, it was just a scrapbook fan adding in of the extra scenes.


Yes, it was exactly what it was intended and advertised to be. More things should be so honest in advertising, frankly.



Frankly...Frank...I wonder how/if they'll handle BOB in the new season...
Twin Peaks has layers, man. Twin Peaks is an onion. 8)

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