Wishes...Hopes...& Dreams

Discussion of Twin Peaks TV Series, Fire Walk With Me, and Books

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Re: Wishes...Hopes...& Dreams

Postby LostInTheMovies » Sun Sep 20, 2015 6:02 pm

Audrey Horne wrote:I would actually love to see this done as if they have broadcast constraints. I think that would be fun.

Meaning they treat it like it is old school Production Code Hollywood, or network television standards. They have to be more clever in getting around language, sex, nudity, etc. I'm no prude, I just love directors like Hitchcock, Sturges, Lubitsch who said no problem, and then put in the filthiest innuendoes imaginable. The smart people got it.

Then when we're lured into this format, they still have the freedom to go all out and surprise us with cable and film allowances.


I would like this as well - with many hours to fill they could start us luring into this world and then when it gets dark, strange, disturbing, etc, it will really feel like a shock again. Or at least as much as possible after already pulling this trick once. My mantra is that I want this series to embrace the whole spectrum of Lynch from Straight Story to Inland Empire.
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Re: Wishes...Hopes...& Dreams

Postby LostInTheMovies » Sun Sep 20, 2015 6:10 pm

Rami Airola wrote:Also, I would like to see a scene where people talk about Leland and Laura and what a shock it was to learn the truth 25 years ago.


I want ONE scene like this. More than that might be overkill, but one scene feels necessary, even if it's just with one character (preferably Bobby, Donna, or Doc Hayward; in theory James would also be ok but I just can't see him selling the moment). Doc Hayward would be best, because then it wouldn't just be about Laura but also Leland.

I never like to say we are owed anything as an audience, but yeah, frankly, Lynch and Frost DO owe us this. The entire first half of Twin Peaks was about the town's reaction to her death and confusion about how and why this could happen to her and then when the truth about her comes out they 100% drop the ball and abandon the subject.
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Re: Wishes...Hopes...& Dreams

Postby euro » Mon Sep 21, 2015 4:10 pm

What about the Intro ?? Think, we'll get a new one. It would be nice to listen to the FWWM - Main Theme, but I think we get a new Intro with a new Version of Falling.
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Re: Wishes...Hopes...& Dreams

Postby SandWorm19 » Mon Sep 21, 2015 11:46 pm

euro wrote:What about the Intro ?? Think, we'll get a new one. It would be nice to listen to the FWWM - Main Theme, but I think we get a new Intro with a new Version of Falling.


I could get behind a different incarnation of the theme song.

I vote for MC Chris' Twin Peaks song!...haha kidding...although I do like that song.
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Re: Wishes...Hopes...& Dreams

Postby EwanM » Tue Sep 22, 2015 3:12 am

First time poster here. Really excited about S3 of Twin Peaks, and delighted that Lynch is directing the entire run. While I loved Twin Peaks at the time, watching it again recently (after purchasing the box set), I was struck by how dated it seemed in places, and how uneven it was. There were moments of magnificence, particularly within the Lynch-directed episodes, but a lot of it hasn't aged that well. I agree with (forum contributor) Agent Sam Stanley - much of the 'coffee and cherry pie quirkiness' seems a bit stale now, particularly after Fire Walk With Me.

I was one of the TP aficionados who didn't really rate FWWM when it first came out. It didn't seem to fit with the TV series at all. I just didn't 'get' the false start - the Deer Meadow sequence; Lil the dancing girl; the Blue Rose stuff. Sam Stanley's tics seemed annoying; the sour denizens of Deer Meadow were unglamorous and unwelcoming, complete inversions of the (mainly) sexy, sunny, friendly residents of Twin Peaks. It seemed like Lynch was toying with our expectations, giving us exactly what we didn't want. It was too much to process, uncompromising and alien, when most of us were expecting the familiar.

Watching FWWM that first time, I was relieved when the familiar TP theme tune finally kicked in and we were back in the town we loved, the scent of fresh pines replacing the stale aroma of last night's leftovers at Hap's Diner, but it still wasn't quite right. Something was off: Donna wasn't 'Donna'; Laura Palmer was flesh and blood not a telegenic corpse wrapped in plastic; most of the well-loved townsfolk were missing; there was no resolutely cheerful Dale Cooper here.

FWWM was a harrowing and disorientating experience, but, as is usually the case with Lynch movies, it has grown with subsequent viewings into something incredibly powerful and transcendent. For me at least, FWWM resonates much more deeply than the TV series. There is an authenticity and emotional heft to the movie that precludes reversion to the trivial/wacky tone of much of the TV series. The tonal shift from TP to FWWM was jarring, but to shift back now would seem like a sell out. I just don't see Lynch abandoning FWWM - it is not merely a part of the TP universe, it is central now, like an ominous black hole at the centre of a galaxy.

The symbolic destruction of the TV set at the start of FWWM was a declaration of intent. TP, the TV show, lost direction and focus, as it drifted aimlessly through S2, helmed by a succession of directors who could never hope to replicate Lynch's vision or style. Lynch's S2 finale was a rebuke to much that preceded it, a dark and surreal trip ending on an uncomfortable subversion, the metamorphosis of nice Agent Cooper into Evil Dale, that surely signalled Lynch's uncompromising vision for the future of the saga, so bleakly realised in FWWM.

As time passes, I am ever more intrigued by the mysteries of FWWM.

Frankly, and I know I will be out of step with many of the contributors to this board on this, I care little about Ben Horne, Catherine Martell, The Packard Mill etc.
I want to know more, much more, about Chester Desmond, Phillip Jeffries, Sam Stanley, the mysterious Judy, Carl Rodd and the Tremonds/Chalfonts.

Clearly this mystery is not limited to Twin Peaks. I would like to see Lynch take an expansive view of this mysterious world, to pull the camera back from it's preoccupation with the inhabitants of Twin Peaks and reveal more about Deer Meadow, Seattle and other locations.

I am greatly intrigued by the notion that there could be some, as yet unrevealed, nexus between the worlds of Twin Peaks, Lost Highway and Mulholland Dr. It seems possible that the terrifying Mystery Man from Lost Highway and the Cowboy from Mulholland Dr. are entities that have frequented the Black Lodge and have some connection with The Man from Another Place and BOB.

I am rather taken by Lost in the Movies' suggestion that S3 might unify all of Lynch's work to date. The 'Sinnerman' outro to Inland Empire , with the appearance of Laura Harring/Camilla Rhodes from Mulholland Dr. and the reference to Twin Peaks, suggested that Lynch regards his individual works as pieces of a larger jigsaw puzzle, that can be slotted together to form a unified whole. Personally, I would love to see Lynch 'fold in' at least some of the aspects and characters (particularly the supernatural entities) of the worlds of Mulholland Dr. and Lost Highway to S3, though I concede that might be a controversial view.

So, in summary, my wishes hopes and dreams for S3:

1) Dale Cooper. I hope this series focuses more on 'Evil Dale.'

2) Laura Palmer. She is integral to Twin Peaks and the series is unimaginable without her presence, in one form or another.

3) Agent Chester Desmond. Where happened after he disappeared at the Fat Trout Trailer Park?

4) Phillip Jeffries. I want to know about those missing years. What happened at that meeting? Why did Jeffries say, 'Who do you think this is there?', while pointing at Cooper? Did Jeffries have a premonition of, or an insight into, the future Evil Dale, or was Agent Cooper not quite as innocent as we thought?

5) Judy. Perhaps the most enigmatic figure in all TP/FWWM mythology. I want to know more.

6) Carl Rodd. I want to know more about the places he'd 'gone', and what it was about those places and experiences that made him 'just want to stay' where he was? And what has happened to him, and where has he been, since FWWM? Harry Dean Stanton is wonderful. One look at the world-weary Carl Rodd is all you need to know that he has a tale or two to tell.

7) Albert Rosenfield. Miguel Ferrer is great in this role.

8 ) Gordon Cole. Of course.

9) The Man from Another Place. Almost as integral/iconic as Laura Palmer. TP wouldn't be TP without Michael J. Anderson.

10) Leland Palmer. Ray Wise has to be there. IMO, Leland was the real villain of FWWM, not BOB. No exculpatory sleight of hand in the movie. Leland was a child molester and a murderer, not a nice guy temporarily possessed by evil spirits, as the TV show seemed to suggest.

11) Bobby. Much more complex than the bland James (who, along with Donna, I can take or leave). Bobby gone bad, hopefully.

12) Shelly. I can never get enough Mädchen. Still beautiful after all these years.

13) Agent Sam Stanley. I've grown to like his idiosyncrasies.

14) Annie Blackburn. I love Heather Graham, even if her character in the TV series was rather vapid. Hoping for more from her this time round, if she features.

15) Deer Meadow, Twin Peaks 'ugly doppelgänger'. I want to know more about it and meet more of it's surly, unhelpful residents.

16) Seattle and the room above the convenience store. Who lived there?

17) New young characters and unknown actors. I don't want S3 to be a retirement home. TP was fresh and vibrant when it arrived out of nowhere. It trashed conventions and expectations. I can't see Lynch pandering to the expectations of fans. He's an artist not a populist. Lynch can work magic with unknowns. Fresh-faced innocents have populated his work from Blue Velvet to Mulholland Dr. I simply can't see S3 being all about the oldies, though they will have their part to play. I like the idea of an investigative journalist discovering the world of TP through fresh eyes.

18) Would love to see the beautiful Chrysta Bell feature in this series somewhere, perhaps as a chanteuse. Lana Del Rey would fit right in too.

19) Badalamenti. New Badalementi music is always good news. His soundtrack to FWWM was majestic.

20) I'd like to know more about other Blue Rose cases, and if, and how, they tie in with the mysteries of TP.

21) I would love to see cross-pollination of TP with the essence of other Lynch works, particularly Lost Highway and Mulholland Dr. TP is merely one location (or portal) within the Lynch Multiverse, and I hope that we see some characters, references or echoes from other Lynch works in S3. The Cowboy and The Mystery Man seem particularly compatible with the world/mythology of TP.

22) A synthesis of the best elements of the film and the TV show, ideally closer in tone to the movie. It's 2015 and it's on Showtime - this can be dark, surreal and challenging. Yes, there should, and will be, moments of humour and lightness to leaven the darkness, but let's not smother this in kitsch and wacky humour. My hope is for something darkly beautiful. If anyone is capable of truly transcendent TV it is Lynch.
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Re: Wishes...Hopes...& Dreams

Postby sneakydave » Tue Sep 22, 2015 4:22 am

Exactly what EwanM said.

All of it.

Captures everything that I'm too dumb to write down myself.
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Re: Wishes...Hopes...& Dreams

Postby saygoodbyetojack » Tue Sep 22, 2015 5:45 am

yep. Well said EwanM. thats pretty much word for word EXACTLY how i feel about TP and what im hoping for most in the new series
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Re: Wishes...Hopes...& Dreams

Postby timgerdes » Tue Sep 22, 2015 7:07 am

EwanM wrote:Frankly, and I know I will be out of step with many of the contributors to this board on this, I care little about Ben Horne, Catherine Martell, The Packard Mill etc.

I want to know more, much more, about Chester Desmond, Phillip Jeffries, Sam Stanley, the mysterious Judy, Carl Rodd and the Tremonds/Chalfonts.

I am greatly intrigued by the notion that there could be some, as yet unrevealed, nexus between the worlds of Twin Peaks, Lost Highway and Mulholland Dr. It seems possible that the terrifying Mystery Man from Lost Highway and the Cowboy from Mulholland Dr. are entities that have frequented the Black Lodge and have some connection with The Man from Another Place and BOB.

The Man from Another Place. Almost as integral/iconic as Laura Palmer. TP wouldn't be TP without Michael J. Anderson.

New young characters and unknown actors. I don't want S3 to be a retirement home. TP was fresh and vibrant when it arrived out of nowhere. It trashed conventions and expectations. I can't see Lynch pandering to the expectations of fans. He's an artist not a populist. Lynch can work magic with unknowns. Fresh-faced innocents have populated his work from Blue Velvet to Mulholland Dr. I simply can't see S3 being all about the oldies, though they will have their part to play. I like the idea of an investigative journalist discovering the world of TP through fresh eyes.

I would love to see cross-pollination of TP with the essence of other Lynch works, particularly Lost Highway and Mulholland Dr. TP is merely one location (or portal) within the Lynch Multiverse, and I hope that we see some characters, references or echoes from other Lynch works in S3. The Cowboy and The Mystery Man seem particularly compatible with the world/mythology of TP.


I am also fairly new to this board, but I have been a fan of Twin Peaks since it first aired in 1990. Your wishlist is quite thoughtful and there is much I agree with, but there were a few observations in particular I disagree with.

The first point I'd make, and it is a critical one, is that Twin Peaks, unlike the rest of Lynch's work is a true collaboration with Mark Frost. Frankly I do not want to see any cross-pollination with other Lynch works if for no other reason than it diminishes Frost's importance to the series. One of the things that sets Twin Peaks apart from most of Lynch's work--moreso the series than the film--is that it is much more linear, plot-focused storytelling. While I am looking forward to Lynch's signature all over the new series, I am also looking forward to the discipline Frost brings to the project.

While I love FWWM and hope as you do the new series explores the characters and mythology the film introduced, I do think the film tips too far in the other direction and without the quirky townspeople to lighten things it is oppressively dark. Worth noting too that Frost was not involved in the film.

You mention new young characters, and I'm sure we will get them, but hope it isn't at the expense of old favorites. And I suspect it won't be. As you mention Lynch, unlike most of Hollywood, is not a panderer. But part of this is his willingness to explore characters who are older. Can you think of another show on TV that would dare spend time on an affair between two age appropriate characters like Ben Horne and Catherine Martell?

Lynch has a fondness for older character actors who are either obscure or have faded from popularity, like Richard Beymer, Piper Laurie, Russ Tamblyn, Harry Dean Stanton and Royal Dano in Twin Peaks. In other Lynch projects we've seen notables like Robert Forster, Ann Miller, Richard Farnsworth and Robert Blake.

One thing I've always admired about Lynch is his willingness not only to explore older characters but how deliberately--almost excruciatingly so--he paces scenes with such character. Consider the elderly bellhop "Señor Droolcup", Mayor Dwayne Milford or banker Dell Mibbler. In Lynch directed episodes watch how slowly their scenes are paced, bringing Cooper milk, or finding a safe deposit box.

I understand the desire for new faces, but Lynch could set the entire series in a retirement home and it would still be fascinating, partly because it defies expectation. Populating the town with fresh new faces and focusing on their stories is frankly more typical of an ordinary Hollywood reboot.

One more point about expectations, you mention the Little Man from Another Place, and how integral to the series he is. Michael J. Anderson had this to say about his character's return last October when the new series was announced:

On second thought, I realize now that me reappearing in the Newest Twin Peaks is a contradiction, an oxymoron if you will. That moment when I first appeared in Cooper's dream was such an unexpected shock to the nervous system of the viewers that left them petrified, frozen and paralyzed. It wasn't some brilliant character acting on my part. It was David's brilliant access to the surreal that never failed us. In the following decades people have replayed that terrifying moment in order to help overcome the fear of it, and in the process came to love the character (and circumstance) generating that fear. My returning to Twin Peaks would be just to see that lovable fear generator again. My original function on TP (to help create a shocking edge for reality) can no longer be done by someone as familiar (and dare I say loveable, LOL) as me. It's beautiful and wonderful that the fans would like to see me some more and I'm sure I'll milk that for all it's worth LOL, but in all honesty, my involvement is probably very unlikely. But, I understand why.


I think we have to consider the possibility that if Lynch isn't going to pander to expectations, that must also include the elements we really want to see.
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Re: Wishes...Hopes...& Dreams

Postby LostInTheMovies » Tue Sep 22, 2015 7:43 am

timgerdes wrote:The first point I'd make, and it is a critical one, is that Twin Peaks, unlike the rest of Lynch's work is a true collaboration with Mark Frost. Frankly I do not want to see any cross-pollination with other Lynch works if for no other reason than it diminishes Frost's importance to the series.


I was just thinking about this as well. Personally, I'd be fine with Lynch turning this into a grand summation of his career and hinting at connections to a broader Lynchverse with nods to MD, IE, LH, hell, SS too! (And if we want to go earlier, BV and WAH - earlier than that would seem harder to incorporate). But I would feel a bit sorry for Frost that Lynch was turning this into simply a swan song for himself. However, this needn't be the case because Frost has also authored several works that could easily be slipped in as well, most obviously The List of 7 which makes reference to a Red Room if I'm not mistaken. And Storyville could also find a place in there (in fact, Frost has already made a more explicit link between 2 of his works than Lynch ever has, by including his cameo as reporter Cyril Ponds in both movies!). I think there could be an attempt to connect this to the larger Lynchverse and Frostverse! :) They needn't be contradictory.

That said, I don't really expect the Mystery Man or Cowboy to show up. I think if there are links, they will be more subtle and suggestive than that. But I am betting we'll see Cyril Ponds again.

One of the things that sets Twin Peaks apart from most of Lynch's work--moreso the series than the film--is that it is much more linear, plot-focused storytelling. While I am looking forward to Lynch's signature all over the new series, I am also looking forward to the discipline Frost brings to the project.


Here's the thing though: aside from the pilot and arguably the first few episodes of season 1, Lynch's and Frost's collaboration was less a merging than a back-and-forth. And that's one of the things I find absolutely fascinating about the show - there are parts where it is clearly Frost playing with Lynch's toys, and clearly Lynch playing with Frost's. That will be less the case now that Lynch is directing every episode but I am hoping parts of the series will be very linear and plot-focused and that other parts will dispense with that completely. I think the important thing for me is that it include all extremes and at one point or another I need to see Lynch dispense completely with the discipline, I would say for at least a full episode. That's part of Twin Peaks too.

I think we have to consider the possibility that if Lynch isn't going to pander to expectations, that must also include the elements we really want to see.


While this is true, in regards to MJA I find it hard to believe Lynch would dispense entirely with the iconography of the first series, even if Silva's death forces him to largely abandon Bob. Lynch's tendency was less to dispose of things fans wanted to see than to bring back integral elements (usually from the pilot and alternate ending) that had been forgotten, everything from Heidi the waitress to Ronette to, of course, the Red Room and all its denizens. Even in the film where he cut out many characters (after, notably, attempting to include them all in a film that simply didn't have room for them) he makes sure to re-root the story in its origin by centering it around Laura Palmer and solidifying the Red Room mythology even more than he did in the finale, bringing back stuff like the One-Armed Man and the convenience store (and, from his early season 2 episodes, the Tremonds and creamed corn).

So that side of Twin Peaks seems to be something that Lynch really isn't interested in casting aside. Despite Anderson's take on the subject, I find it very, very hard to believe we won't see him at all in the new series. Especially since he seems to brush over how Lynch brought the Little Man back for the finale & FWWM despite his familiarity at that point. He had a larger purpose for him than just surprise/shock.
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Re: Wishes...Hopes...& Dreams

Postby N. Needleman » Tue Sep 22, 2015 8:34 am

I think FWWM is fantastic and essential, and I want it to be a part of the new show. But I think to say that any of it is a rejection of the series is not quite the case. Lynch's thing has always been presenting both darkness and light - both true goodness and true evil. There is a lot of the latter in FWWM and a lot of the former in the series, and it wasn't someone else who put it there.

All the lighter, less 'important' players, someone else didn't put them there either; Lynch did. He loves the Double R, coffee and pie, the gags, the comedy, the wholesomeness, etc. But he also enjoys delving into the dark. You can't have one without the other.
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Re: Wishes...Hopes...& Dreams

Postby Agent Sam Stanley » Wed Sep 23, 2015 9:19 am

I'm actually hoping the new season will be more FWWM, less pie and coffee. It should be both, but I expect the humor to be more dry and less obvious.
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Re: Wishes...Hopes...& Dreams

Postby Jonah » Thu Sep 24, 2015 8:26 am

I'm expecting the new season to be more in the style and tone of FWWM - to be a much darker, more experimental version of TP than possibly even that film, but I'd also like a lot of the cheery coffee-pie light stuff and old favourite characters back. I did see someone on IMDB say they wouldn't like it to be as experimental as "Inland Empire" though - and I have to say I agree with that. I appreciate that movie, went to see it twice in the cinema, but I think Lynch works a bit better when he's constrained a bit, at least in terms of an overarching episodic format. Obviously this time he won't be very constrained by the network (Showtime seemingly open to letting him do everything he wants), but I'm hoping Frost might reign him in a bit. I adore Lynch, though, so I'm open to anything really. The whole thing is wonderful and I still can't quite wrap my mind around the fact that this will be an entire season or more of TP entirely directed by Lynch and entirely written by Frost and Lynch! Wow Bob Wow!
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Re: Wishes...Hopes...& Dreams

Postby FauxOwl » Sat Sep 26, 2015 6:33 am

N. Needleman wrote:5. An expanded GLBT and multi-racial presence in the show


I don't have a big wishlist (other than Lynch directing) but seeing thus certainly made me add to it. Film and television is so white washed, and Lynch is unfortunately no exception, that I practically don't bother noting it anymore. The original series only had Hawk and Josie as significant minority characters and it'd hardly be a surprise if there were fewer when we pick up twenty five years later. I'd love to see some young relatives of Hawk have a significant presence. I'd also love to see them be fully realized characters who are not defined by their ethnicity like too many minority characters in TV. Nevins did say they need to do a better job with diversity so hopefully the new TP is part of that, but it'll be Lynch's call.
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Re: Wishes...Hopes...& Dreams

Postby TwinPeaksFanatic » Sat Sep 26, 2015 7:33 am

I'm trying not to have any expectations, because Lynch/Frost could surprise us in a way no one will see coming. However I think it will be fascinating to find out if Cooper is still trapped in the black lodge & how Mark Frost's book will fill in the gaps. I anticipate a darker feel like FWWM as well as more nudity & sex than the series had. I just hope it's not overkill like other Showtime shows.

I feel like Laura needs to return to help Cooper, but honestly I'd love to see everyone. Especially Truman, Albert, Audrey, Shelly, Bobby not to mention Leland & Sarah. Even though I wasn't a big Annie fan, I think Heather Graham needs to return in some capacity.

Mostly it will be interesting to see how the Bob situation is handled, given that Frank Silva is dead. I don't want a recast but it may be unavoidable. I just can't imagine another Bob, so silly as it may sound I'm hoping for some CGI Bob.
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Re: Wishes...Hopes...& Dreams

Postby Jonah » Sat Sep 26, 2015 8:26 am

I also don't want a BOB replacement, and really hope they don't go that route. I would be open to Ray Wise's Leland filling that sort of capacity, though not right out replacing BOB. I also hope for him to reappear via CGI but that it's kept to a minimum--fleeting, haunting glimpses.

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