Wishes...Hopes...& Dreams

Discussion of Twin Peaks TV Series, Fire Walk With Me, and Books

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Audrey Horne
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Re: Wishes...Hopes...& Dreams

Postby Audrey Horne » Mon Nov 23, 2015 9:56 am

were you beat up by a soap opera as a child?

seriously though, I get what you are saying.
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N. Needleman
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Re: Wishes...Hopes...& Dreams

Postby N. Needleman » Mon Nov 23, 2015 1:30 pm

I would appreciate the provocative nature if it was there. I don't believe it is, not with David Lynch and not on this topic.

IIRC, Lynch very ardently defended the soap opera as form at the time against people pooh-poohing the label. The fact is that the basic concept of soap opera remains an essential blueprint for a lot of our major television, either on cable, network or streaming. Most of what you see on HBO, AMC, Showtime, FX, etc. still at the very least has many, many elements of soap opera, serialized storytelling dealing in either a place or a grouping of families or a community with elements of heightened melodrama.

Soap opera, in one form or another, has been with us since oral history and whatever we dress it up as to pretend it's an entirely different June bride, it always will be. It's not a dirty word unless we make it out to be.

Do I think TP is way more than just soap opera? Oh yes, absolutely, just as Game of Thrones or The Sopranos or The Walking Dead or whatever else are much, much more than similar serialized sagas about certain people or places or families. TP in particular is also high art. But all of these shows' serialized, episodic roots on TV absolutely are intrinsically tied to and partly borne from soap. Lynch and Frost embraced that long ago and so did the rest of the world. Except some insecure TV critics - and maybe a few showrunners far more insecure than David Lynch.
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Agent Rosenflower
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Re: Wishes...Hopes...& Dreams

Postby Agent Rosenflower » Mon Dec 21, 2015 4:40 am

I kind of hope that we do not get too much Evil Coop and that there is an abundance of Good Coop as in how he was in the first season and not the Flannel Wearing Coop from mid season two.

I really hope we get Audrey Horne back and some of Ben and Jerry too.

I hope Andy is back

I hope whoever they get to replace Frank Silva as Bob is suitably menacing.

And....I hope it keeps me up at night the way the series did when it aired originally when I was 13 :shock:
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Panapaok
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Re: Wishes...Hopes...& Dreams

Postby Panapaok » Mon Dec 21, 2015 5:41 pm

I don't get why you people are so afraid of Evil Coop. There's so much potential there from an acting perspective to the story itself. Besides, through 18 episides we'll definitely get a lot of Good Coop, so why not exploring something different at the beginning of it as well?
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LiAnn
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Re: Wishes...Hopes...& Dreams

Postby LiAnn » Sun Jan 24, 2016 3:59 pm

Most of this stuff, I'm sure Frost and Lynch will do regardless (and if not, I'm sure they'll have a perfectly good reason for going the other way), but this is a hopes and dreams thread, so here are my biggest hopes and dreams for Season 3...

    Less cheating/love triangles. The original series dealt so heavily with infidelity and sexual intrigue (Bobby/Shelly/Leo, Norma/Ed/Nadine, Ben/Catherine/Pete, Bobby/Laura/James, Cooper/Caroline/Wyndam, Donna/James/Maddy, Ed/Norma/Hank, Andy/Lucy/Dick, Will/Eileen/Ben, James/Donna/Harold — the list goes on and on), and it worked... up to a point. In the year 2017, I hope Frost and Lynch have more in store for our favorite characters than tawdry love triangles and cheating subplots. That's not to say I don't enjoy these types of relationships, because I do. The Bobby/Shelly/Leo love triangle was particularly compelling (especially in Season 1), and I will forever cherish the tragicomedy that is Norma/Ed/Nadine. That being said, the show fell into a rather unfortunate pattern of using infidelity as a plot device, and I'd like to see that remedied in Season 3. I mean, is it really that hard to inject a “romantic” relationship with non-sexual tension? Personally, I'd like to see Lucy and Andy happily married with some kids and/or Bobby and Shelly in a stable relationship. They can have their ups and downs, sure, but I hope those ups and downs aren’t a result of yet another infidelity plotline.

    Character growth and duality. I’ve seen a lot of fans say they’re hoping for more of the same, and so am I, but again — and I hate to sound like a broken record — up to a point. For instance, I would love to see Donna embracing her Horne roots and, for lack of a better word, going bad (provided she's even in Season 3). In the original series, she was borderline obsessed with being like Laura, so it wouldn't surprise me if, after coming to grips with Maddy’s murder, James and Evelyn's affair, that God-awful paternity storyline, etc., she decided to lean heavily into the bad girl image she was (kind of) cultivating in Season 2. Of course, with the understanding that she’d eventually come full circle. Same goes for Bobby. I’ve heard a lot of people say they want him to be the Hank of Season 3, which surprises me. Personally, I’d love to see Bobby fulfill his father’s vision by marrying Shelly and becoming a productive member of society. The drama surrounding his character could easily come from another source, which I think would be much more interesting than Drug Deal Blues, Pt. 2. I'd also love to see some subversion of Audrey's sex kitten image. Unlike a lot of people, I think the character has far more to offer than Lolita comparisons and cherry pie innuendo. In fact, there are few characters I'm more interested in seeing than Audrey. How does a beautiful, snobby, rich little girl grow up into an adult who can no longer use her feminine wiles and coquettish charm the same way she did 20, 30 years ago?

    Equal balance of FWWM and the original series. This one’s pretty self-explanatory. I love the show, I love the movie, and I especially love the idea of their disparate styles coming together to make a truly unique Season 3. Basically, I want the dark heart of FWWM wrapped in the quirky, dreamlike aesthetic of the original series. This will, in my opinion, make the heavy scenes that much heavier while also giving us some of the pie and coffee charm we fell in love with the first go-around. One of my favorite things about Twin Peaks is its oddball sense of humor, and I hope it doesn't lose that in the new season. FWWM was Laura's story; therefore, it made sense that the irreverent, goofy scenes (and characters) wound up on the cutting room floor. This time, however, they can afford to keep that stuff in, and I think they should. It’ll create a more textured narrative and increase dramatic tension.

    Expand upon the mythology of FWWM. There were so many questions asked by this film, but so few answers given. How does electricity relate to the Black Lodge? Who is Judy? What happened to Phillip Jeffries and/or Chet Desmond? I’d love to get answers to at least some of these questions. That being said, I hope the answers we do get are vague and ephemeral. After all, much of FWWM's power comes from its head-scratching ability to answer one question while simultaneously posing another two.

    Original cast members with medium to large roles. I'm all for new characters occupying a prominent place in the narrative. After all, it's been 25 years. Surely, there's a whole new crop of teens with 20-something-year-old faces, and we already know Frost and Lynch have hired several middle-aged actors (Jennifer Jason Leigh, Grant Goodeve, Robert Forster, etc.) to fill out the cast, so I expect and look forward to new characters playing a large role in Season 3. That being said, I think one of the most narratively fulfilling things this new season can do is give us a good balance of old and new. For every Jennifer Jason Leigh, I'd like to see a Madchen Amick. For every Grant Goodeve, a Michael Horse. The original show had so many rich, multifaceted characters, and I'd love to see them occupying just as big a role as these admittedly exciting newcomers. I know a lot of people have said they don't want Season 3 to feel like a "reunion special." Well, one of the easiest ways to turn into a reunion special is to have old characters popping up in useless, wink-wink-nudge-nudge cameos. Frost and Lynch have the opportunity to do something really extraordinary with Season 3, and I think a vital part of that is making sure the old characters feel new again. I don't want the exact same Audrey Horne I left in Season 2; I want a character who's moved and breathed and grown in the last 25 years. That'll really be something.

Again, I trust Frost and Lynch implicitly, but this is what I'm hoping for in Season 3. 2017 can't come soon enough!
Sidgwick
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Re: Wishes...Hopes...& Dreams

Postby Sidgwick » Tue Feb 09, 2016 9:34 am

I hope we see Ben Horne repent for his rampant early capitalism by handing out copies of Das Kapital around town. I hope that it is he who is driving the car on which Amanda Seyfried and Shelly Johnson are atop because they arrived home late from the RR and weren’t given a copy. I hope he stops, gets out, dressed head to toe in drab commie clothing – understated cheque shirt, beige chinos, brown woollen sweater – and shouts in a thick Chinese accent, ‘WE THE PEOPLE!’ before declaring that there are plenty of books AND WEALTH to go around.
Saela
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Re: Wishes...Hopes...& Dreams

Postby Saela » Sun Feb 21, 2016 5:36 am

I think I remember Lynch once said that FWWM was as free and experimental as it could’ve been, considering that it took place in a previously established universe. So, as much as I obviously love Seasons 1 and 2, I hope Season 3 will be just as experimental and that Lynch doesn’t try too hard to make it look and sound and feel like the original show just because.

My biggest fear is that the Season 2 cliffhanger and the whole evil Coop stuff will somehow be explained away so that the show can have roughly the same Cooper everyone loves. I want to see evil Coop and I want Lynch to go wherever he feels like he needs to go.
Sidgwick
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Re: Wishes...Hopes...& Dreams

Postby Sidgwick » Sun Feb 21, 2016 5:56 am

My problem with an Evil Coop is that such a storyline has the potential to retcon the chilling internal horror of FWWM, which is as powerful as it is because it poses BOB and Leland as collaborators. Leland was a snaky lawyer in himself, a cheater, much more susceptible to the lodge spirits than Cooper, a relative paragon of virtue. Also, Leland himself was abused as a child, which made him all the more susceptible and lent the narrative a tragic bent. If BOB is able to control Coop without considerable resistance, it might take too much out of the human side of the story for me.
Saela
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Re: Wishes...Hopes...& Dreams

Postby Saela » Sun Feb 21, 2016 6:09 am

Maybe BOB does have a much harder time with cotrolling Cooper, that would be fine, I guess I just want it to be a significant part of season 3's story.
Sidgwick
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Re: Wishes...Hopes...& Dreams

Postby Sidgwick » Sun Feb 21, 2016 6:13 am

It would be poor if resolved off screen mind you, I'm with you on that.

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