Cooper's lost soul

[LostInTheMovies]

I know there was another thread dealing with this subject but I can't remember what it was called or how long ago it was. If anyone knows, and the admins feel this is better off under that topic, you have my permission to move it!

(this is adapted from a post I just shared on Tumblr)

Thinking about Bob’s plans for Cooper in the Black Lodge, I am reminded how many differing interpretations there are of precisely when Coop loses his soul to Bob, or splits into two, or however you want to frame it. I’ve heard people suggest that it’s as soon as the Little Man “tests” him with the coffee and it runs like motor oil, indicating that Bob is already fated to win (see this video).

In Wrapped in Plastic, John Thorne suggests that Cooper’s split arrives soon after he stumbles through the curtains with a stomach wound and sees himself and Annie lying on the floor at which point he is divided into good and bad Cooper (meaning the Cooper we see for the next several minutes, the one who willingly gives his soul to Windom and calmly walks after Bob takes it, is only half of Coop, the “good Coop” we see in FWWM, while the bad side is already lurking within the Red Room, ready to rise to the top).

Others conclude that Coop’s big mistake is offering to give his soul to Windom, since this represents an act of will (Martha Nochimson’s point) or a dangerously deluded self-sacrifice (as several fans have suggested) or even a sexist, anachronistically chivalric assumption that he must focus on rescuing Annie rather than respect her autonomous struggle within the Lodge and focus on his own (suggested by users on alt.tv.twin-peaks back in 1991).

There has been speculation that the turning point is Coop fleeing Bob in the end: that this is the dangerous fear that both Maj. Briggs and Hawk have spoken of, which opens him up to Bob’s power and awakens his own doppelganger. Finally, there is the assumption - which I myself have made in the past - that the most crucial moment is when Coop sees his doppelganger and turns to walk, and eventually run, away rather than face the shadow self/dweller on the threshold that Hawk prophesied in ep. 18.

I still think that’s a really important moment (much more than walking away from Bob, which he seems to do calmly and, it could be noted, at Bob’s own command) but I’d like to explore another facet of that turning point: maybe the shadow-self emerges in the first place because Cooper has taken vengeance of Windom. I’ve heard others suggest this as well (on an earlier Black Lodge thread here, I think) but I want to look at it in a larger context.

Of course that isn’t what we see: instead we see Bob “rescue” Cooper, presumably because Windom has broken the rules of the Lodge by demanding Coop’s soul and he must be punished. In this interpretation, Coop is merely a witness to this pivotal moment, not an actor in it. But is this really what happens?

Consider that, especially as the film later shows it, Bob never really works alone. He needs a human partner and as Fire Walk With Me reveals, Leland was much a collaborator than a victim. What if, in the moment of surrendering his soul, Cooper *manifested* Bob to take revenge on Windom. Compounding this transgression, he won’t even allow himself to take responsibility for this decision - displacing that responsibility onto the outside figure of Bob. So not only is he acting out against another person, he won’t even accept that it’s him doing the acting out. And Bob plays along, as he always does, exculpating Coop while giving him exactly what he wants and giving him permission to go.

Immediately after this dramatic turnaround, two things happen. First, the evil Coop emerges from one side of the room now that Coop has left on the other, as if his approving retreat from the scene of the crime sealed the deal and now his dark side is manifest. Second, in the hallway outside the room, Coop runs into Leland who cackles, disingenuously, “I did not kill anyone.” This implicitly couples Cooper’s own denial with Leland’s, and analogizes their relationship to Bob, especially since Leland is (literally, in a visual sense) placed as the central axis around which the two Coopers face each other for the first time.

The scene becomes even more resonant when paired with the end of Fire Walk With Me. I’ve explained my thoughts on this elsewhere, so I’ll tread lightly for the moment, but it’s my read that Laura is the one who manifests the angel to save Ronette in the train car. If this is the case, then we have an exact mirror image of the finale’s climax. In both cases a character (Cooper/Laura) manifests an otherworldly being (Bob/the angel) to either reward or punish someone that they regard as their shadow self (Windom/Ronette). In the finale, this leads to Cooper being chased by his doppelganger, who emerges into the outside world aligned with a victorious Bob. In the film, this leads to Laura receiving the ring, and emerging into a higher spiritual plane having defeated Bob.

There’s much more that can be said about this idea. There are some holes in it as well (one could argue that Annie makes a better parallel for Ronette, and Windom for Leland, which changes the whole reading of Cooper’s actions) but for the moment I find this concept pretty compelling.

[Shloogorgh]

That's a new spin on things that works quite well. Gives a real sense of purpose to the decision to have the doppelganger emerge at that moment.

I previously thought it was just BOB making his move on Cooper, but I like that this puts the onus on Cooper. What exactly transpired will still probably remain ambiguous in the new series- this is one area I doubt they will clarify.

[LostInTheMovies]

That's a new spin on things that works quite well. Gives a real sense of purpose to the decision to have the doppelganger emerge at that moment.

I previously thought it was just BOB making his move on Cooper, but I like that this puts the onus on Cooper. What exactly transpired will still probably remain ambiguous in the new series- this is one area I doubt they will clarify.

It's a good example of how Lynch shows us everything we need to know, but he doesn't explain any of it, leaving us to parse out the significance.

Personally, I prefer that type of mystery to the "open-ended-never-any-answers" type and I'm glad that Twin Peaks pushed him more in that direction than in the "we're never gonna tell you who killed Laura Palmer" direction, which is a non-answer to a very specific question.

Then again, maybe he's being hyperbolic when he says we never should have known the answer and simply means that as long as the show continued, the answer should have been open, with a revelation coming only at the end. He's always a bit hard to read on that.

[Rami Airola]

I don't necessarily think there ever was a split.

Maybe the other half is there the whole time, but it only emerges when the person wandering in the Lodge is "opened up" enough so that the person would be at his/her most vulnerable state. Only then would the confrontation be the most real, as the shadow-self would go against the deepest core of the person.

To me, the run at the end is not a run towards the exit. It's not a matter of who gets out first. I think they would've gone in that same loop as long as it takes for the doppelganger to catch Cooper or Cooper to get the courage to stop running and to face his doppelganger and succeed in that confrontation. As Cooper only decided to run away, he of course was so vulnerable and weak against what was chasing him that there was nothing else left to happen than the doppelganger to take over.

When he offered his soul to Windom, I don't think it ended up meaning anything. I'd say he was even strong enough to confront his past with Windom and Caroline. That willingness to exchange his soul to Annie's life might've even been a "plus" to Cooper in the eyes of the Lodge-spirits.

The biggest problem for Cooper was to confront himself. Maybe he was so very VERY afraid of what he could be. Maybe he always knew he had some strange and bad desires, but in real life he was always strong enough to keep them basically nonexistent. But when he saw whatever he knew was buried deep deep deep down in himself, he just became too afraid.

Maybe all that Caroline and Annie stuff all Windom harnessing some power of the Lodge. Maybe Windom thought he could make Cooper afraid or insane by playing with his mind, and the Lodge-spirits didn't have anything to do with it. And maybe the only thing the Lodge did was making Cooper confront his shadow-self.

The scene becomes even more resonant when paired with the end of Fire Walk With Me. I’ve explained my thoughts on this elsewhere, so I’ll tread lightly for the moment, but it’s my read that Laura is the one who manifests the angel to save Ronette in the train car. If this is the case, then we have an exact mirror image of the finale’s climax. In both cases a character (Cooper/Laura) manifests an otherworldly being (Bob/the angel) to either reward or punish someone that they regard as their shadow self (Windom/Ronette). In the finale, this leads to Cooper being chased by his doppelganger, who emerges into the outside world aligned with a victorious Bob. In the film, this leads to Laura receiving the ring, and emerging into a higher spiritual plane having defeated Bob.

I still can't get behind this "Laura manifesting the angel for Ronette" thing.

Even less I can get behind Coop manifesting Bob.


One thing that really bugs me with that interpretation is that these otherworldly beings become "slaves" to people. It lessens the control and power of those beings. There is a difference between being summoned and appearing because something happens. For example, it's much more interesting to see Bob appearing to Josies death scene because it's what he wants to do, than Bob appearing there because someone would "lure" him in with the "smell" of death and fear. The same way it's much more interesting for Ronette's angel to appear when there has been an action that "pleases" the angel and what the angel thinks is something that is needed to do for her to have a justifiable appearance, instead of Laura in some way "summoning" the angel. It's always much more interesting to have people interacting with power way beyond their abilities and comprehension than let the people be the ones who know (consciously or subconsiously) how to make them appear.

Same goes to Sarah with the White Horse. Sarah manifesting it because of her abilities is much less interesting and meaningful thing than Sarah, being sensitive to these things, being able to witness an appearance of a thing totally out of her control.

[They-Shot-Waldo!]

I've always been of the opinion Earle never had any major influence over events in the Lodge in the finale - yes, I am aware of the quick flash cut of his face when doppelgänger Laura screams - Earle was being manipulated by Bob to ultimately bring Cooper there and shatter Cooper's mind to make him more susceptible to Bob's influence. It could well have been the case Earle was allowed influence events in that realm until Bob stepped in, ("He can't have your soul."). It would be very true to Lynch's own opinion of Windom Earle as a concept and character, i.e. not much.

I always wondered would the show have delved into material in the spin-off book, Autobiography of Dale Cooper, by Scott Frost which strongly implies Bob was involved in Cooper mother's death and tried to influence his dreams at a young age. It's always been my opinion Bob could perhaps have briefly possessed Earle to kill Caroline by way of another means to get Cooper.

I completely agree with LostInTheMovies take on Leland in terms of FWWM with making Bob's influence over Leland more ambiguous, and I've a strong feeling this will come into play in the new season.

[LostInTheMovies]

I don't necessarily think there ever was a split.

Maybe the other half is there the whole time, but it only emerges when the person wandering in the Lodge is "opened up" enough so that the person would be at his/her most vulnerable state. Only then would the confrontation be the most real, as the shadow-self would go against the deepest core of the person.

To me, the run at the end is not a run towards the exit. It's not a matter of who gets out first. I think they would've gone in that same loop as long as it takes for the doppelganger to catch Cooper or Cooper to get the courage to stop running and to face his doppelganger and succeed in that confrontation. As Cooper only decided to run away, he of course was so vulnerable and weak against what was chasing him that there was nothing else left to happen than the doppelganger to take over.

When he offered his soul to Windom, I don't think it ended up meaning anything. I'd say he was even strong enough to confront his past with Windom and Caroline. That willingness to exchange his soul to Annie's life might've even been a "plus" to Cooper in the eyes of the Lodge-spirits.

The biggest problem for Cooper was to confront himself. Maybe he was so very VERY afraid of what he could be. Maybe he always knew he had some strange and bad desires, but in real life he was always strong enough to keep them basically nonexistent. But when he saw whatever he knew was buried deep deep deep down in himself, he just became too afraid.

Maybe all that Caroline and Annie stuff all Windom harnessing some power of the Lodge. Maybe Windom thought he could make Cooper afraid or insane by playing with his mind, and the Lodge-spirits didn't have anything to do with it. And maybe the only thing the Lodge did was making Cooper confront his shadow-self.

These are all great points. The above idea is put forward as conjecture, something to chew on before spitting it out (or digesting). It just occurred to me today and I'm not sure yet whether I'd embrace it. Where we are definitely in agreement is the prime importance of Coop's inability to face his shadow. More than anything else, I think his decision to run away (and then to keep running away) is where evil Coop and/or Bob wins.

One thing that really bugs me with that interpretation is that these otherworldly beings become "slaves" to people. It lessens the control and power of those beings. There is a difference between being summoned and appearing because something happens. For example, it's much more interesting to see Bob appearing to Josies death scene because it's what he wants to do, than Bob appearing there because someone would "lure" him in with the "smell" of death and fear. The same way it's much more interesting for Ronette's angel to appear when there has been an action that "pleases" the angel and what the angel thinks is something that is needed to do for her to have a justifiable appearance, instead of Laura in some way "summoning" the angel. It's always much more interesting to have people interacting with power way beyond their abilities and comprehension than let the people be the ones who know (consciously or subconsiously) how to make them appear.

We may not disagree here as much as you think. In fact this is actually more in line with what I'm trying to say than my own use of the word "summoning" (for brevity's sake). Especially because I think the process is deeply sub/unconscious on the part of (maybe) Cooper and Laura. I don't think the angels are slaves (or mere projections) of the human characters, and I CERTAINLY don't think Bob is (that was Windom's view, and boy was he wrong). But I do think the human characters need to create an opening for them in which they can appear. The relationship between the human and spirit world is essentially a partnership rather than one party or the other having complete control. As the Little Man says, "intercourse between two worlds."

And I think what "pleases" the angel is less Ronette's self-hating prayer than Laura's compassionate reaction to her friend's distress (evident in the close-up just before the angel appears). I wouldn't venture to say that's what Lynch intended (although it may have been); I'd rather say that, within the ambiguous situation he has depicted, this is the interpretation which feels most consistent with the previous drama as well as the larger ethos exhibited across Lynch's work.

[MasterMastermind]

I've always felt Cooper's failing was in refusing to confront his doppelganger, which Hawk foreshadowed earlier in the season. I didn't know there were so many other interpretations! I don't think I agree with the idea of Cooper summoning Bob, the dialogue in the scene seems to point away from that, but I do agree re: Laura's angel, and that she succeeded in being able to face the darkness within herself. I do believe in some ways her experience in the train car mirrors Cooper's in the Lodge, though.

[N. Needleman]

Here's a question I've never quite asked, and don't know where to put, relating slightly back to the current discussion: What did BOB plan to do in that train car, if he truly wanted to take Laura for a host, and if killing Laura only happened once she put on the ring? Was he going to possess her and have her kill Ronette?

[MasterMastermind]

That's a good question. I figure Bob/Leland didn't expect to find Ronette there, but he didn't leave her like he did Jacques, so I think it's a good assumption he was going to use Laura to do his thing.

[LostInTheMovies]

Here's a question I've never quite asked, and don't know where to put, relating slightly back to the current discussion: What did BOB plan to do in that train car, if he truly wanted to take Laura for a host, and if killing Laura only happened once she put on the ring? Was he going to possess her and have her kill Ronette?

Great question! I was wondering about this recently and came to a similar conclusion. Of course this would also make the Laura-angel moment even more profound inasmuch as it would be the exact opposite of what Bob had hoped for.

[TwinPeaksFanatic]

Great topic! I am very interested to see how the new episodes will address this issue.

Personally, I think Cooper's biggest undoing was not facing his doppelganger with courage in the Black Lodge.

After reading the My Life, My Tapes book, I was left with the impression that Bob (or like spirits) wanted Cooper from the time he was an adolescent. It appeared there might have been a few times in Cooper's life that Bob might have tried to get his soul and failed. Cooper references an incident in college where he felt he saw the face of evil. It also appeared in the book that Windom was likely being used in Bob's game to get Cooper all along.

Not sure if the mythology from the books will definitely factor in the new episodes, but it was very interesting.

Either way, I think Bob was always in control of everything.

[Mordeen]

Here's a question I've never quite asked, and don't know where to put, relating slightly back to the current discussion: What did BOB plan to do in that train car, if he truly wanted to take Laura for a host, and if killing Laura only happened once she put on the ring? Was he going to possess her and have her kill Ronette?

To me it seemed that Bob was grooming Laura to be a long-term host, like Leland was as a child. If you consider Leland less a victim and more a willing host, then perhaps Bob started using the serial killer method (letters under the fingernails, wrapped in plastic) as a means of setting up Leland to take the fall after capturing Laura. Laura gets possessed and kills Ronette. Leland forgets everything and has the DNA etc. all over him to implicate him, and Laura/Bob walks away, seen as the lucky victim and above suspicion. However, Laura takes the ring (still not sure how the ring represents a protection from Bob's possession yet), so Bob forces Leland to kill her ("Don't make me do this!"), and sticks around in Leland until he can get a new host.

Cooper shows up, and throws a wrench into the plan. His intuitive nature and sensitivity to the spiritual/supernatural attract both benevolent and malevolent spirits. Bob's competitors/enemies reach out to Cooper to aid him against Bob, while Bob reaches out to others (didn't Earle escape from the booby hatch right after Laura was killed?) to lure Cooper into the challenge of the Lodges.

When the challenge of the lodge is undertaken, it's clearly fear that takes Cooper out of the Waiting Room and into the Black Lodge. He is stoic and intrigued as the different entities appear to him in the furnished areas. He's still in the waiting room. When he reaches the first empty room (symbolic of his clear and emotionless state, like meditating), the first challenge is presented to him, and he fails. Laura's doppelganger rushes at him and shows him the face of the one person he truly fears, the man he considers his intellectual superior and nemesis: Windom Earle. He is startled and runs away, rather than stare it down and force the fear away. He's in the Lodge from that moment on. Fear opened the gateway and he stepped through. In fact, after running away from that room, the next room he enters he does so with a mortal wound, symbolic of his defeat by Bob. Bob uses Earle to trap Cooper, because Windom Earle has no power there. Bob takes Earle's soul, and I think that's how he's able to make a doppelganger of Cooper that can physically leave the Lodge. All of the other doppelgangers we see there are of Lodge spirits, or people who died there. Cooper's alive and trapped there, so Bob needs essence to manifest outside of the Lodge. Earle's soul provides that essence. Cooper's doppelganger appears, and at this point Cooper is so consumed with fear that there's no escape for him. Cooper ran from his dark self to try to escape his fears, but instead took his fears with him to the gateway, opening it back up and allowing them to escape. Evil Cooper exits the Lodge, and takes Annie with it, leaving Cooper no love to rescue him from the Lodge. Lost forever. . .

Or until someone can bring him an Angel.

-Mordeen

[N. Needleman]

It begs the question, though, if BOB ever leaves a host without completely destroying it. I don't know that I believe that. I don't think most people who have Lodge spirits in them tend to just walk away and pick up their lives. Gerard has lived with MIKE for years.

Personally, I can't see BOB giving up Leland for Laura so much as having Laura, and keeping Leland too somehow. He had been with Leland for the better part of Leland's lifetime.

[Shloogorgh]

If you consider Leland less a victim and more a willing host, then perhaps Bob started using the serial killer method (letters under the fingernails, wrapped in plastic) as a means of setting up Leland to take the fall after capturing Laura. Laura gets possessed and kills Ronette. Leland forgets everything and has the DNA etc. all over him to implicate him, and Laura/Bob walks away, seen as the lucky victim and above suspicion. However, Laura takes the ring (still not sure how the ring represents a protection from Bob's possession yet), so Bob forces Leland to kill her ("Don't make me do this!"), and sticks around in Leland until he can get a new host.

Love this idea. The ring would protect from BOB's possession because the wearer is the property of MIKE/The Arm ("With this ring, I thee wed"). Laura had figured out the connection between Leland and BOB, and since BOB no longer could possess Laura, he had to kill her to buy time. He probably would've killed Ronette too, but the angels probably exuded just enough influence that she didn't seem like a threat.

It begs the question, though, if BOB ever leaves a host without completely destroying it. I don't know that I believe that. I don't think most people who have Lodge spirits in them tend to just walk away and pick up their lives. Gerard has lived with MIKE for years.

Personally, I can't see BOB giving up Leland for Laura so much as having Laura, and keeping Leland too somehow. He had been with Leland for the better part of Leland's lifetime.

I don't agree that he wouldn't abandon Leland, but let's say for the sake of argument that the lodge spirits can inhabit multiple hosts. He sets up Leland for the fall, and gets to harvest all his fears while he is incarcerated until he is executed- unless he manages to get a verdict of innocence based on insanity, in which case even more fear to harvest.

All of the other doppelgangers we see there are of Lodge spirits, or people who died there. Cooper's alive and trapped there, so Bob needs essence to manifest outside of the Lodge. Earle's soul provides that essence.

Even though I believe based on Hawk's speech that just entering the lodge is enough to bring forth your doppelganger, I love the idea of BOB forging Cooper's doppelganger out of Windom's soul.

[N. Needleman]

I don't agree that he wouldn't abandon Leland, but let's say for the sake of argument that the lodge spirits can inhabit multiple hosts. He sets up Leland for the fall, and gets to harvest all his fears while he is incarcerated until he is executed- unless he manages to get a verdict of innocence based on insanity, in which case even more fear to harvest.

You're assuming he allows Leland (or anyone) to be fingered for the crime, but I don't know if I see that. What I mean is, if someone died in that train car and BOB gets Laura as a new host, I have a hard time believing Leland would then go back to a normal life none the wiser.

I also don't think anything he did to Teresa or Laura or Maddy was part of an elaborate frame-up scheme. That's too Agatha Christie. BOB kills and put the letters under their fingers to name himself as part of something very dark, strange and personal.