FWWM and TP: Disparities and Explanations?

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Valaquen
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FWWM and TP: Disparities and Explanations?

Postby Valaquen » Mon Nov 09, 2015 5:31 am

There are differences between the film and TV show that are, for some, quite egregious and distracting, and there are others that are less noticeable but remain interesting nonetheless.

Some differences between the two are ones that we would naturally chalk up to the passage of time, i.e., haircuts, such as Mike’s, who grows a mullet between his brief appearance in FWWM and the Pilot (chronologically, a difference of seven days), much like Audrey Horne’s folic do-over between the Pilot and episode 1 of the series proper (chronologically - overnight!) I thought it would be interesting to list all the disparities and apparent contradictions and perhaps provide either an explanation that works or we come to the realisation that mistakes, simply put, are made. Still, it would be fun to categorise and discuss them.

Here are two that pop into my mind:

I: Annie’s dress: When Annie enters and leaves the Lodge in the season 2 finale, she is wearing a black dress. When we cut to her arriving at the hospital in FWWM’s Missing Pieces, her clothing has changed – she is wearing what seems to be Caroline Earle’s chintzy outfit as seen briefly in the finale’s Black Lodge. Here is Caroline's doppelganger wearing the dress:

Image

'Annie'

Image

Annie upon leaving the Lodge and being found by Truman:

Image

And yet, here's Annie in FWWM, being wheeled into hospital:

Image

Explanation? Is Lynch trying to hint that Annie also did not leave the Lodge, at least in whole? It may be serendipitous, but Annie's bloodsplatter in FWWM more closely aligns with that of the Caroline/Annie doppelganger. Still, neither the show nor the film allude to Cooper having any Earthly company within the Lodge: he seems trapped and alone, as the film shows, until we see him with Laura and the angel at the end.

II: MIKE’S knowledge of BOB’s host: Pretty self-explanatory problem, this one. In FWWM Mike conducts a séance (seen in the Missing Pieces) and tracks down Leland and Laura, where he tries to tell Laura that her father is Bob’s host. He also appears at the scene of her murder and within the Lodge at the end, when Bob enters, leaves Leland’s body, and extracts the garmonbozia. Throughout the first half of season 2, Cooper enlists Mike to find Bob’s host, and it seems Mike has no idea where Bob is.

Explanation? As I recall, in the show Philip Gerard suppressed Mike with the use of pharmaceuticals. This might have disorientated Mike; we see that he becomes weaker as Gerard’s body dehydrates (according to Dr. Hayward) at the Great Northern Hotel in season 2. Perhaps the drugs have long lasting effects on either Mike or the connection to him (if Philip and the drugs are elaborated upon within the show, jig my memory!)

III: Tremond or Chalfont? The old lady and her grandson are known as Tremond and then Chalfont in TP and FWWM respectively.

Explanation?: This one is quite simple: these particular beings take their names from wherever they happen to manifest: in TP, Donna Hayward finds them at a Mrs. Tremond’s apartment; later, it is revealed that the real Mrs Tremond is a different woman altogether with no relation to the people Donna met. Apparently the Lodge entities simply assumed her name. In FWWM, the two have been staying at the trailer park (to keep close to the ‘6’ pylon, or Teresa? Maybe both) under the name Chalfont – a name that is revealed to have belonged to the previous occupant of the lot. Again, these two mysterious beings simply assumed the name of an occupant, previous or otherwise (maybe these Lodge beings are not very creative when coming up with names - I doubt Mike and Bob's identities are truly 'Mike' and 'Bob', Bob itself seemingly being derived from 'Robertson', an alleged neighbour of a young Leland Palmer.)

There are, no doubt, far more, but it would be fun to see what other members have noticed and reconciled (or not!) with the series and mythology at large.
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Re: FWWM and TP: Disparities and Explanations?

Postby the haystack » Mon Nov 09, 2015 6:18 pm

Thanks, OP, for giving me a chance to get something out that's been under my skin for a long time...

The pictures in Laura's room. (pictures, dreams, theories, film, TV)

At first, on Laura's wall hangs a painting which shows an angel hovering over children seated at a table. Some time later, the angel has left the painting. Finally, the morning after Laura's killing, the entire picture is gone from her room. Of course, this occurs in the interval between the pilot and FWWM, chronologically. Although it's most likely that there's a film chronology explanation for this, I'd prefer to speculate that there's layer of meaning behind this which is not shared.

The vanishing angel is easier to contemplate for some, as it is a deliberate feature designed by the filmmaker. Rather than focus on its specific interpretation, I'll just note that this point in the film, FWWM, has always represented a turning point in the story, for me. It's the point at which Laura may have decided in her mind to lose hope, or to let death come, or that she sees no option for salvation. Others will have more and possibly better ways to define this scene, but it stands as one of the heartbreaking moments in the film that actually affected me emotionally. Laura, conceding the fire about which the Log Lady would warn her, was now completely alone.

The next stage is harder to reconcile. Considering that Laura is delivered into the care of her own real angel at the conclusion of FWWM, I might expect that the picture is found on her wall by the detectives, with the angel reinstated (or not). Or, maybe the picture is found at some other key point in the series, in another location, under another owner's possession (like Maddy, maybe). But it is indeed, gone. And this leaves things open to a variety of explanations...uh, none of which occurs to me. I wish, though, that someone would explain the missing picture in a way that would let this conundrum stop bugging me as is has for over 20 years!

Finally, the picture given to Laura by the Tremonds, newly hung on Laura's wall, has also disappeared by the morning after her death (in the series pilot). I don't know the meaning of this either. It would be quick and easy to say that that picture never existed because the Tremonds who provided it do not exist temporally. But, I think the picture was real. The filmmakers went to some trouble to illustrate Laura leaving the painting out in the yard for some time, and then retrieving it and putting it in her room. Later, the viewer is taken on a tour inside and through the picture. That's where the line between dream and waking gets difficult for me. But the complete absence of the picture following Laura's death is clear and must have some elusive significance. The Tremonds, gone. Chalfonts, gone. Chester Desmond, gone. The picture...you get the picture.

Disclaimer: omissions, errors may exist in this post due to the way my mind hurts when I start to explore this subject. Lynch can make you question your own memories!
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Re: FWWM and TP: Disparities and Explanations?

Postby Valaquen » Tue Nov 10, 2015 6:23 am

james wrote:In terms of other disparities between FWWM and the series, have you noticed that the photos of Laura in her home and the school are swapped over from the ones in the show?

I did notice! But not at first. What was the explanation there, again? Were they not allowed to use the original?

the haystack wrote:Thanks, OP, for giving me a chance to get something out that's been under my skin for a long time...

The pictures in Laura's room. (pictures, dreams, theories, film, TV)--

Regarding the pictures in her room, I'm not sure I can explain the picture with the angel disappearing (other than they simply didn't think of it until the film) but the painting given to her by the Chalfonts is, I think, a kind of magical artefact in the same manner as the ring, which comes and goes apparently as it pleases!
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Re: FWWM and TP: Disparities and Explanations?

Postby Gabriel » Tue Nov 10, 2015 6:59 am

As a general thing, for me, I view (yes this might sound weird) FWWM as a prequel that happens chronologically after the series.

Essentially, I see My Life, My Tapes, The Secret Diary of Laura Palmer and Twin Peaks: The Network TV Series as the 'original' continuity.

Then, at the end of the second season (I nearly typed 'at the end of the series!') Cooper enters the Lodge and events shift as time doesn't seem to be linear there. As a consequence of Cooper's presence in the Lodge, Chester Desmond is sent to investigate the Teresa Banks murder instead of Cooper, Good Dale forces Philip Jefferies to be knocked sideways in time from the original continuity into the new timeline and he recognises Cooper as BOB, trying to warn Gordon Cole in advance.

Given the non-linear temporal nature of the Lodge it could be that Cooper's 'possession' is retroactive and the Dale throughout the film is 'Bad Dale'; possibly going right back to his childhood, making subtle changes to history. Annie, post-series, loops back in time and warns Laura about 'Good Dale's' incarceration in the Lodge, so possibly there's a note from Laura about the dream somewhere in her 'other diary' and we know that Good Dale is trying to influence Laura from within the Lodge.

So, when it comes to the new series, it could be that it's not the exact same history either as the events could keep being revised. Maybe Laura doesn't die in one of these realities and thus can be in the new show.

'It is happening again . . .'

As for the more mundane stuff, Cooper forgot to take his regular brand of hair gel to Twin Peaks, so he bought some from a vending machine at the Great Northern, meaning he has a slightly different hairstyle, Leo's fringe had come loose when he threatened Shelly in the pilot, Audrey got hair extensions the evening of the pilot and um.... Mike drinks a lot of protein because he's a sportsman. ;)
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Re: FWWM and TP: Disparities and Explanations?

Postby Shazbot » Tue Nov 10, 2015 8:10 am

I've always felt kind of like that, too. Like, the timeline gets disrupted as soon as Coop enters the Lodge in the finale. Things are kind of off with Twin Peaks after that. Bobby and Shelly repeating the joke from the Pilot, Major Briggs being happy and fine, etc. This extends to FWWM. Time has been affected, forwards and backwards, becausr now Coop has always been in the Lodge.
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Re: FWWM and TP: Disparities and Explanations?

Postby Valaquen » Tue Nov 10, 2015 9:02 am

Shazbot wrote:I've always felt kind of like that, too. Like, the timeline gets disrupted as soon as Coop enters the Lodge in the finale. Things are kind of off with Twin Peaks after that. Bobby and Shelly repeating the joke from the Pilot, Major Briggs being happy and fine, etc. This extends to FWWM. Time has been affected, forwards and backwards, becausr now Coop has always been in the Lodge.


I thnk that's more to do with the circularity of time; "It is happening again" and will always be destined to happen again and again. There's a lot in TP to be made of cycles and circular objects. I think the Lodge exists independently of time, but doesn't affect timelines, the past or present. Maybe we'll find out.
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Re: FWWM and TP: Disparities and Explanations?

Postby Gabriel » Tue Nov 10, 2015 9:25 am

Valaquen wrote:
I thnk that's more to do with the circularity of time; "It is happening again" and will always be destined to happen again and again. There's a lot in TP to be made of cycles and circular objects. I think the Lodge exists independently of time, but doesn't affect timelines, the past or present. Maybe we'll find out.


Then again, we see 'Good Coop' in the Lodge, post-season two, having the 'I am the arm' conversation, following which Coop looks at the camera and says 'Don't take the ring, Laura!' That's interfering with the timeline if ever I've seen it! ;)
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Re: FWWM and TP: Disparities and Explanations?

Postby Valaquen » Tue Nov 10, 2015 11:35 am

Gabriel wrote:
Valaquen wrote:
I thnk that's more to do with the circularity of time; "It is happening again" and will always be destined to happen again and again. There's a lot in TP to be made of cycles and circular objects. I think the Lodge exists independently of time, but doesn't affect timelines, the past or present. Maybe we'll find out.


Then again, we see 'Good Coop' in the Lodge, post-season two, having the 'I am the arm' conversation, following which Coop looks at the camera and says 'Don't take the ring, Laura!' That's interfering with the timeline if ever I've seen it! ;)


We also have Laura and Cooper sharing an experience in the Lodge (the Red Room dream), yet Laura experiences this before her death and Cooper only after he arrives in Twin Peaks. As I said, the Lodge definitely exists outside of time, and it can connect people across geographical and chronological spans, but as for changing time in our world... I'm not ready to concede that yet. Not until we see that people can affect timelines and alter histories, whch I think is beyond even the remit of the Lodge inhabitants themselves.
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Re: FWWM and TP: Disparities and Explanations?

Postby Shloogorgh » Tue Nov 10, 2015 1:14 pm

Gabriel wrote:
Valaquen wrote:
I thnk that's more to do with the circularity of time; "It is happening again" and will always be destined to happen again and again. There's a lot in TP to be made of cycles and circular objects. I think the Lodge exists independently of time, but doesn't affect timelines, the past or present. Maybe we'll find out.


Then again, we see 'Good Coop' in the Lodge, post-season two, having the 'I am the arm' conversation, following which Coop looks at the camera and says 'Don't take the ring, Laura!' That's interfering with the timeline if ever I've seen it! ;)


But that didn't change the timeline because there was never a timeline in which that didn't happen. It's not truly altering the past if it's how each individual involved experienced each event in the first place

If we see that Coop's actions have changed events we saw transpire then I'll concede (continuity errors notwithstanding) but for now in my mind there is only one time line and a lodge that exists outside of time.
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Re: FWWM and TP: Disparities and Explanations?

Postby Gabriel » Tue Nov 10, 2015 1:52 pm

For me, from the opening frames of FWWM, the movie world of Twin Peaks felt completely different from that of the TV one. It's like a Venn diagram: different worlds that cross over at certain points. But the 'reality' of TP always had a somewhat stretchy quality that implied it could handle all sorts of contradictions and circular events. As such I'm happy to contemplate a stretchy world where warm, friendly Dale Cooper (DC) investigated the Teresa Banks murder and so did his colder, meaner mirror image, Chester Desmond (CD).
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Re: FWWM and TP: Disparities and Explanations?

Postby LostInTheMovies » Tue Nov 10, 2015 1:57 pm

Gabriel wrote:
Valaquen wrote:
I thnk that's more to do with the circularity of time; "It is happening again" and will always be destined to happen again and again. There's a lot in TP to be made of cycles and circular objects. I think the Lodge exists independently of time, but doesn't affect timelines, the past or present. Maybe we'll find out.


Then again, we see 'Good Coop' in the Lodge, post-season two, having the 'I am the arm' conversation, following which Coop looks at the camera and says 'Don't take the ring, Laura!' That's interfering with the timeline if ever I've seen it! ;)


But don't we assume, Shining-style, that Cooper "has always been" in Laura's dream? Or to put it another way, aren't we dealing more with a Terminator sense of time travel than a Back to the Future one?

Then again if we do end up seeing alternate realities I suppose it would lean more toward the latter. Not that I think Lynch cares one whit about the science!
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Re: FWWM and TP: Disparities and Explanations?

Postby squealy » Tue Nov 10, 2015 3:58 pm

Isn't there a shot in FWWM where Laura throws the Tremond picture in the garbage, or at least takes it off the wall and turns it over? Am I imagining that?
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Re: FWWM and TP: Disparities and Explanations?

Postby Gabriel » Tue Nov 10, 2015 5:45 pm

I always took the opening destruction of a TV set in FWWM as a literal move of TP away from television, so entirely accepted that a movie would be a different entity, complete with contradictions to the TV version. I wonder whether the new show will open with the destruction of a cinema screen or will show someone setting up a new LED 4K TV. ;)

Like I say, I accept that a different medium can, by its nature, lead to changes. So in 'TV world' Donna looks like Lara Flynn Boyle and always did; in 'Movie world' she looks like Moira Kelly and is, frankly, a completely different character. Indeed, I can't see movie Donna ever turning into 'season two' Donna. It was abrupt enough with LFB, but the Moira Kelly incarnation would have looked ridiculous.

I look at Twin Peaks as a large jigsaw; from a distance, it looks like it pretty much hangs together. Close up, you can see the gaps where pieces don't quite fit, but that doesn't matter. In the end, the whole still looks great.
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Re: FWWM and TP: Disparities and Explanations?

Postby james » Wed Nov 11, 2015 9:14 am

squealy wrote:Isn't there a shot in FWWM where Laura throws the Tremond picture in the garbage, or at least takes it off the wall and turns it over? Am I imagining that?


Laura takes the picture of the doorway down from her wall in the morning. It's all clear that FWWM was shot after the pilot, this was a new idea they introduced so its not going to be referred to when Hawk and the police search her room.

Valaquen - regarding the switch-over of the Laura photos, swapping the one at home with the one at the school - this has clearly been done deliberately. I'm not sure what the motivation for it was in fact. They're the exact same photos as before, so swapping them just turns things on their head to how we expect - things have radically shifted on their axis. Maybe that's how Lynch saw FWWM somehow?

I am not so sure that the film feels as radically different to the show as all that - it never really did for me, anyway. It's quite difficult for me to just say FWWM is Lynch's best film (as I often have though!) because it has such differing passages, from the prologue to Laura's story and so on. Now of course we also have the Missing Pieces.

Regarding the altered Bang Bang bar sign, that must be deliberate and was either Lynch just playing tricks or creating an uncanny sense that 'something is different'....? I wonder.
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Re: FWWM and TP: Disparities and Explanations?

Postby Aqua » Sat Feb 20, 2016 4:25 pm

Gabriel wrote:

Given the non-linear temporal nature of the Lodge it could be that Cooper's 'possession' is retroactive and the Dale throughout the film is 'Bad Dale'; possibly going right back to his childhood, making subtle changes to history.

.... possibly there's a note from Laura about the dream somewhere in her 'other diary' and we know that Good Dale is trying to influence Laura from within the Lodge.

So, when it comes to the new series, it could be that it's not the exact same history either as the events could keep being revised. Maybe Laura doesn't die in one of those realities ...


An oldish thread - but touched upon general reconciliation between series and the film universe, which also seems relevant going forward into a continuation.

The above definitely is a possibility to an extent, given the potentially neverstopping (and ocassionally backward - cue Coop's bleeding in the lodge before being stabbed, and the general theme of lodge's spirits acting in a backward mode, i.e. back-and-forth cause and effect) circularity of life as explored by lynch esp post-tp. This then, apart from actual events being redefined or Coop having been bad coop throughout (i.e. we are presented with such a vision of first seasons after the new starts), could also mean that both these visions (good coop until ep 29 vs. Evil coop in the same) are untrue, or at least non-exact.

I.e. I may be personally feeling that they will mostly go with a defined line (-s )of events, at least for/during each particular period of narrative in the new season as well as potentially differently highlighting/changing - or rechanging several times, heck - certain events in the past as well as in the ongoing. But this would not exclude for example possibilities such as that coop was being possessed periodically in the past but was strong enough to fight/eradicate it (doing it completely from inside out, unlike leland - up to the point of thinking it is only his dreams when it came to him, not other external events) - say, prior entrances to the lodge as per his occurences with LMFAP in FWWM, the coming back to his usual self in TP. And only then being caught at the end of s2 due to weakness/fear, which presumably is the main version up to now - and the retroactive changes starting/explained from there (warning against the ring by his good side, if it was it, being an obv example).

Surely, with lynch's films with almost no exceptions being not what they seem at least at some level - there is also a different-side-of-the-spectrum possibility of this also being a red herring of sorts, e.g. the spirits have previously fooled him (and us) to believe he is pure. In this scenario, coop only sees his good side and blocks out everything else - thus effectively say being blind to his potential wrongdoings which he commits (there are several open-ended, albeit not conclusive allusions to the possibility of such in the Bio book).

I.e. his evil side could have effectively made him a self-blind sociopath for the entire life - again, unlike leland, who demonstrates another psychic fault and thereby different corrupting mechanisms, i.e. is at least a semi-self conscious incestuous sex maniac. And the end of s2 would thus mean that the lodge succeeds in easily showing him just how weak his good-faced defenses are - precisely because of the underlying strength of his evil side; no retroactive changes would be needed under this, only a clarification of past events.

The last possibility perhaps not being the line that they will be taking - firstly it seems to me because of the should-be-prevailing circular cause and effect topic, ir still seemed useful in at least analyzing the spectre of possibilities and understanding the more realistic ones. Obv, this does not include a distinct possibility of new mythologies being introduced and describing what REALLY happened or how it FINALLY happened in the end :); just a link back to the psychological perceptions of himself by cooper and his choices of actions faced with the interchanging effects in real life.

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