Jean Renault subplot in mid Season 2

[FrightNight]

Hi to all,
mostly just a regular reader/lurker, as this forum makes the long, almost indurable stretch 'till the arrival of the new season a little more bearable, so cheers, guys! I've posted my first comment during the "No Lynch No Peaks" crisis last spring, but nothing since (and the post got deleted along with a batch of other ones as the forum experienced some tehnical glitch). Anyhow, I consider myself one of the originial TP fans, since I first saw it at the tender but oh so impressionable age of 10-11 when it aired in my country (in Europe) back in '91. This upcoming season is one of my longtime dreams come true (to rival that of winning the lottery, for instance )

So, I thought it would be interesting to hear what you guys have to say about the Jean Renault story thread in the second third of the second season, ie. after the revelation of Laura's killer, as I feel this particular subplot doesn't get commented often, if ever. I for one think it's well handled and is overall interesting and suspenseful, as it's one of the key subplots to support the transition from Laura Palmer story (first major investigation of the show) to Windom Earle one (second major investigation) - it gives Cooper something to do, it introduces us to another of the iconic FBI agents (Dennis/Denise Bryson), Renault himself is, I feel, sufficiently intriguing and dangerous adversary and is delivered with real spark by the great Michael Parks (Canadian French accent and all), plus I really love the tension-heavy resolution at the Dead Dog Farm where Cooper gets to display his nobility and swiftness, so to speak. Anyhow, I feal that, all in all, the Renault subplot has real merit and doesn't get nearly the love it deserves (as doesn't the whole second season whose staunch defender I am - I think it's, with everything that's going on in it, hugely superior to the first season which was, at the end of the day, "just" a darkly humorous reworking of the soap format with extremely poignant murder investigation, granted, and Lynch's trademark idiosyncrasy; season two, however, took all of this to a whole new level). I find it one of the more serious story threads of the latter second season (together with Packard-Eckhardt standoff, Earle's chess "game" and, of course, the development of the Black/White Lodge mythology) - that ridiculous sublots from that period, like Little Nicky shenanigans, Nadine's superstrengths, Ben Horne going cuckoo, Lana Milford nonsense etc., get more attention is beyond me.

[N. Needleman]

I actually like a lot of the Jean Renault subplot - especially his final episode, and the speech he gives Cooper about how "a pretty girl dies, and you come here. Maybe the nightmare will die with you." I think Michael Parks is appropriately dangerous, and I like the whole Dead Dog Farm bit which seems so Lynch.

I do think too much of it was handled with a bit too much comedy with Ernie Niles, etc. - who works in smaller doses - and I don't think it's a plotline that could drive the show through an emergency rewrite where they had to jettison the Audrey romance. The Renault story would have had to be involved with something much deeper and darker to do that on its own. It wasn't enough to power the show forward.

Season 2 is still my favorite and I agree it does take the show to a whole new level, but I don't think Season 1 is "just" anything - the more I rewatch it after a long time and the older I get, everything about it is perfectly constructed and planned. Season 2 is wilder, crazier but also messier. I wouldn't have it any other way, but I don't think S2 is superior.

[FrightNight]

I agree with most of what you said. Yes, those Reanult's words directed at Cooper were definitely what stuck in my mind for years afterwards and I consider them contributing nicely to the haunted legacy of TP.

Ernie Niles was admittedly over the top (didn't care much for him); then again, so was Denise Bryson, the character that was introduced solely on the basis of his (future) contribution to (the resolution of) Renault storyline.

True, Renault arc didn't bear enough weight to serve as the main narrative thrust in the vacuum left by resolving of the Palmer saga - that would eventually become the Cooper-Earle duel and the mythology of the forest spirits (so to speak) and the Lodges (btw, I think the gradual, subtle combination of these two threads was carried off extremely well and the fact that Earle played such a pivotal importance in getting Cooper to the Lodge made up for a lot of the sillier aspects of his Moriarty-like character that make the hair of many a fan turn white ). However, in the few weeks it took for Earle to (finally) enter the scene after Leland Palmer's death and for supernatural stuff to get really cooking, I think Renault subplot functioned (over those breezy, frivolous few episodes between Leland's death and Earle's appearance) as one of the elements that showed TP in its grim, brooding and serious light; he was, after all, one of the show's more, in plastic terms, evil characters and the fact that he was so hung up on getting back at Cooper made him all the more fascinating - interesting that a lot of viewers/fans tend to simply just overlook him when debating the show. I love how he was set up as this ultimate badass that gave even someone like Hank Jennings a run for his money (Jennings, in turn, previously gave Leo Johnson a run for his money); another great and often overlooked character, btw, namely Hank. It's a real shame his storyline just kinda petered out in the latter stages of S 2 ...

O.k., maybe I chose rather clumsy words to describe S 1 - I know some fans would find it downright blasphemous, as S 1 seems to get all the love directed at the series. I'm just fed up by this opinion (that's become proverbial over the years) that S 2 was this complete mess that never should have happened if the show was to survive longer; yet those who think so should take into account that S 2 contains friggin' two thirds of the show, for Pete's sake - and I don't mean it simply in terms of minutage. Other than the fact that it taints much of my beloved S 2, if only through being constantly compared with it, I really don't have any issues with S 1 and find it, of course, an essential part of TP experience. I just want to stress the whole "phenomenal S 1 - disastrous S 2" issue amounts to, in my view, little more than an urban legend.

[Audrey Horne]

Here's how I feel about this... Of course season two is more interesting, it has the more interesting stuff, delving deeper, more wild ride. In theory. So much good stuff. Season One was so good but I was so anxious to get to season two where all the expert setups would have tremendous payoffs.

Of course the reveal of the murderer is going to be exciting, and it is. Of course, action is going to get more notice than setup. But scene for scene and episode for episode, season one is just expertly planned out. It's tight as a drum.

Michael Parks is excellent, and a wonderful and suitably creepy addition to the cast. And I loved him being introduced. But like so many of the plots it just gets sloppy. This is a different world from the pilot and season one where Jean would allow a waitress deliver a meal during their hostage takeover and then get distracted by her shapely gam. The storyline and payoffs are just nil to me... For example, wouldn't it be more satisfying if Audrey was involved in that plot to get some satisfaction to the demise of the man who drugged her with heroin?

Don't get me wrong, there's plenty of moments and scenes I love during the second season, and those first seven (kinda eight) episodes are almost as tight as the second season. It just gets too consistently messy. The first season I would watch and constantly be surprised, thinking wow I never thought of that and that is so right. The second season I would say, oh wow... I kinda wished they did X instead.

For the non Lynch episodes though, I love the sixth episode of the second season so so much. That is a tight, tight, excellent script and all the characters are operating to their full potential. And the One Eyed Jacks rescue had me cheering more than any episode in the entire series.

[Audrey Horne]

Oh, and welcome aboard!!

[FrightNight]

Like I said, I genuinely have no beef whatsoever with S 1 - I find it a tightly wound mystery that twists the conventions of soap opera to its own ends, introduces one of the most revolutionary leading characters in TV history and has marvelous fun with its newly hatched kookiness, bizarrities and idiosyncracies; it's just that I feel that when it comes to general TP-related discussions, it tends to get disproportionately emphasized as the contributor to TP legacy while S 2 is unjustly downplayed, even though about 80 % of beloved TP mythology stems from S 2, not S 1. I also think S 2 is, on the whole, more disturbing, as it delves heavily into Bob's doings plus the mythology behind them and light tones, spiked with warped humor, take a back seat; for instance - things such as coffee-, doughnuts- and cherry pie-references are still present in S 2, but merely as an illustrative background, not as focal points of many a scene like in S 1 (where they were more needed to establish this weird, Lynchian universe). That being said, in the second third of S 2, after the resolution of the Palmer tragedy, they layed it on pretty thick with humor and grotesque storylines, which were far too much in-your-face when compared with sublime tongue-in-cheekness of S 1 and I do think that (roughly episodes 18-21 - I use a slightly different numeration than most, mind you, as I consider the pilot /as it was presented on our national TV during the premiere airing/ as Episode no. 1 rather than a standalone entity; correspondingly, the series for me consists of 30, not 29 episodes) was the low point of the series. However, the first 9 episodes of S 2 (see the explanation of my numeration above) I find are THE BEST thing to come out of TP as of yet (I particularly adore episodes 10, 13, 15, 16 and 17, two of which were directed by Lynch), episodes 22-24 are the show finding its voice again and picking up speed and the final 6 episodes are a return to former glory. Yes, it can be argued that overall, the S 2 was a tonal mess (while S 1 is this neat, consistant little package), but on the whole, I think it holds up exceptionally well when you consider how many "cooks" (writers and directors) participated in its brewing and that it forms the bulk of this strange and wonderfull universe that is TP.

Now for some concrete things in regards to the theme of this thread: funny that you find Renault's response to the "waitress" that would cause his downfall as an example of storytelling "slopiness" - I find it exactly as a kind of thing that fits with the character's somewhat womanising personality and overconfindence; I also think this resolution displays TP's trademark penchant for doing things its own odd way.
I don't think the Dead Dog Farm climax would function any better if Audrey Horne would somehow figure into it; on the contrary, I would find her being dragged into the Renault arc again as somewhat cheezy, as her place in the arc was satisfactorily rounded off with Truman's & Cooper's rescue mission at One Eyed Jack's. Granted, I would maybe feel otherwise if they made something more out of her heroine "addiction" rather than completely dismissing it after briefly touching upon it - that I DO feel as one of S 2's grave missed opportunites.
Overall though, I'm not in the "Cooper-Audrey romance" camp as I think the tendence to party pretty male lead with pretty female lead (well, one of them) would be adhering to fan-servicing ways of the "old", pre-TP (or maybe "other" would be more appropriate term) television. In light of this, I think that the explanation for unrealization of the romance that was thought up by MacLachlan (no matter how much, if any, his off-screen relationship with LFB influenced it), ie. that it would be unlikely for an FBI man of his beliefs and ethics to sleep around with high-school girls, is just perfect and Cooper's eventual romance with Annie Blackburn much more logical in terms of his (and her) character. I realize I'm also in minority with this stand

And thanks for the welcome. As an avid reader of the forum in the last year (I don't knwo how I managed to miss it before, when I pestered my friends & relatives with my TP obsession in search of like-minded fans), I already feel quite at home

[Wonderful & Strange]

Jean Renault was a good villain who was ultimately handled poorly. Every time I watch his silly blunder of letting Denise Bryson pull her skirt up and how he never considers even for a moment this may be subterfuge, really undermines what was previously a formidable, because fairly intelligent, villain.

I think it would have been better to let him escape (or just arrest him), so he could come back to plague Cooper at some point.

I loved the idea of the three (or more?) Renault brothers all being at various levels of the crime world. I wouldn't mind a fourth or fifth brother to appear in S3 -- maybe Momma Renault was a very busy woman?

[FrightNight]

One man's trash is another man's treasure ... Hence, what you find a "silly blunder" I call a reasonably credible expression of Renault's womanizing, rather off-the-wall personal traits. I do, however, see him escape or put temporarily away so he could return at a later date to cause more trouble for Cooper; since I like this character so much, I was sorry he was dispatched so quickly, but they were probably in a hurry to get on with the main plot, which would be Windom Earle and the Lodges, at that point and saw no need to tuck Renault away for some future use (like they did when Audrey's One Eyed Jack's oddyssey was concluded). I wonder whose creation was Renault anyway, since it was already established at some point that he wasn't Lynch's (if I recall correctly) - Frost's? Peyton's? Somenone else's?

Yeah, I'm all for additional members of the Renault clan popping up in the future - bring those pesky Renault brothers on! And maybe even their mom, just don't make her into some "Momma Fratelli" (The Goonies) type Not to take anything away from Momma Fratelli or The Goonies (God forbid!), I just don't think TP needs more excessive comedy than what was piled on with Little Nicky etc. stuff.

[DeerMeadowRadio]

Love Jean Renault! Always wanted to watch a little closer to see if there is any kind of subtle reference to his existence (or lack of) in the first season when they are dealing with his brothers. My memory is that there is no reference either pointing to, or disproving, his existence.

Michael Parks is badass in everything I have seen him in. I totally agree that the Jean Renault storyline is a highlight in season two that people overlook when dissing its overall quality.

Also, people point to the change in the Audrey/Cooper storyline in season 2 as a reason for its perceived dip in quality, but I think the loss of the One-Eyed Jacks storyline also was a big blow. Maybe they should have kept that storyline going after Jean Renault's death with a new potential owners battling for control... maybe even tied in to the Andrew Packard/Thomas Eckhard storyline?

[FrightNight]

It's always a pleasure to meet fellow Renault appreciators Yes, I think you got it right - there was no reference of any kind of Jean Renault in S 1, but I think his introduction in early S 2 was done competently enough and tying him to the shady One Eyed Jack's prostitution and drug business was especially savory. I also love his strong French-Canadian accent as an amusing defining trait of his somewhat psychopathic persona. And who other is better suited to pull off psychopaths than Michael Parks, what with his creepy tranquility and dead stares (also a fan of the actor, especially love him in the all-too-brief prologue in From Dusk Till Dawn and in the now-obscure direct-to-video From Dusk Till Dawn 3, where he pratically carries the flick as the drunken real-life 19th/early 20th century writer Ambrose Bierce)!

I'm right with you about the unfortunateness of discarding One Eyed Jack's as the seriously spooky setting of crime and intrigue. Your idea about having various crime figures battling over the Renault legacy sounds sweet as hell! Yeah, meybe they should have it mix somehow with Packard-Eckhardt storyline, as it was another of the serious subplots of mid S 2 that I like - the two actors playing them (Dan O'Herlihy and especially David Warner - love the shot of blazing fireplace reflecting in his sunglasses!) are good plus their hold over poor Josie feels quite menacing (not that she doesn't deserve it). I don't know why it catches so much flak ... I guess I'm a sucker for serious mode of TP and I think these storylines figure into it adequately; that's why I'm even willing to cut the universally despised James-Evelyn Marsh doomed romance some slack - so go shoot me

Also never could understand why people couldn't get over the loss (and still can't, as a matter of fact) of hinted Cooper-Audrey love romance. Other than being unrealistic giving the high moral stature of Cooper's character like I commented earlier, I can't for the life of me see how this storyline could have possibly been the one to carry the main narrative of the post-Laura Palmer series. TP, in my view, wasn't conceived as a romance show or a show of will-they-won't-they (as Northern Exposure, for instance; apart from being much much more, of course, and I just love that show also!), and shouldn't have been made into one simply on the basis of drawing audiences in. I think it would have been a rather cheap trick, so to speak, and am glad the series went off in other, ultimately much more fruitful directions; I think Cooper and Audrey function much better as friends who share some powerful history (One Eyed Jack's rescue) and that's that. Don't have anything against some wistful memories, especially on Audrey's side, of what could have been, but I think the series would do well to leave this unrealized relationship in the past and rather bring back Annie as a much more crucial element in Cooper's life story. Or at least have her referenced if the story evolves in the way her physical presence is not needed (though I shudder at some of the associations this brings ...).

[TheArm]

I don't mind the Jean Renault storyline, personally, though I'm not sure that that storyline alone was quite strong enough on its own to take over after the Laura Palmer mystery (the Renault storyline sort of bridges the gap between the Laura & Earle storylines). My only big problem with it actually was Cooper shooting Renault at Dead Dog Farm, which seemed rash and out of character, given that Renault could have just as easily been apprehended at that point (right?). I'm not sure why it was necessary for Coop to KILL him; it always bumps me when I watch it, as it seems VERY un-Cooper-ish.

But Michael Parks is awesome, and I do like the monologue he gives @ Dead Dog Farm to Cooper, about how Cooper's arrival was changing the town for the worse, which I think is an interesting idea.

[FrightNight]

Hm, no, I don't think Renault could've been apprehended so easily at the point in question, ie. when Cooper got hold of the gun off Denise's thigh. So, with him already established as absolutely unscrupulous, cunning and therefore extremely dangerous person, I think it was wise of Cooper to decide not to take any chances and to shoot him with the intention of killing him - and judging from the gun Renault was in the process of pulling out of jacket even as he was letting out his last breath, it's likely Cooper would come to regret any other decision. Of course, that is just my take on it.
Other than that, I think the scene does well by showing us the unromantic, so to speak, side of Cooper's job which also includes killing people if situation calls for it. And moreover, it shows us Cooper is definitely up to these demands.