World of Blue - Archived Forum 2007-2022

Hopefully they won't ignore FWWM, since it's important for the new series.

Agent Earle wrote:I think you are underestimating the impact of, as you say, "the back half of S2". There's some seriously potent stuff there, easily rivaling anything that came in the well-loved S1. Overall, I think S2 is just as strong as S1, if not more so. And I wish Lynch, Frost and everyone associated with the "old" Twin Peaks would stop behaving like they're kinda ashamed of S2 whenever the subject's brought up. It is what it is, with all its faults and all its greats (the latter far outweigh the former, I should say) and, hey, look where it got us 25 years later

Yeah, I'm aware there are quite a number of people on this board who feel this way - I understand that better after seeing all the intelligent and thoughtful discussions in which they've articulated their views. But it still makes me shake my head in wonderment - there's no accounting for taste, as I always say. I've discussed my personal feelings about this ad nauseam over the past year or so on the board, so I'll just say for me the drop in quality and interest is akin to that a car takes going off the edge of the cliffs of Dover. I rewatched the whole series for the first time last year (I'd rewatched S1 and bits of S2 countless times over the years) and felt the same way.

I understand that you and others might not personally agree, and your opinion is as valid as anyone's, but the objective fact is that a *lot* of people react that way to S2. I mean, be honest… if you'd stumbled on the show now in the middle of the Little Nicky or Evelyn Marsh subplots, would you say to yourself, "Wow, this is really something I need to watch?"

mtwentz wrote:I was an original viewer in my early 20s and I cannot relate to anyone who bails early, because I remember that myself and all my friends working at the same muffin shop were obsessed with TP from beginning to end. It seems to me the people that bailed were casual viewers who just wanted to have the mystery of Laura Palmer solved.

That's an over broad claim. Maybe they simply felt the quality wasn't up to what had initially hooked them. I was an original viewer at 17 and 18, and, yeah, I watched every episode* - not because I was enjoying it much, but because I was obsessed - the characters and setting and atmosphere had hooked me so hard that I kept hanging on because even a little taste of what the show had previously given me in spades was enough to keep me hooked, coming back again and again hoping for better than I got. And honestly, it hurt - it was like a dysfunctional relationship where I couldn't walk away. Why couldn't a reasonable fan decide to do just that, as some others I knew did?

S2 didn't much improve recently when I rewatched it in its entirety - somewhere around General Ben, I almost gave up and jumped ahead to the final episode. It isn't because I "just wanted to have the mystery of Laura Palmer solved" - on the contrary, I thought, like many, that the mystery should have continued. It was because I was bored and annoyed, because it wasn't good.

Need I point out Lynch seems to agree with me on all this? Even some of the cast members have admitted they stopped watching partway through the season. Your opinion as a viewer is honestly just as valid as theirs - but the reverse is certainly also true.

By the way, I love how the muffin shop just pops up in the middle of your story - feels rather Twin Peaks-ish!

*[Actually… I remembered upon my S2 rematch that there WAS one episode I'd never seen - which was kind of amazing, given how important the show has been to my mental life and tastes. I went to a friend's birthday party and something went wrong with the VCR and it didn't record as I'd programmed it (see, Lynch was right! Saturday night didn't work because Twin Peaks people are party people!). Fortunately, it was in the deepest doldrums of the season, so although I was pissed, in the back of my mind, a little sad voice said to me, "You know, you probably didn't miss much," which made it just bearable. And it turns out that little voice was right - that stretch of the show blurs together for me so much that I'm still not 100% sure which episode it was, but I think it was the one with the Dead Dog Farm hostage scene.]

OK,Bob wrote:Right now their schedule calendar is only available through the end of February, but if they continue the 2 episodes a week (starting Sunday, Feb 5) after completing season one (on Feb 26) they could get through the second season, which would end May 14. This allows one more Sunday for FWWM before season 3 begins. Seems like a possibility....

Correction -that schedule would not leave a weekend for FWWM... Guess time will tell what their broadcast plans are for March through May.

Eater of Iguanas wrote: I understand that you and others might not personally agree, and your opinion is as valid as anyone's, but the objective fact is that a *lot* of people react that way to S2. I mean, be honest… if you'd stumbled on the show now in the middle of the Little Nicky or Evelyn Marsh subplots, would you say to yourself, "Wow, this is really something I need to watch?"

While I lapped up the entire series in the original run, on buying the Blu-ray, I found I struggled to pay attention through to the painful patch in season two. I'm going to give the whole lot another rewatch in the next few weeks, so I'll see how I handle it this time.

As I've always said about the Evelyn Marsh story, it feels like a PG-13 version of a Zalman King film of that era! That said, Andy's thought bubble of Nicky as the Devil is almost worth paying for the whole box set. Has there ever been a bigger 'What the <bleep>' moment?

Eater of Iguanas wrote: think it was the one with the Dead Dog Farm hostage scene.]

If I never see another hostage scene in a movie or TV show ever again, it'll be too soon!

The real problem wasn't the subplots- it was the Windom Earle chess game. It sounded good on paper+ in practice it was a flop. A show can survive a couple of unpopular subplots when the main plot is compelling.

I like the Windom Earle chess game

eyeboogers wrote:I like the Windom Earle chess game

It lacks any mystery or tension. Earle never nabs anyone we care about (though he stalks them) , so there's really nothing left except seeing him torture Leo, which gets old real quick.

Only when Earle throws aways the chess game and becomes the foil to lure Cooper into the Lodge does he become interesting IMHO.

mtwentz wrote:

eyeboogers wrote:I like the Windom Earle chess game

It lacks any mystery or tension. Earle never nabs anyone we care about (though he stalks them) , so there's really nothing left except seeing him torture Leo, which gets old real quick.

Only when Earle throws aways the chess game and becomes the foil to lure Cooper into the Lodge does he become interesting IMHO.

He nabs Mayor Briggs, although I must admit I don't remember if that was chess or outright cheating. I liked that aspect that Earle kept circling closer to characters we cared about. A nice sinking feeling that built suspense.

Hate the chess game (and Earle in general). Defenders of the storyline often point out that the whole "brilliant serial killer five steps ahead of the cops" thing was less of a cliche when this was written, which may well be true but if this were the most original thing ever I guess I'm just forced to conclude that corny themed murders were terrible from the very beginning. Ted Raimi in a papier-mâché chess piece, the fact that Earle can't seem to decide whether he's doing the chess thing or the card game thing, the fact that it goes absolutely nowhere and is just abandoned never to be mentioned again... ugh.

ETA I still love s2, and the Earle plot is basically the only thing I strongly dislike in the show (because as mtwentz says, its goofiness is supposed to be the main dramatic motor in this part of the series & I'm like, THIS clown brings down cooper?)

I'm trying to think of other plotlines in TV shows with such big build-ups that were thrown away so unceremoniously like the chess one. 2nd half of season 2 was such a mess.

I thought Dead Dog Farm was great! I also thought Windom Earle was a potential goldmine, on paper, but his plotline is most definitely piss poor execution.

Are Windom Earle's appearances in the Dale Cooper biography any good?

I loved all of the series on first viewing at age 14 or so. I reloved it all on a rewatch.

My most recent rewatch in December revealed that that bloody synth flute that they use for Windom Earle is naff as hell!

However, when I like a show, I more or less turn off any critical thinking, and let them take me where they want to go. I understand that a lot of fans are more active, and engage with the material critically, but my completist disease means I have to watch all of the episodes under pain of death anyway, so I may as well enjoy them.

Earle was a squandered opportunity. I think it could have worked out better if Lynch directed the first couple episodes that Earle appears in. That way, he'd have been able to set a good precedent for how Welsh should be directed (his acting in Episode 29 is notably improved) i.e. less is more !

I agree with the idea that the subplots of S2 could have been more interesting if the core narrative was stronger.