The visual aesthetic of the new Twin Peaks

Discussion of Twin Peaks and Fire Walk With Me

Moderators: Annie, BookhouseBoyBob, Ross, Jerry Horne, Brad D

Forum rules
Welcome to the forum. We know our members are passionate about their love for all things Twin Peaks. You wouldn't be here if that wasn't the case. Despite having differing viewpoints it is a policy that we all treat each other with mutual respect.

Posting abusive, obscene, vulgar, slanderous, hateful, threatening, sexually-orientated, or any material that may violate any laws be it of your country or the country where this forum is hosted will get you permanently banned.

Posting of spoilers are allowed as long as you indicate (Spoilers) in the topic name and use the Spoiler Tag.
enumbs
Posts: 27
Joined: Thu Sep 24, 2015 4:44 pm

The visual aesthetic of the new Twin Peaks

Postby enumbs » Thu May 26, 2016 6:36 am

Hi everyone, I thought it might be interesting to start a thread for discussing the look of the new series. One of the biggest reasons I'm anticipating a trailer so anxiously is to finally get a glimpse of the new season's style of cinematography etc, as I am sure it will be very different from previous iterations of Twin Peaks. For one thing, it's going to be shot on digital, using the ARRI AMIRA. Now I for one am extremely curious about the way in which Lynch will adapt to higher grade digital cameras - will he entirely abandon the murkiness of Inland Empire and essentially go for a "film" look? Or will he aspire towards an entirely different visual palette?

There's definitely more to consider than just film vs digital. The Pilot, the series and the film all have a very different feel, and I'm curious whether we'll be getting the warm filters of the show or the far starker look of FWWM. Also interesting is the fact that Lynch is working with Peter Deming, whose cinematography for Lost Highway and Mulholland Drive is rightfully praised. I confess to feeling a little bit alienated by the sometimes rough and ready style of Inland Empire, so was relieved to discover the director would not be acting as his own cinematographer this time. That said, Deming's only previous venture with digital was on Oz the Great and Powerful, which was far from his best work. Obviously that film was extremely reliant on green-screen however, so his work on Peaks will hopefully be very different.

Ultimately, this is all fairly fruitless speculation, and until we see some footage we'll have no idea what we're in store for. But I do hope that Lynch manages to create something with the aesthetic richness of his best work. When discussing the film/digital debate last year, he discussed the benefits of digital mainly in terms of it ease and practicality, while also referring to a kind of inherent soullessness that is hard to get around (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bL8pN9Cgu2k#t=43m30s). Very excited to see the ways in which Lynch will attempt to get around this issue and - to use his words - "pump the soul into it" come 2017. :)
User avatar
Gabriel
Posts: 746
Joined: Thu May 03, 2007 12:53 pm

Re: The visual aesthetic of the new Twin Peaks

Postby Gabriel » Thu May 26, 2016 8:18 am

It won't necessarily look all that different. Digital material can be made look like pretty much what ever you want it to. Yes, the look could really pushed to an extreme if they wanted that, but it could also look practically indistinguishable from either the series or the movie.

I'm interested to see how wide the screen will be. Will it be 16:9 or 2.4:1? TV shows being made in a cinematic aspect isn't unprecedented: the Clone Wars series is one example...
User avatar
Cerulean
Posts: 28
Joined: Thu May 19, 2016 5:11 pm

Re: The visual aesthetic of the new Twin Peaks

Postby Cerulean » Thu May 26, 2016 8:24 am

The fact he's shooting on digital doesn't bother me too much, considering how far it's come since his Internet/DV phase and Inland Empire. I think IE was a major experiment for him in many ways — visual aesthetics, lighting, cintemography, etc. as well as plots and themes, and he's become more suited to digital now. I have faith that he wouldn't sacrifice the visuals of the show for the sake of the finances, time or the ease of digital, I'd bet he knows he can make it stand up to the original series.

One of the main things I'm hoping that Lynch/Deming will keep is the fantastic orange/brown hues of the original series. It's in both the set design and the cinematography, and for me it has wonderful visual qualities — really brings some scenes into focus and has a sense of cohesiveness to it. Kind of vague, I know, but it's one of the highlights of the series to me. The orange-y skin tones in particular.

Fire Walk with Me, on the other hand, had/has horrible colour grading. The greens are obnoxious and the reds are too blended/murky, to the point where Sheryl Lee's blonde hair almost looks green in certain lighting and the Black Lodge scenes/the MFAP's suit are purple. And the dark scenes are really dark, which really accenuated the film grain (and not in a good/warm way). I'd hoped the 2014 Blu-ray would correct it, but that must have been the visuals Lynch/Ronald Víctor García wanted. :?

I'd like to thing that the new season is a merge of old and new, so I'd hope it keeps some of the original aesthetic and then adds in something along the lines of Mulholland Drive, which is really beautiful. The same kind of pale colours, not too light or dark, balanced contrast—it fits in with the themes of that film quite well too.
User avatar
Panapaok
Posts: 965
Joined: Wed Oct 07, 2015 9:07 am

Re: The visual aesthetic of the new Twin Peaks

Postby Panapaok » Thu May 26, 2016 8:57 am

Gabriel wrote:I'm interested to see how wide the screen will be. Will it be 16:9 or 2.4:1? TV shows being made in a cinematic aspect isn't unprecedented: the Clone Wars series is one example...
16:9, according to IMDb, which is usually accurate to the technical details.
This is - excuse me - a damn fine cup of coffee.
User avatar
LostInTheMovies
Posts: 1557
Joined: Tue May 20, 2014 12:48 pm

Re: The visual aesthetic of the new Twin Peaks

Postby LostInTheMovies » Thu May 26, 2016 9:04 am

Cerulean wrote:Fire Walk with Me, on the other hand, had/has horrible colour grading. The greens are obnoxious and the reds are too blended/murky, to the point where Sheryl Lee's blonde hair almost looks green in certain lighting and the Black Lodge scenes/the MFAP's suit are purple. And the dark scenes are really dark, which really accenuated the film grain (and not in a good/warm way). I'd hoped the 2014 Blu-ray would correct it, but that must have been the visuals Lynch/Ronald Víctor García wanted. :?


What did you think of the New Line DVD which, aside from its many flaws, was actually timed closer to what you wish? (I recall some posts here around the time of the blu-ray lamenting the new coloration, particularly how the skin tones and Red Room floor looked in the penultimate scene).
enumbs
Posts: 27
Joined: Thu Sep 24, 2015 4:44 pm

Re: The visual aesthetic of the new Twin Peaks

Postby enumbs » Thu May 26, 2016 10:46 am

Gabriel wrote:It won't necessarily look all that different. Digital material can be made look like pretty much what ever you want it to. Yes, the look could really pushed to an extreme if they wanted that, but it could also look practically indistinguishable from either the series or the movie.


Maybe, but I'm skeptical. People often use Mad Men as an example of a show which switched to digital with no visible change, but I could always tell the difference:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H5LABKf4PQo

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L16G3CzRpbQ

Both clips look objectively "good" I suppose, but for me the former image has something which makes it a little more special. Film often seems to greater depth to my eye, perhaps more delicacy with regards to lighting and movement? I don't know, I wish I could be more articulate about this.
Metamorphia
Posts: 315
Joined: Tue Sep 15, 2015 4:52 am

Re: The visual aesthetic of the new Twin Peaks

Postby Metamorphia » Thu May 26, 2016 11:00 am

enumbs wrote:Hi everyone, I thought it might be interesting to start a thread for discussing the look of the new series. One of the biggest reasons I'm anticipating a trailer so anxiously is to finally get a glimpse of the new season's style of cinematography etc, as I am sure it will be very different from previous iterations of Twin Peaks. For one thing, it's going to be shot on digital, using the ARRI AMIRA. Now I for one am extremely curious about the way in which Lynch will adapt to higher grade digital cameras - will he entirely abandon the murkiness of Inland Empire and essentially go for a "film" look? Or will he aspire towards an entirely different visual palette?

There's definitely more to consider than just film vs digital. The Pilot, the series and the film all have a very different feel, and I'm curious whether we'll be getting the warm filters of the show or the far starker look of FWWM. Also interesting is the fact that Lynch is working with Peter Deming, whose cinematography for Lost Highway and Mulholland Drive is rightfully praised. I confess to feeling a little bit alienated by the sometimes rough and ready style of Inland Empire, so was relieved to discover the director would not be acting as his own cinematographer this time. That said, Deming's only previous venture with digital was on Oz the Great and Powerful, which was far from his best work. Obviously that film was extremely reliant on green-screen however, so his work on Peaks will hopefully be very different.

Ultimately, this is all fairly fruitless speculation, and until we see some footage we'll have no idea what we're in store for. But I do hope that Lynch manages to create something with the aesthetic richness of his best work. When discussing the film/digital debate last year, he discussed the benefits of digital mainly in terms of it ease and practicality, while also referring to a kind of inherent soullessness that is hard to get around (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bL8pN9Cgu2k#t=43m30s). Very excited to see the ways in which Lynch will attempt to get around this issue and - to use his words - "pump the soul into it" come 2017. :)


The Arri line of high-end cameras look very much like film. I find it very hard to distinguish now between films shot on an Alexa and those shot on 35mm, especially when you take into account how clean modern film stock is and also the trend of modern colour grading. It'll have a fairly slick, modern look I imagine in line with shows like Fargo. Deming's a very good DP too and he's great at working the big, high-intensity scenes/settings (Club Silencio, Winkie's, Fred's house etc). Lynch and Deming frequently get up to crazy camera tricks and optical effects too which is exciting.

It'll be 16:9 almost certainly. Very rare for TV shows to do anything other than that. The one exception I can think of is Fincher's House of Cards which was in 2.00:1 - sort of a compromise between widescreen and flat.
User avatar
Gabriel
Posts: 746
Joined: Thu May 03, 2007 12:53 pm

Re: The visual aesthetic of the new Twin Peaks

Postby Gabriel » Thu May 26, 2016 2:33 pm

enumbs wrote:Maybe, but I'm skeptical. People often use Mad Men as an example of a show which switched to digital with no visible change, but I could always tell the difference:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H5LABKf4PQo

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L16G3CzRpbQ

Both clips look objectively "good" I suppose, but for me the former image has something which makes it a little more special. Film often seems to greater depth to my eye, perhaps more delicacy with regards to lighting and movement? I don't know, I wish I could be more articulate about this.


With all due respect, it's mostly sentimentality that brings about that view. I know, because I still get those goosebumps too, the same as I do with vinyl, even though uncompressed digital is better. In part, it's because we love the analogue imperfections of film stock, the same way we love the hiss and rumble of vinyl.

I still respect the view about film (indeed I'm trying to work out whether I can save enough to buy Kodak's new Super-8mm camera when it arrives and whether I can then afford to shoot anything on it!) but I feel it's hard to distinguish between the sort of 35mm stock used on TV shows and digital anymore.

The two scenes you use are differently paced and lit and, indeed, the look of the show changed as it moved through the 1960s. The look in the first one is a little softer and warmer and traditionally 'filmic', but that look could have been mimicked easily enough with the right digital camera equipment. The second is pristine and clean, but, if you travelled back in time 20 years and showed it to someone, they would have simply assumed it was film.
User avatar
Gabriel
Posts: 746
Joined: Thu May 03, 2007 12:53 pm

Re: The visual aesthetic of the new Twin Peaks

Postby Gabriel » Thu May 26, 2016 2:37 pm

Metamorphia wrote:It'll be 16:9 almost certainly. Very rare for TV shows to do anything other than that. The one exception I can think of is Fincher's House of Cards which was in 2.00:1 - sort of a compromise between widescreen and flat.


Yeah, the only reason for my speculating was that there's been much made about Twin Peaks being a giant film and Lynch's main movies have generally been wider than 16:9.
User avatar
Snailhead
Posts: 526
Joined: Sat Apr 02, 2016 2:45 pm

Re: The visual aesthetic of the new Twin Peaks

Postby Snailhead » Thu May 26, 2016 2:56 pm

I'm equally curious about the sound. Will we get some of the deep subtle drones of Mulholland Dr? An update on the slow speed orchestra? Prominent static and electrical sounds like in FWWM?

As for the visuals, well I absolutely adore Inland Empire in all its dingy beauty, but I'm also really looking forward to what I imagine will be a more sleek and inviting approach.
Welcome to Canada...
User avatar
Cerulean
Posts: 28
Joined: Thu May 19, 2016 5:11 pm

Re: The visual aesthetic of the new Twin Peaks

Postby Cerulean » Thu May 26, 2016 3:12 pm

LostInTheMovies wrote:
Cerulean wrote:Fire Walk with Me, on the other hand, had/has horrible colour grading. The greens are obnoxious and the reds are too blended/murky, to the point where Sheryl Lee's blonde hair almost looks green in certain lighting and the Black Lodge scenes/the MFAP's suit are purple. And the dark scenes are really dark, which really accenuated the film grain (and not in a good/warm way). I'd hoped the 2014 Blu-ray would correct it, but that must have been the visuals Lynch/Ronald Víctor García wanted. :?


What did you think of the New Line DVD which, aside from its many flaws, was actually timed closer to what you wish? (I recall some posts here around the time of the blu-ray lamenting the new coloration, particularly how the skin tones and Red Room floor looked in the penultimate scene).


Never seen the New Line DVD actually, because of the bad reviews of it and the MK2 DVD. How does it fare with the 2011/14 Blu-Rays? I'll have to pick up a copy at some point and compare them.

Snailhead wrote:I'm equally curious about the sound. Will we get some of the deep subtle drones of Mulholland Dr? An update on the slow speed orchestra? Prominent static and electrical sounds like in FWWM?


All three, if we're lucky! I'd imagine given the prominence of electricity near the end of season 2 and Fire Walk with Me's mythology that it will be there, especially if season 3 has a lot of Lodge/supernatural scenes. As a sound engineer I'm really excited to see what Lynch could do re: the series' sound design with digital workstations/plugins, etc. — that and Badalamenti's new score.
Metamorphia
Posts: 315
Joined: Tue Sep 15, 2015 4:52 am

Re: The visual aesthetic of the new Twin Peaks

Postby Metamorphia » Thu May 26, 2016 4:29 pm

Gabriel wrote:
Metamorphia wrote:It'll be 16:9 almost certainly. Very rare for TV shows to do anything other than that. The one exception I can think of is Fincher's House of Cards which was in 2.00:1 - sort of a compromise between widescreen and flat.


Yeah, the only reason for my speculating was that there's been much made about Twin Peaks being a giant film and Lynch's main movies have generally been wider than 16:9.


He's only ever shot in 2.35 when anamorphic though, hasn't he?

I don't think Showtime would be very happy if he was planning to do that tbh haha given the annoying public opinions about "black bars".
User avatar
LostInTheMovies
Posts: 1557
Joined: Tue May 20, 2014 12:48 pm

Re: The visual aesthetic of the new Twin Peaks

Postby LostInTheMovies » Fri May 27, 2016 4:23 pm

Cerulean wrote:
LostInTheMovies wrote:
Cerulean wrote:Fire Walk with Me, on the other hand, had/has horrible colour grading. The greens are obnoxious and the reds are too blended/murky, to the point where Sheryl Lee's blonde hair almost looks green in certain lighting and the Black Lodge scenes/the MFAP's suit are purple. And the dark scenes are really dark, which really accenuated the film grain (and not in a good/warm way). I'd hoped the 2014 Blu-ray would correct it, but that must have been the visuals Lynch/Ronald Víctor García wanted. :?


What did you think of the New Line DVD which, aside from its many flaws, was actually timed closer to what you wish? (I recall some posts here around the time of the blu-ray lamenting the new coloration, particularly how the skin tones and Red Room floor looked in the penultimate scene).


Never seen the New Line DVD actually, because of the bad reviews of it and the MK2 DVD. How does it fare with the 2011/14 Blu-Rays? I'll have to pick up a copy at some point and compare them.


Ross posted some caps & his (disappointed) thoughts on the difference which is a good start: http://www.dugpa.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=29924#p29924

I'll admit I'm ambivalent. There are parts where the color seems much improved & sharper to me. But yes, that reddishness takes away from the "pop" of the colors to me. I LIKED the bold offset of the red curtains, the flesh tones, and the seemingly bright white floor that feels muddied on the blu. I suspect if I was to take a really close look side by side on balance the blu's timing would appeal to me more though.
User avatar
David Locke
Posts: 300
Joined: Fri Jul 09, 2010 4:24 pm

Re: The visual aesthetic of the new Twin Peaks

Postby David Locke » Fri May 27, 2016 5:16 pm

I think that overall the Entire Mystery transfer of FWWM is the best one. Certainly better than the earlier European blu from a few years before, which had a weird green tint IIRC. The New Line DVD looks pretty good all things considered, but I think the contrast is probably artificially boosted. I am fond of it in certain ways just because I'm used to it, though.

As far as anamorphic... Lynch didn't shoot FWWM, MD, Eraserhead or IE anamorphically. They're all 1.85:1 (or is Eraserhead full-frame? It was 1.85 on the latest Lynch-approved Criterion). Though it's true that all his other features are 2.35 anamorphic. However, I suspect the new season will be the standard TV 1.78:1/16:9 ratio. While Lynch does have a liking for anamorphic, in recent years he hasn't had a problem not going wide, and doing that for television is uncommon and typically not worth the trouble. I believe True Detective S2 was shot anamorphically but cropped or framed for 1.78:1 -- and House of Cards, as has been mentioned, is in 2:1 -- but I can't recall any other series that have been shot, let alone actually presented in 2.35:1. It would be interesting to see, though! I have an usual preference for the 'Scope frame...
User avatar
ForKeeps
Posts: 199
Joined: Fri Dec 18, 2015 11:10 am

Re: The visual aesthetic of the new Twin Peaks

Postby ForKeeps » Sat May 28, 2016 2:48 am

One thing I would say about the orange/brown hues mentioned upthread: Don't forget that a lot (a majority even) of this season will take place in Las Vegas. So, not exactly the same color palette as Twin Peaks.


I have no idea what the show is going to look like and that is one of the two or three most exciting things about this for me. All I can say is that it will be both "beautiful and strange" :)

Return to “Twin Peaks”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 24 guests