Mark Frost & Fire Walk With Me

[Rudagger]

So, Mark Frost wasn't officially involved with FWWM in any capacity, beyond the fact that it was made under his production company. Mark Frost was off making Storyville at the time (in fact, the films premiere pretty close to each other).

I was curious if since then, Frost has ever talked about his thoughts on the film, what he liked/disliked/would have done differently had he been involved?

I was also curious if Lynch/Frost, before the end of their creative collaboration had actually ever discussed movie ideas? Or if that was entirely Lynch's idea once the show was cancelled.

I thought I had remembered Frost somewhere suggesting that his interest was more so in post-cliffhanger Peaks, and wasn't particularly interested in rolling back to the Laura Palmer storyline, but, I might be mistaken. I believe also he suggested that the new Peaks will take into account FWWM (clearly it has to, given that Harry Dean Stanton is on the cast-list), so, I assume he's done his studying of the film.

(Perhaps if anyone at Frost's upcoming Q&A's wants to toss a FWWM question at him, we'll be able to find out more).

[LostInTheMovies]

I've heard the same things as you and not much else, except that he seems to have made a point of not talking about it even when he was willing to be more critical of Lynch than he is now. It seems always to have been a sore subject. And it definitely seems to have been totally Lynch's idea.

Harley Peyton recently discussed FWWM (briefly) on the Twin Peaks Unwrapped podcast and I thought his response was interesting.

[Ross]

I've wondered these same things. Actually I wonder when Frost saw the film for the first time? During its release? Or years later?

[N. Needleman]

There's evidently a great deal of FWWM stuff in the new show and in Frost's own upcoming material (ahem). I think whatever issues Frost may have had with FWWM were down to their personal rift long since mended, and otherwise have been tempered by time and an obvious appreciation for Lynch's choices there. That's all I can say since the board has no spoiler tags.

[laughingpinecone]

In that 2012 interview that someone here kindly fished from the depths of the internet the other day, Frost is asked about his involvement with the movie and possible sequels thereof. He says that he would've definitely been involved in the following ones, had they been made.
Guess it supports the feeling that he was more interested in post-cliffhanger stuff?

[Rudagger]

I've heard the same things as you and not much else, except that he seems to have made a point of not talking about it even when he was willing to be more critical of Lynch than he is now. It seems always to have been a sore subject. And it definitely seems to have been totally Lynch's idea.

Harley Peyton recently discussed FWWM (briefly) on the Twin Peaks Unwrapped podcast and I thought his response was interesting.

Do you know the timestamp? Or the general gist of what he said?

There's evidently a great deal of FWWM stuff in the new show and in Frost's own upcoming material (ahem).

That is very very intriguing. can't wait for the book to drop!

In that 2012 interview that someone here kindly fished from the depths of the internet the other day, Frost is asked about his involvement with the movie and possible sequels thereof. He says that he would've definitely been involved in the following ones, had they been made.
Guess it supports the feeling that he was more interested in post-cliffhanger stuff?

I always got the impression (whether right or wrong) that where Lynch liked the mystery for it's tone and mystique, that Frost likes mystery because of the detective angle. I always thought he was the more 'plotty' of the two (given at least that Lynch's movies have never really been about the plots so much as the characters and atmosphere). Is this the one interview in question? http://welcometotwinpeaks.com/news/twin ... rk-frost/# I did some googling, one interview I found, while it didn't discuss FWWM had this interesting tidbit regarding the series;

"BD: Who’s idea was it and when was it decided to ultimately leave Dale Cooper trapped in The Black Lodge? It seems to me like Cooper’s fate is heavily hinted at during your brother’s book My Life, My Tapes.

MF: Yeah, I think it was. David and I knew we were going to end up with him there and that was always the plan , so I think we added a hint or a reference in the book to help set that up."

I haven't read 'My Life, My Tapes', but, it makes me curious what the hint was that set up Coop in the Black Lodge.

[Cerulean]

Frost's credit as executive producer always seemed strange. It implies he might have had some input/influence on the story or what content was explored, but realistically I think he was credited as such because he co-created the series and it seemed a more respectful credit than "Based on the series co-created by..."

I haven't read 'My Life, My Tapes', but, it makes me curious what the hint was that set up Coop in the Black Lodge.

There's definitely a few allusions to Bob in the book, but Cooper's fate (more so than the Lodge itself) is eerily hinted at in one passage:
"I don't know who I am. We search and search, and always end up looking into the same mirror, at the same reflection, hoping that we will find something different."

[laughingpinecone]

I've heard the same things as you and not much else, except that he seems to have made a point of not talking about it even when he was willing to be more critical of Lynch than he is now. It seems always to have been a sore subject. And it definitely seems to have been totally Lynch's idea.

Harley Peyton recently discussed FWWM (briefly) on the Twin Peaks Unwrapped podcast and I thought his response was interesting.

Do you know the timestamp? Or the general gist of what he said?

There's evidently a great deal of FWWM stuff in the new show and in Frost's own upcoming material (ahem).

That is very very intriguing. can't wait for the book to drop!

In that 2012 interview that someone here kindly fished from the depths of the internet the other day, Frost is asked about his involvement with the movie and possible sequels thereof. He says that he would've definitely been involved in the following ones, had they been made.
Guess it supports the feeling that he was more interested in post-cliffhanger stuff?

I always got the impression (whether right or wrong) that where Lynch liked the mystery for it's tone and mystique, that Frost likes mystery because of the detective angle. I always thought he was the more 'plotty' of the two (given at least that Lynch's movies have never really been about the plots so much as the characters and atmosphere). Is this the one interview in question? http://welcometotwinpeaks.com/news/twin ... rk-frost/# I did some googling, one interview I found, while it didn't discuss FWWM had this interesting tidbit regarding the series;

"BD: Who’s idea was it and when was it decided to ultimately leave Dale Cooper trapped in The Black Lodge? It seems to me like Cooper’s fate is heavily hinted at during your brother’s book My Life, My Tapes.

MF: Yeah, I think it was. David and I knew we were going to end up with him there and that was always the plan , so I think we added a hint or a reference in the book to help set that up."

I haven't read 'My Life, My Tapes', but, it makes me curious what the hint was that set up Coop in the Black Lodge.

That one, yes! It's a lovely interview. Well, all his interviews are lovely.
The hint is more of... the book's overarching structure? It shows that BOB had his eyes on him from when he was a kid and already tried to snatch him more than once.

And holy jumping George, I've been sitting here all this time like an embittered conspiracy theorist trying to prove that Coop's fate was intended from the get-go and there was a straight-up quote from Mark Frost confirming it? What am I supposed to do with this tin hat now?

[LostInTheMovies]

Not sure of time stamp, but I think the interview with Harley Peyton opens last week's episode? Worth listening to in full, but to summarize: he says he went to see FWWM in theaters with his arms metaphorically crossed across his chest but he suspects he'd be more open to it now. He says that some stuff was brilliant, because it was Lynch but that it was missing the overall shape Frost could have brought to it. And he says that the film seemed like Lynch's attempt to establish his own version of Twin Peaks but he felt it showed that Frost was a necessary ingredient to make Twin Peaks. All in all, it was very much through the prism that Frost had been shafted in the making of the film and that this was an injustice. It's a pretty open, honest interview and more fair-minded than I might have expected, since he doesn't just bash the film. He says something similar, but much briefer, in Brad's book.

[LonelySoul]

The Twin Peaks Podcast interviewed Frost in 2012 and briefly asked him about FWWM and possible sequels (that obviously never happened) at the 10:30 mark. He seems to have no animosity about anything and claims he would have been involved in any further endeavors.

https://secure-hwcdn.libsyn.com/p/5/c/b ... 3df740319f


EDIT: I see laughingpinecone beat me to it.

[laughingpinecone]

it was missing the overall shape Frost could have brought to it.

I know this is a very common complaint but it feels so weird to me... FWWM being a prequel that goes over a checklist of stuff already discussed by the series, I actually appreciate how unhinged it is.
Of course it's not the kind of thing one can imagine in details, what the movie would be like if it adhered to a stricter form, so I can't actually say that I prefer the movie we got to something hypothetical that I cannot picture in my head. Maybe it would be better! But in judging the movie we got on its own merits, I do think that it rests on the implicit structure granted to it by the series and uses it to stretch its wings further and reach new heights. /mildly related €0.02, sorry

Anyway if s3 ends up being closer to those fabled additional movies than to the original ideas for a third season, as it... seems... I think... I guess... in a way, Frost will have ended up working on it!

[Ross]

I'd love to know if Frost actually saw the movie at the time of its release. Or when he did.

[LostInTheMovies]

it was missing the overall shape Frost could have brought to it.

I know this is a very common complaint but it feels so weird to me... FWWM being a prequel that goes over a checklist of stuff already discussed by the series, I actually appreciate how unhinged it is.
Of course it's not the kind of thing one can imagine in details, what the movie would be like if it adhered to a stricter form, so I can't actually say that I prefer the movie we got to something hypothetical that I cannot picture in my head. Maybe it would be better! But in judging the movie we got on its own merits, I do think that it rests on the implicit structure granted to it by the series and uses it to stretch its wings further and reach new heights. /mildly related €0.02, sorry

Anyway if s3 ends up being closer to those fabled additional movies than to the original ideas for a third season, as it... seems... I think... I guess... in a way, Frost will have ended up working on it!

Two thoughts:

1) I'm of the opinion there would have been no FWWM if it wasn't created in the way it was. This is obvious on the level that Frost didn't want to tell that particular story, but it's true on a more fundamental level. So many of the decisions that make that film what it is were made intuitively, with Lynch feeling his way. The outcome is a direct result of the process. Another process would have led to something completely different and, I think, not as powerful.

2) This kind of ties into your last point (although from a different direction) - in a way Frost "worked" on FWWM because it grew directly out of his input into the series. As you say, the film "rests on the implicit structure granted to it by the series" and this brings us to Frost's contributions not only because he co-wrote the premise with Lynch but because many of the decisions that made the film possible in the first place - revealing the killer, taking away Coop as the noble hero of the story - seem to have had more to do with him than Lynch.

[Rudagger]

I'll have to give that Peyton interview a listen then.

Bob Engels tends to have some interesting thoughts on FWWM, though, sometimes I'm not sure how truthful he's being (or perhaps just forgetful-ness).

I think one thing Frost might've been able to do with FWWM was naturally found some stuff for the minor townsfolk to do. That's one aspect where you really need a proper structure to fit in naturally. Lynch gave it a try, given that he shot all those minor parts of the Sheriff/Pete/Josie/etc., but, they were really inconsequential to the story itself. I'm sure there's a way that you could write it some some of the stuff more naturally arcs into the show (and thus would've justified making the final cut). You can see by watching the fan-edit that places it back in how those scenes for the most part never even made sense filming (beyond the joy of working with those cast members again). Cutting from Laura on her very personal journey to the Sheriff's station would take a lot more leg work in terms of story structure for it to ever really work; I think Lynch never fully thought it through, as those scenes just kind of .. exist apart (and he made the very wise call of cutting them).

(Does that make sense; as Lynch wrote them, the townsfolk stuff was inconsequential to the final film and cut, but had Frost had a go, he might've been able to write it in a manner that actually made those parts essential?)

[laughingpinecone]

(Does that make sense; as Lynch wrote them, the townsfolk stuff was inconsequential to the final film and cut, but had Frost had a go, he might've been able to write it in a manner that actually made those parts essential?)

Makes sense to me, great point, I never thought about it from that angle - and hey, the proof is in the pudding, we'll see how s3 will fare on that front! Only thing I can object is that unlike s3, FWWM was always going to have a very limited amount of time to tell its tale, so maybe stuffing it with characters wasn't really feasible even with optimal help.

(Engels has interesting thoughts indeed, but for me at least, he manages to present them in the least palatable way possible, with the planet of corn being one of the most egregious examples. He can talk about my favourite scene in the movie and make it sound bland, so when he talks about concepts that didn't make it into the movie, I have to mentally adjust them to "...okay but they must've been cooler than he makes them sound" )

many of the decisions that made the film possible in the first place - revealing the killer, taking away Coop as the noble hero of the story - seem to have had more to do with him than Lynch.

At least Coop's eventual fall was co-plotted from the start, according to that Brad Dukes interview... ...thankfully, or it would've been a tough detail to disagree upon... but yes, I love this way of looking at it! FWWM as Lynch filling in the blanks of their shared creation. That's great.