Questions about the show

[NewtoTwinPeaks]

I'm fairly new to Twin Peaks and the forum so apologies if this is posted in the wrong section.

The show was a lot to take it and I have some questions.

In the final episode, Cooper goes to the location in the woods that will transport him to the Black Lodge... was that actually the Black Lodge or a 'waiting room' that decides who moves on to the Black Lodge/White Lodge? Why are Laura/Leland there?

How does this factor into the Bob/Leland story line? Bob seemed to take over Leland when Leland was young and my guess is this is unrelated to the Black Lodge? Can Bob take the form of any human as long as they show fear and 'let him in'? Did Bob take over Josie and kill her? Or does he feed on fear in people and 'showed' himself to Copper in that scene? If so, why?

What happened to Windom Earl? I was a little confused by the whole Red Room sequence, but it seems Dale was being 'tested' in a way by the various characters (Windom Earl, Laura Palmer, etc.)?

I probably have a lot more questions, and I guess most of this is left to interpretation.

[Major Briggs]

It's kinda complicated because none of these questions have definitive answers, interpretation counts a lot. Maybe in the new show we'll get some more light

[indyit]

As is the way with a lot in the show, there aren't many definite answers, mainly interpretations.

Based on reading I recall and my own interpretations, here's my thoughts.

Where Cooper reaches in the final ep is a combination of all of those things. This is mainly my interpretation - but I think the waiting room is where he starts (and first sits with MFAP with the coffee) and as he ventures further he's entering "the lodge" - I don't think there's a clear distinction between black and white.

Why are Laura and Leland there? That was always one thing I struggled to make sense of. What makes the most sense to me is that Leland is there because BOB had possessed him and he is therefore tied to the lodge, Laura is there because of (plot device explained in FWWM - dunno if you've seen it so won't really get into it).

The BOB/Leland stuff is all over the shop, the show and movie suggests a few different things and I don't think it's very fruitful to try to define "rules" to how Bob operates, or indeed appears in the show. I think he runs on some dream logic and (what appears to me to be) magic. I think you're right in saying Bob can take any human he breaks down who then 'let him in'. Leland let him in. In terms of BOB feeding on fear, some of that is obtusely explained in FWWM and I think the further interpretation made after that film makes some sense in explaining that. That scene with Josie, was very uneven. I think BOB and MFAP was brought on for fun more than anything even though I think it is suggested that Josie scared herself to death/enough to make her susceptible to BOB, with BOB taking advantage of the situation. I think BOB appeared in front of Coop to gloat as well as hint to the audience that BOB had a hand in it.

I think Earle was destroyed, but who knows! That entire sequence is very obtuse, so it's hard to say what was going on but I agree it seemed like Cooper was going through a number of tests, and he may have ultimately failed.

[NewtoTwinPeaks]

Thanks for the reply. I do hope some of these things are tied in for the 3rd season.

I think what I have most issue with is the representation of Leland in the show vs. the movie as it seems to be a retcon. I don't have issues with Lynch going in the direction of Leland being an abuser to an extent, but it seems to contradict the show. Hopefully we get an answer for that.

[kitty666cats]

That entire sequence is very obtuse, so it's hard to say what was going on but I agree it seemed like Cooper was going through a number of tests, and he may have ultimately failed.

Cooper showed imperfect courage, which utterly annihilated his soul. Hopefully S3 will show us that this isn't a permanent thing, though!

[indyit]

That entire sequence is very obtuse, so it's hard to say what was going on but I agree it seemed like Cooper was going through a number of tests, and he may have ultimately failed.

Cooper showed imperfect courage, which utterly annihilated his soul. Hopefully S3 will show us that this isn't a permanent thing, though!

Yes going back to what Hawk had said in his speech about the Lodges! I forgot to mention that. It may be that initially Coop was in the waiting room, then reached the black lodge where he met his doppelganger or "the dweller on the threshold" as Hawk calls it, and because he instantly ran away he ultimately showed "imperfect courage".

I guess then it's possible we've never seen the white lodge, but where we see Laura and Cooper in the end of FWWM may have been the white lodge, but I doubt Cooper has access if he "failed" the test. I guess that was just the waiting room.

I hope Hawk simply got that part wrong. It utterly annihilating Cooper's soul isn't something I want to see.

[mine]

I think what I have most issue with is the representation of Leland in the show vs. the movie as it seems to be a retcon. I don't have issues with Lynch going in the direction of Leland being an abuser to an extent, but it seems to contradict the show. Hopefully we get an answer for that.

Interesting, I never thought of it as being a contradiction. Leland is never really cleared of it in the show by neither Laura (the my father killed me line) or anybody else in the aftermath of his death.

[kitty666cats]

That entire sequence is very obtuse, so it's hard to say what was going on but I agree it seemed like Cooper was going through a number of tests, and he may have ultimately failed.

Cooper showed imperfect courage, which utterly annihilated his soul. Hopefully S3 will show us that this isn't a permanent thing, though!

Yes going back to what Hawk had said in his speech about the Lodges! I forgot to mention that. It may be that initially Coop was in the waiting room, then reached the black lodge where he met his doppelganger or "the dweller on the threshold" as Hawk calls it, and because he instantly ran away he ultimately showed "imperfect courage".

I guess then it's possible we've never seen the white lodge, but where we see Laura and Cooper in the end of FWWM may have been the white lodge, but I doubt Cooper has access if he "failed" the test. I guess that was just the waiting room.

I hope Hawk simply got that part wrong. It utterly annihilating Cooper's soul isn't something I want to see.

I always considered that scene with Major Briggs sitting on a throne surrounded by plants as a quick glimpse at the White Lodge, myself

[NewtoTwinPeaks]

I think what I have most issue with is the representation of Leland in the show vs. the movie as it seems to be a retcon. I don't have issues with Lynch going in the direction of Leland being an abuser to an extent, but it seems to contradict the show. Hopefully we get an answer for that.

Interesting, I never thought of it as being a contradiction. Leland is never really cleared of it in the show by neither Laura (the my father killed me line) or anybody else in the aftermath of his death.

I guess you could say that but the scene where Leland is dying and states that he couldn't remember anything seemed quite sincere. It seems like the movie contradicts that.

I do think the conversation later about Bob between Albert, Cooper, and Harry leaves things open-ended.

Speaking of inconsistencies, I've always thought the one-armed man was different in the movie compared to the show. He seemed to know who Bob was.

[mine]

That's Twin Peaks for you. Everything's plausible, nothing is definitive.

[BetweenTwoWorlds]

...I agree it seemed like Cooper was going through a number of tests, and he may have ultimately failed.

When I saw the original ABC broadcast of the series finale, I was depressed for a week. But after subsequent viewings of the entire series, starting from the original VHS release, I've come to believe that the ending is fitting -- inevitable, even, in a Greek tragedy kind of way.

Cooper has natural shamanic talent, but it's largely undeveloped. He's aware of the spirit world, but he has absolutely no context for understanding it, and so his interactions with it are clumsy from the start, and they don't get much better as the series progresses. He journeys to another place early in the show but can't bring the medicine back to consensus reality (by not being able to remember Laura's killer's name). This tells us that he's in over his head. By the time "it is happening again," he's flailing badly. Yes, he uses magic to regain access to his secret knowledge, but he does so out of desperation, and even then he misses crucial components. The giant isn't summoned; he invites himself. He also supplies the, umm, sacred gum? A proper shaman brings his own.

So when Cooper physically enters the spirit world, as noble as his intentions may be, he's nowhere near being equal to the challenge. He wanders aimlessly from room to room, simply reacting to everything he sees. I'd argue that he doesn't pass a single test. He never even gets past the gate. What is this other than imperfect courage? Of course the evil spirits overtake him. He's offering himself to them on a platter.

I'm a little reluctant for this new season. As much as I dearly love the original run and the feature film, I don't know how you continue Cooper's story without attributing to him a level of spiritual sophistication that was potentially but never actually his.

[Snailhead]

It's funny - when I first watched FWWM after having seen the series, the portrayal of Leland as being seemingly aware of BOB's abuse bothered me in how it contradicted the show, but then later on it became the opposite - when watching Episode 16 I was annoyed at the way he claimed to have had no idea of anything he'd done.

Now I've reconciled the two as being part of the same narrative. When BOB "pulls the ripcord" in Episode 16, no doubt that vivid memories of BOB's evil deeds began to flood in, images that had been concealed from Leland. Deep down, Leland probably knew all along that it was him, but lacked the specific memory of killing Laura, hence why he was so desperate to cling to the chance that it had been someone else, i.e. Jacques.
Leland probably had some vague memory of seeing and attacking Jacques the night of Laura's death, and that contributed to his conviction that Jacques was the killer. I will say that when Leland strangles Jacques at the hospital, he seems very BOB-like when he immediately stops crying as the fire alarm shuts off. Makes me wonder if BOB had anything to do with Jacques' murder or if it was entirely Leland's initiative.

Where it gets very complicated is when it comes to Theresa Banks - to what extent was BOB involved in that murder?
In FWWM, we don't see BOB in her murder scene (though that doesn't necessarily mean he wasn't present), however the letter under the fingernail and the plastic wrapping are associated with BOB.

[Metamorphia]

I don't think there's much contradiction regarding Leland, I think FWWM just stated quite definitively what was merely implied in the show.

[N. Needleman]

I agree.

[NewtoTwinPeaks]

I don't think there's much contradiction regarding Leland, I think FWWM just stated quite definitively what was merely implied in the show.

Just wondering, what scenes do you see implying that Leland was aware of murdering Laura?