is there any other show that even comes close to your obsession with TP?

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djerdap
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Re: is there any other show that even comes close to your obsession with TP?

Postby djerdap » Mon Apr 17, 2017 12:23 pm

Agent Earle wrote:Well then, maybe stay out of the thread where shows are being discussed in detail. My discussion about The Shield wasn't the first such discussion here, and it wasn't the most concrete plot points-heavy of them either.


I have seen The Shield. I have started this latest discussion on it. I was referring to Gabriel's post, which explains what happens to the main character in the end, not yours (I have deliberately not quoted the post because it still might get edited... but of course you already did that, kinda spoiling Breaking Bad as well in the process). I haven't even read (or cared to have read) other stuff about The Shield you have written. And the thread title does not imply at all that some heavy spoilers are being divulged on shows without warning.

I don't mind spoilers on shows I've seen obviously, I just would think that folks who would get interested in some of the shows we're talking about here wouldn't want to get spoiled to such extent. We used to deal with this by putting smaller fonts when talking spoilers. A spoiler tag usually works nicely on other message boards, it would be great to have it here as well - especially when new Twin Peaks starts. That was my suggestion.
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Re: is there any other show that even comes close to your obsession with TP?

Postby Agent Earle » Mon Apr 17, 2017 12:56 pm

djerdap wrote:
Agent Earle wrote:Well then, maybe stay out of the thread where shows are being discussed in detail. My discussion about The Shield wasn't the first such discussion here, and it wasn't the most concrete plot points-heavy of them either.


I have seen The Shield. I have started this latest discussion on it. I was referring to Gabriel's post, which explains what happens to the main character in the end, not yours (I have deliberately not quoted the post because it still might get edited... but of course you already did that, kinda spoiling Breaking Bad as well in the process). I haven't even read (or cared to have read) other stuff about The Shield you have written. And the thread title does not imply at all that some heavy spoilers are being divulged on shows without warning.

I don't mind spoilers on shows I've seen obviously, I just would think that folks who would get interested in some of the shows we're talking about here wouldn't want to get spoiled to such extent. We used to deal with this by putting smaller fonts when talking spoilers. A spoiler tag usually works nicely on other message boards, it would be great to have it here as well - especially when new Twin Peaks starts. That was my suggestion.


I don't see how any of what you just wrote affects the contents of my previous post (which you quoted), so I still stand by it. If people are so wary of getting their future viewing spoiled, they should simply stay away from the thread where popular TV shows of the past (various things in regards to them, and yes, their contents most definitely too) are quite clearly being discussed - no, the title of the thread doesn't say that the mentioned shows are dissected in detail, but I think it's clear to anyone possessing common sense just a few posts in that that is exactly what's happening here, so the safest bet for them would be to just stay away.
Other than that, if you have the time, I suggest you go over the posts in this thread from the beginning to see how many of the shows are - according to you - spoiled and maybe take issue with them as well. Or are you feeling so protective just of those particular shows that you, particularly, have started the debate over?
djerdap
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Re: is there any other show that even comes close to your obsession with TP?

Postby djerdap » Mon Apr 17, 2017 1:00 pm

Agent Earle wrote:I don't see how any of what you just wrote affects the contents of my previous post (which you quoted), so I still stand by it. If people are so wary of getting their future viewing spoiled, they should simply stay away from the thread where popular TV shows of the past (various things in regards to them, and yes, their contents most definitely too) are quite clearly being discussed - no, the title of the thread doesn't say that the mentioned shows are dissected in detail, but I think it's clear to anyone possessing common sense just a few posts in that that is exactly what's happening here, so the safest bet for them would be to just stay away.
Other than that, if you have the time, I suggest you go over the posts in this thread from the beginning to see how many of the shows are - according to you - spoiled and maybe take issue with them as well. Or are you feeling so protective just of those particular shows that you, particularly, have started the debate over?


Another suggestion - ignore list.
Agent Earle
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Re: is there any other show that even comes close to your obsession with TP?

Postby Agent Earle » Mon Apr 17, 2017 1:06 pm

djerdap wrote:
Agent Earle wrote:I don't see how any of what you just wrote affects the contents of my previous post (which you quoted), so I still stand by it. If people are so wary of getting their future viewing spoiled, they should simply stay away from the thread where popular TV shows of the past (various things in regards to them, and yes, their contents most definitely too) are quite clearly being discussed - no, the title of the thread doesn't say that the mentioned shows are dissected in detail, but I think it's clear to anyone possessing common sense just a few posts in that that is exactly what's happening here, so the safest bet for them would be to just stay away.
Other than that, if you have the time, I suggest you go over the posts in this thread from the beginning to see how many of the shows are - according to you - spoiled and maybe take issue with them as well. Or are you feeling so protective just of those particular shows that you, particularly, have started the debate over?


Another suggestion - ignore list.


Too bad you haven't followed your own suggestion earlier on. It would've saved us this fruitless quarrel.
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Gabriel
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Re: is there any other show that even comes close to your obsession with TP?

Postby Gabriel » Mon Apr 17, 2017 2:23 pm

djerdap wrote:I have seen The Shield. I have started this latest discussion on it. I was referring to Gabriel's post, which explains what happens to the main character in the end, not yours (I have deliberately not quoted the post because it still might get edited...


The Shield is a 15 year old TV series that ended nearly a decade ago. The DVDs have been cheaply available for many years now and the show is available on streaming services. If a show had ended in the last 12 months, I can understand being a little bit careful, but when you're talking about old television shows, long since finished, in a retrospective TV thread (as opposed to recommendations of what to watch while waiting for new Twin Peaks) you have to expect discussion of what happened. I'm the king of avoiding spoilers, but this is supposed to be a discussion about things we've already loved. If you don't want to be spoilered, then this is clearly, from the title, likely to include spoilers. I wouldn't make such remarks on the recommendations thread.

I also really revealed very little in my remark. Common sense applies if you come on this kind of a thread.
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Gabriel
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Re: is there any other show that even comes close to your obsession with TP?

Postby Gabriel » Mon Apr 17, 2017 2:34 pm

Agent Earle wrote:
Gabriel wrote:Vic wins, but loses everything in the process.


Kinda like Walter White, wouldn't you agree?


Very much so. Walter beautifully encapsulates the angry villain sitting in each of us, full of resentment at his own mistakes and for those who did better. The need to prove we're worth something and better than those around us. Vic and Walter both found a way to outwit and destroy everyone. Both are Ozymandius. Both had to lose everything to prove that they had been the greatest through nefarious means. The police and criminals realised they'd been completely outplayed by Vic. Imagine how the high school kids must have felt about Walter White, the man they routinely mocked, when they found out about Heisenberg.

Certainly, Michael Chiklis and Brian Cranston played two of the finest antiheroes in television history.
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Re: is there any other show that even comes close to your obsession with TP?

Postby Ashok » Mon Apr 17, 2017 8:48 pm

I just wanted to say that The Shield S7 may be one of the best seasons of any television show I've ever seen. It's one of the few shows where I had absolutely no idea how things would end. I think a majority of shows I've fallen in love with have had endings which were a bit safe and predictable (which can actually be a good thing). But The Shield did a fantastic job of staying unpredictable and it stuck the landing with one of the best closings scenes in recent TV history. Would def recommend to anyone looking for another series to marathon.
"Whatever happened, happened." -Daniel Faraday
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Re: is there any other show that even comes close to your obsession with TP?

Postby Agent Earle » Tue Apr 18, 2017 1:21 am

Gabriel wrote:
Agent Earle wrote:
Gabriel wrote:Vic wins, but loses everything in the process.


Kinda like Walter White, wouldn't you agree?


Very much so. Walter beautifully encapsulates the angry villain sitting in each of us, full of resentment at his own mistakes and for those who did better. The need to prove we're worth something and better than those around us. Vic and Walter both found a way to outwit and destroy everyone. Both are Ozymandius. Both had to lose everything to prove that they had been the greatest through nefarious means. The police and criminals realised they'd been completely outplayed by Vic. Imagine how the high school kids must have felt about Walter White, the man they routinely mocked, when they found out about Heisenberg.

Certainly, Michael Chiklis and Brian Cranston played two of the finest antiheroes in television history.



Agreed on all counts. Portrayal of WW as a life's loser whose bitterness and resentment over how his once promising career went south, degrading his genius to a pathetically ordinary small-town life along the way well before his cancer diagnosis makes an entrance, is the crucial selling point of the show for me and it's this angle that carried me through the increasingly outlandish schemes Walter manages to pull off and breakneck situations he conquers as the series progresses, motivated as he is not by the dough but by the addictive feeling of finally getting to do and excelling at what he was "built for" - it's all so easy to swallow 'cause he's so damned human, recognizable and identifiable with.
There are shades of this unstable, deeply dissatisfied, "damaged", if you will, individual with "normal" woes and troubles in such early golden-era-TV landmark and larger-then-life antihero as Tony Soprano, to be sure, but the context in which he operated was more alienating to the majority of viewers than the drab surroundings of WW, making it possible to (as tons of movies and series already did before) glamorize the oh-so-unreachable wiseguy's lifestyle even as he was tiptoeing around his wife, taking shit from his mother, lecturing his teenage daughter or passing out from the odd panic attack. With Walt, though, there was no distance, no glamour, no escapism - a look in the mirror told you so.
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Re: is there any other show that even comes close to your obsession with TP?

Postby Dead Dog » Tue Apr 18, 2017 5:25 am

Agent Earle wrote:They shouldn't read it, then. For instance, I skip all posts or parts of them that deal with a show I have yet to watch, like Mad Men - it's the safest bet. Just as soon as I read the title, I "turn it off".

Agreed. I have skipped over every Six Feet Under and Mad Men comment in this thread, as I plan on watching both eventually. Conversely, I like to read detailed comments on shows I haven't seen and have no desire to see (like Lost or Millenium) so that I can get the gist of what the shows were about, their arc (in general) and what it was folks liked about them. Finally, if you enter a thread dedicated to discussing all-time favorite shows, you'd best be prepared for some spoilers.

I hope that, someday, we'll all agree on a reasonable amount of time that passes before we can talk details about entertainment without folks griping about being spoiled. I saw folks recently bitching about details of Twin Peaks being spoiled. It's 27 years old--- if you haven't seen it yet, tough luck. If you are watching it for the first time and don't want to be "spoiled" have some self control and avoid internet discussions about the show. I recently had somebody get upset with me for "spoiling" the final scene in Chinatown. It's a forty-two year old film!
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tid
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Re: is there any other show that even comes close to your obsession with TP?

Postby tid » Wed Apr 19, 2017 5:00 am

A show called GEORGE & MILDRED. Or possibly, BLIGH (1992).
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Re: is there any other show that even comes close to your obsession with TP?

Postby Gabriel » Wed Apr 19, 2017 1:45 pm

Agent Earle wrote:

Agreed on all counts. Portrayal of WW as a life's loser whose bitterness and resentment over how his once promising career went south, degrading his genius to a pathetically ordinary small-town life along the way well before his cancer diagnosis makes an entrance, is the crucial selling point of the show for me and it's this angle that carried me through the increasingly outlandish schemes Walter manages to pull off and breakneck situations he conquers as the series progresses, motivated as he is not by the dough but by the addictive feeling of finally getting to do and excelling at what he was "built for" - it's all so easy to swallow 'cause he's so damned human, recognizable and identifiable with.
There are shades of this unstable, deeply dissatisfied, "damaged", if you will, individual with "normal" woes and troubles in such early golden-era-TV landmark and larger-then-life antihero as Tony Soprano, to be sure, but the context in which he operated was more alienating to the majority of viewers than the drab surroundings of WW, making it possible to (as tons of movies and series already did before) glamorize the oh-so-unreachable wiseguy's lifestyle even as he was tiptoeing around his wife, taking shit from his mother, lecturing his teenage daughter or passing out from the odd panic attack. With Walt, though, there was no distance, no glamour, no escapism - a look in the mirror told you so.


I love Walter's final admission: it was very refreshing after all the usual TV gumph we come to expect of doing it 'for the people you love.' That he did it for himself, that he was good at it and he liked it. When he said that, I looked to the sky and said 'Thank you!' Even though he's become a villain, he speaks for small businessmen like me who are supposed to feel guilty for having to be self interested to do well. Strip away the fantasy veneer of the monstrous criminal drug dealer and what have you got? An extreme version of someone who has worked hard, risked much and made countless personal and family sacrifices to run a business successfully (that's probably a stretch, but Walter's words fit me as a businessman!)
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Re: is there any other show that even comes close to your obsession with TP?

Postby tmurry » Thu Apr 20, 2017 9:00 am

I find the last couple of Breaking Bad comments interesting in that they are pushing against the "mainstream internet critical" disdain for the ending. One factor people don't really talk about is how BB (and it's contemporary Mad Man), though they both occupy the same zone of TV history (they were dominant early golden age hangover/prestige-in-quotes era shows), straddle a sociopolitical shift that is really evident in their attendant criticism. They began in the 1% despising, bubble busting era and ended during the dominance of identity politics. BB worked really well as an updated Sopranos, concerned with male identity losing social force, but with an emphasis on inequality of distribution of money and power (the Sopranos had normal money woes, but the money and power were fluctuating constants not a central variable). Walter White lives in a world where if you aren't someone who is exercising economic violence, then you are nobody.

The story is carefully constructed so that each choice is entirely understandable in our capital/class based society, terrible but completely understandable-in-context action is required, and people are going to get hurt. It's just that the show implicates him so directly that you wind up having to ask "in order for a gifted man to find satisfaction in who he is in todays marketplace, does he have to be a bad guy" or "there is only power free from morality and superheroes don't exist, only supervillains" or, ultimately, "what is wrong with American ideology." You are supposed to be in the middle, in the bind of finding the actor entirely empathetic while finding the actions abhorrent.

But the tone of the late criticism of the show was pitched to a large extent as "this is toxic masculinity and look at what whiny privilege gets us... LOL male tears." I think the last season of BB is the closest to perfect of any show I've seen (I've had more personal attachment to others, but you have to admire the watch-like precision). But reading the pans of the final episode at the time, it seemed obvious that the reviewers saw no tension, only a man who needed to be punished, and only a degrading ending with no catharsis concerning the main character at all would suffice (the criticism objectified White as an image to be degraded). I find this fascinating, and I think this is a background for the unseen force being pushed back against in these comments. BB was a story of a man who decides to work hard and succeed which he could not do under a perverse system without himself being perverted. How a critique of power under capital and it's effect on identity came to be seen as primarily about how awful men are is something to think about.
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Re: is there any other show that even comes close to your obsession with TP?

Postby krishnanspace » Thu Apr 20, 2017 10:23 am

Did anyone watch Fargo Today?There were lot of Lynchian Transitions in the new episode
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Re: is there any other show that even comes close to your obsession with TP?

Postby claaa7 » Thu Apr 20, 2017 11:35 pm

i just completed viewing "Vinyl" yesterday.. as a huge fan of "Boardwalk Empire", Martin Scorsese and being a huge music fanatic this show looked very good on paper. It turned out to not live up to the hype but it was also far from as bad as many of the negative reviews tried to make it.. The Pilot episode which runs almost 2 hours was very similiar to "Wolf of Wall Street" and alone makes it worth having in the collection. whether you want to watch the show or not if you're a movie buff you should definitely see the Scorsese directed episode.. beautifully shot and crafted, it brought me in to Richie Finestra's drug fueled mind and rock scored world in a way that unfortunately no other director on the series came even close to matching again.

well wroth seeing at least one time, but far from the glory of "Boardwalk Empire", which in fact IS a series that's as amazing as TP.
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Re: is there any other show that even comes close to your obsession with TP?

Postby StrangerDanger » Wed May 03, 2017 8:00 am

* Star Trek - The Next Generation - to me this is like Asimov and Arthur C. Clarke put into motion.
Really feeds my imagination and l so hope we can one day reach the stars, and l hope we meet aliens.

* The Simpsons - was heart leaveningly funny up to the early 2000s
(after that, Homer became just a heartless and sick individual, and in some episodes there were literally no jokes, l'm quite a cerebral person but even i noticed zero humour in the latter day series).


^^^ These are iconic in different ways. Also: Twin Peaks was deeply disturbing like no other show, perhaps because l was young and didn't fully understand it at first.
It wasn't all that popular among my peers and l never really followed it but for the occasional episode here and there, and the last few episodes in sequence.
What l saw reached out and grabbed me.

As for other series like X-Files and all that ... naaaaah, never gave them time of day, they didn't seem as subtle and sophisticated, they didn't grab me. :)
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