Season 4? Or is it over after this?

Discussion of Twin Peaks TV Series, Fire Walk With Me, and Books

Moderators: Annie, BookhouseBoyBob, Ross, Jerry Horne, Brad D

Forum rules
Welcome to the forum. We know our members are passionate about their love for all things Twin Peaks. You wouldn't be here if that wasn't the case. Despite having differing viewpoints it is a policy that we all treat each other with mutual respect.

Posting abusive, obscene, vulgar, slanderous, hateful, threatening, sexually-orientated, or any material that may violate any laws be it of your country or the country where this forum is hosted will get you permanently banned.

Posting of spoilers are allowed as long as you indicate (Spoilers) in the topic name and use the Spoiler Tag.
User avatar
NormoftheAndes
Posts: 129
Joined: Fri Nov 04, 2016 4:00 am

Re: Season 4? Or is it over after this?

Postby NormoftheAndes » Sat Mar 07, 2020 8:07 am

boske wrote:
Story-wise, they could tie up some loose ends, such as the missing agent Desmond. The way S3 ended left a clear open possibility of Richard and Carrie continuing their pursuit of a way out or back, but that then would be an expectation, and we've seen what S3 did to expectations. And here is why I am at this point more inclined to think that S4 is more unlikely that not: with Dougie Jones' return Cooper's story ends, it is a closure. Cooper lives on as "corrected" Dougie Jones, having a proper family of his own. What about Richard's fate? Would a new season be warranted to rectify it? At this moment I think not, and, and here is where most people may very well likely disagree with me, I do not think there is a way out of it. What would the successful outcome be here? Could it top the one from FWWM with Laura and her guardian angel? I don't think so. We've never seem the White Lodge really, have we? Can Lynch even visualise it? To me it seems the best we can hope for here is another stalemate with Laura whispering to Cooper in the waiting room.

Thus, my gut feeling at this point is that there is a 15% chance that there will be S4 (probably a four-part series), and 85% that there will not be one. Deadline? Two more years. Hopefully L&F catch a really big fish (for example that S3 was all simply Audrey's comatose dream), and that then gets the ball rolling. Seeing that Matinee Heroes tweet was encouraging, there still is the great cast we have for a new story, and if so, for more than just "Find Laura" from Ray Wise.


Having Desmond in the show could be entirely possible. Any of the Odessa aspects are a stretch for me as they're so specific to that world. Since the characters also are abstractions or alter-egos it all seems even more tenuous. I saw Dougie as Cooper's innocent dream-self. In terms of story and characters, I think any continuing story would have to be as new and fresh as everything in season 3, albeit with more continuity and sense of drama - more akin to the original Twin Peaks in some senses.

I can see that direction being likely after the mostly experimental nature of The Return.

If you only think there is a 15% likelihood of more Twin Peaks, I'm kind of surprised you're even bothering speculating! :lol:
User avatar
NormoftheAndes
Posts: 129
Joined: Fri Nov 04, 2016 4:00 am

Re: Season 4? Or is it over after this?

Postby NormoftheAndes » Sat Mar 07, 2020 8:13 am

Mr. Reindeer wrote:
baxter wrote:
It’s so odd to me that most fans seem to be putting a time limit on the possibility of a S4. TR was a gift none of us could have predicted, decades after the original show ended with no hope of return, and it was a one-off. The only takeaway for me is, anything is possible.


You must be well aware that fans are putting a time limit on Twin Peaks' future due to Lynch now being older. Funnily though, when he was in his 50s for instance there were never much talk of him returning to the project.

I would agree with you that anything is possible. I think that Lynch (and Frost) will have discussed and taken notes on some ideas for where Twin Peaks could go now - Lynch has often involved his family in Twin Peaks so in the future I can see them becoming even more creatively involved with the whole thing. At the same time, if he can creatively motivate himself to work on TP then I am sure he will and that could happen anytime I believe.
User avatar
freeek
Posts: 27
Joined: Tue Nov 01, 2016 10:47 am

Re: Season 4? Or is it over after this?

Postby freeek » Sat Mar 07, 2020 8:37 am

There's a time limit because all talent involved, actors and Lynch himself, are not getting any younger.
User avatar
boske
Posts: 458
Joined: Wed Nov 16, 2016 4:15 am

Re: Season 4? Or is it over after this?

Postby boske » Sat Mar 07, 2020 8:39 am

NormoftheAndes wrote:Having Desmond in the show could be entirely possible. Any of the Odessa aspects are a stretch for me as they're so specific to that world. Since the characters also are abstractions or alter-egos it all seems even more tenuous. I saw Dougie as Cooper's innocent dream-self. In terms of story and characters, I think any continuing story would have to be as new and fresh as everything in season 3, albeit with more continuity and sense of drama - more akin to the original Twin Peaks in some senses.

I can see that direction being likely after the mostly experimental nature of The Return.

I would not mind that at all, but I tend to agree with what Mr. Reindeer just wrote. DKL is more likely to come up with something new. He is not a kind of person that would have droughts in his creative work, which need not be film related at all. The danger with S4 is in it getting repetitive. Myself, I would not mind 90 minutes of Cooper strolling in the lodge, but there is just that many times you can pull that rabbit out of a cylinder hat. I wish we're getting S4, but I am frankly not optimistic.

NormoftheAndes wrote:If you only think there is a 15% likelihood of more Twin Peaks, I'm kind of surprised you're even bothering speculating! :lol:

It is still better than one in a million ("so you're telling me there is a chance"). :-D
User avatar
Mr. Reindeer
Posts: 2753
Joined: Mon Jan 26, 2015 4:09 pm

Re: Season 4? Or is it over after this?

Postby Mr. Reindeer » Sat Mar 07, 2020 9:11 am

Of course age is a factor, which is why I previously said I’m optimistic for more as long as Lynch is above ground and healthy. For me, that’s the ONLY factor, not some arbitrary two- or five-year deadline of the project being announced.
LateReg
Posts: 1000
Joined: Sun May 10, 2015 5:19 pm

Re: Season 4? Or is it over after this?

Postby LateReg » Sat Mar 07, 2020 12:32 pm

NormoftheAndes wrote:
Jerry Horne wrote:How long before any of you lose hope for a fourth season? This April? 2021? 2025? For me, if nothing is announced by the 30th anniversary on 4/8, I would have a hard time believing it will come back.


But what precedent is there for an announcement on any anniversary? We had season 3 announced back in 2014 right?

However, I do agree that the 30th anniversary would be a great means of announcing something new based around the interest in Twin Peaks, looking back to the pilot episode in 1990 and so forth - you can't deny the power of nostalgia. I know many people claimed The Return was anti-nostalgia but I didn't sense that, it was just more interested in living inside its own dream.


That's interesting. This only loosely applies to this discussion of Season 4, but I've many times said that I think The Return was more of a harsh and complicated interrogation of nostalgia than strictly anti-nostalgia. It emerged in an age of reboots, and because of how interested it was in, as you say, "living inside its own dream," seemed to take nostalgia-based reboot culture to task, and if the finale could be boiled down to a single message, it would almost have to be "you can't go home again," which is as close to anti-nostalgia as possible; in part 17 and 18, Laura disappears once Cooper looks back, which is another sign of the same (along with all the implications of messing with the original series). There's a lot throughout the series that could be seen the same way, but again, I think it's interrogating the viewer's and the TV/Film landscape's ideas about and reliance upon nostalgia rather than simply anti-nostalgic. Lynch reuniting and in some cases calling attention to the pairing of certain actors is proof of his own nostalgia, though that dovetails with themes about the passage of time. But I certainly don't think it's simply "nostalgic," either, and certainly more anti- than pro-. The interrogation of nostalgia is one of the five or so key points of the piece.

On the subject of Season 4, I don't think I'd ever lose hope at this point, but like Reindeer I do wonder whether Lynch will do something else first. I admit my hopes would be slightly diminished if whatever he did next was a massive multi-year project that wasn't Twin Peaks-related, simply because he's not getting any younger. But I still wouldn't totally rule it out.

I also will say that I don't believe that there is a chance that Lynch gets any less freedom than he had for Season 3. No chance. Anybody who enters into the pact with Lynch after The Return is doing so knowing its reputation as both a challenging and acclaimed show for which he was given carte blanche, and there's at least a couple networks I can think of who would welcome the opportunity to finance the same type of art. Maybe Showtime for some reason doesn't have as much money to give him, but the freedom and lack of time constraints that would allow for whatever format Lynch desires would still be there. That said, I think that time was a major theme of The Return and it is reflected in the 18 hours in all of their content and use of duration. I don't believe that time will be used in quite the same way if there is a continuation unless it once again holds meaning.
baxter
Posts: 478
Joined: Sun Mar 06, 2016 4:12 pm

Re: Season 4? Or is it over after this?

Postby baxter » Sat Mar 07, 2020 3:06 pm

My view on there being no more TP if Lynch works on something else is simply that I don't think he has time left for two major projects. Not that I think he is ill, it's just that each might take 5 years or so and you never know.
User avatar
NormoftheAndes
Posts: 129
Joined: Fri Nov 04, 2016 4:00 am

Re: Season 4? Or is it over after this?

Postby NormoftheAndes » Sat Mar 07, 2020 3:23 pm

Very good comments LateReg. I am often surprised when people declare that The Return is about nostalgia or deals with such concepts as time as it sounds so vague to me and also I'm just not convinced. I don't think it is significantly ABOUT such a concept although it certainly deals with how much time has passed since 1992.

For me at least, Cooper being Dougie in Las Vegas was a major step away from any attempt to reconnect him to the world of Twin Peaks. Even when he does 'come back' and appears as Cooper his return to Twin Peaks seems rushed and deliberately ridiculous. 'Entering Twin Peaks city limits?' - this sounds like the worst encapsulation of Cooper returning to his loved town.

So much of The Return feels like a self-aware organism and also a big experiment. It acknowledges our sentiments and desire for a real return to characters we might have a fondness for but the project itself doesn't enable a COMPLETE return to the true Twin Peaks, whatever we view that as being. Certainly not in terms of missing characters like Harry Truman. We are often reminded of his absence but there is no means in the show to give us any sense of fulfiment or any sentimental feeling.

Probably the most 'nostalgic' facet of The Return is the portrayal of Sarah Palmer in my view - her trauma and suffering is shown fully and without any softening. Its harsh, unpleasant and upsetting. We never even get to see Sarah get any help - Dr Hayward is not in town and only seen via Skype. By the end of the season, we have no idea even where she is.

The overall feeling left by The Return is quite bleak and unsatisfying for anyone wishing for an inkling of a coherent ending or story. Quite a few fans have felt let down by season 3 and its entirely understandable why. I enjoyed the season as a journey or a ride but all I felt at the end of part 18 was 'this cannot be the end'... :D
User avatar
FauxOwl
Posts: 151
Joined: Sun May 18, 2014 3:08 pm

Re: Season 4? Or is it over after this?

Postby FauxOwl » Sat Mar 07, 2020 4:48 pm

If the aforementioned casting rumors are legit, I think for me it would come down what that turns out to be (fully acknowledging the rumors may not be legit). If Lynch has a non Twin Peaks project on the scale of a feature film or limited series, I'd be very surprised if Lynch returns to Twin Peaks after that. If the rumors turn out to be related to Twin Peaks, well that answers that.
User avatar
AXX°N N.
Posts: 346
Joined: Wed Mar 08, 2017 8:47 pm

Re: Season 4? Or is it over after this?

Postby AXX°N N. » Sat Mar 07, 2020 10:57 pm

NormoftheAndes wrote:I am often surprised when people declare that The Return is about nostalgia or deals with such concepts as time as it sounds so vague to me and also I'm just not convinced. I don't think it is significantly ABOUT such a concept although it certainly deals with how much time has passed since 1992.

I don't see how it can be denied. There's so much to point to, but one need only bring up Audrey's scenes. She's not where we would have ever envisioned her in terms of where her life ended up, something feels wrong about it, and about her, almost pathologically. And then when she finally arrives at the Roadhouse, she walks in extremely, visibly vulnerable as a song is playing, the lyrics rather overtly about lost opportunities by way of aging. She then does the most Audrey thing yet, a literal repeat of her dance, but something once again feels wrong about it, to the point we question what reality or lack thereof is at work.

It's not just that the 25 year interim is treated as a plot point. It's thematic.
Recipe not my own. In a coffee cup. 3 TBS flour, 2 TBS sugar, 1.5 TBS cocoa powder, .25 TSP baking powder, pinch of salt. 3 TBS milk, 1.5 TBS vegetable oil, 1 TBS peanut butter. Add and mix each set. Microwave 1 minute 10 seconds. The cup will be hot.
User avatar
NormoftheAndes
Posts: 129
Joined: Fri Nov 04, 2016 4:00 am

Re: Season 4? Or is it over after this?

Postby NormoftheAndes » Sat Mar 07, 2020 11:24 pm

AXX°N N. wrote:
NormoftheAndes wrote:I am often surprised when people declare that The Return is about nostalgia or deals with such concepts as time as it sounds so vague to me and also I'm just not convinced. I don't think it is significantly ABOUT such a concept although it certainly deals with how much time has passed since 1992.

I don't see how it can be denied. There's so much to point to, but one need only bring up Audrey's scenes. She's not where we would have ever envisioned her in terms of where her life ended up, something feels wrong about it, and about her, almost pathologically. And then when she finally arrives at the Roadhouse, she walks in extremely, visibly vulnerable as a song is playing, the lyrics rather overtly about lost opportunities by way of aging. She then does the most Audrey thing yet, a literal repeat of her dance, but something once again feels wrong about it, to the point we question what reality or lack thereof is at work.

It's not just that the 25 year interim is treated as a plot point. It's thematic.


A more over-riding theme of The Return then is surely mental illness? Audrey is clearly someone suffering great anxiety, depressive illness and I don't know what else. Undoubtedly time plays a huge part in that progressing but we only get glimpses in s3. Whilst I am happy to hear supernatural explanations for everything, it seems to me most likely that Agent Cooper himself has definitely suffered his own breakdown. So many of the characters throughout The Return are all suffering their own individual crises and mental troubles. Do they all relate to each other on a supernatural plane somehow also? Yes, absolutely. On some supernatural plane I think there is still the 'golden age' of Twin Peaks that Lynch has spoken of (Cahiers du Cinema interview) - the one many of us probably wanted to enjoy - where we could see Coop enjoy some pie in the Double R without a child shooting the place up. Some cool 50s-styled tune playing on the jukebox, modern yet retro. Nostalgia is great when it works and is possible but season 3 definitely dealt with something dark taking over the more innocent aspects of Twin Peaks that we enjoyed before.
LateReg
Posts: 1000
Joined: Sun May 10, 2015 5:19 pm

Re: Season 4? Or is it over after this?

Postby LateReg » Sun Mar 08, 2020 8:28 am

AXX°N N. wrote:
NormoftheAndes wrote:I am often surprised when people declare that The Return is about nostalgia or deals with such concepts as time as it sounds so vague to me and also I'm just not convinced. I don't think it is significantly ABOUT such a concept although it certainly deals with how much time has passed since 1992.

I don't see how it can be denied. There's so much to point to, but one need only bring up Audrey's scenes. She's not where we would have ever envisioned her in terms of where her life ended up, something feels wrong about it, and about her, almost pathologically. And then when she finally arrives at the Roadhouse, she walks in extremely, visibly vulnerable as a song is playing, the lyrics rather overtly about lost opportunities by way of aging. She then does the most Audrey thing yet, a literal repeat of her dance, but something once again feels wrong about it, to the point we question what reality or lack thereof is at work.

It's not just that the 25 year interim is treated as a plot point. It's thematic.


Right. I'm also surprised that it can be denied. It's frequently on the surface: "is it future or is it past?", "what year is this?", etc. As Norm poignantly points out, mental illness and illness and just deterioration or rot in general is also a major factor in The Return, factors that also coincide directly with the toll of time; like so much of The Return, the themes are intertwined, layered, working in unison to create a whole-feeling experience that can wash over you and simultaneously contain many individual levels to explore. The Audrey roadhouse scene may be about mental illness but it's also certainly about time and aging and the inability to reclaim former glory as the "Running Out of Sand" lyrics suggest and the dance itself (arguably) proves as it wrestles directly with nostalgia. While I really like Norm's ideas about the series and what they add to my understanding, I just don't see what there is to debate about the series' being heavily about time and nostalgia. It's overwhelmingly about those things on a thematic level. I've probably written over a hundred thousand words on the details of both myself lol, but I've now stayed away from a rewatch for two years so I can't get in-depth again at the moment, especially in this thread. But to me, this isn't vague, and it is overwhelmingly powerful.

Which very much makes me wonder what the overarching undercurrent of Season 4 would be/feel like. Will it still be about aging and death? Will time still play a factor, carrying directly over from The Return's mood and plot points, even though there will only be a 5 year gap between seasons?
User avatar
Jerry Horne
Posts: 4515
Joined: Mon Jan 22, 2007 9:28 pm
Location: Private Portland Airport
Contact:

Re: Season 4? Or is it over after this?

Postby Jerry Horne » Tue Mar 10, 2020 10:58 am

...
Attachments
Screen Shot 2020-03-10 at 10.57.40 AM.png
Screen Shot 2020-03-10 at 10.57.40 AM.png (68.52 KiB) Viewed 2203 times
User avatar
krishnanspace
Posts: 1009
Joined: Wed Nov 18, 2015 5:15 am

Re: Season 4? Or is it over after this?

Postby krishnanspace » Tue Mar 10, 2020 11:19 am

That’s interesting. Hasn’t Laura worked on a Netflix production earlier?
LateReg
Posts: 1000
Joined: Sun May 10, 2015 5:19 pm

Re: Season 4? Or is it over after this?

Postby LateReg » Tue Mar 10, 2020 11:23 am

krishnanspace wrote:That’s interesting. Hasn’t Laura worked on a Netflix production earlier?


They both have. Dern for the film Marriage Story and Watts for the short-lived, poorly reviewed drama series Gypsy.

Return to “Twin Peaks Movie, TV, Books”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 44 guests