Season 4? Or is it over after this?

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Rainwater
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Re: Season 4? Or is it over after this?

Postby Rainwater » Fri Oct 18, 2019 7:18 am

I'm sure there are some deleted scenes. Whether we'll ever see them is a different matter. Took 20 years for The Missing Pieces, and Lynch probably only did it as a lead-in to S3.
A whole season shot in secret? Nah
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bob_wooler
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Re: Season 4? Or is it over after this?

Postby bob_wooler » Fri Oct 18, 2019 8:47 am

Just to be pedantic, did S Sutherland say "Everything was used" or "everything was used for season 3"?
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Re: Season 4? Or is it over after this?

Postby BGate » Fri Oct 18, 2019 10:11 am

The Missing Pieces took so long to come out for legal/money/time and effort reasons, not bc Lynch didn't want people to see them. I don't see why any significant deleted scenes or extended/alternate takes wouldn't been included on any of the now three separate blu ray releases that contain S3.
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Re: Season 4? Or is it over after this?

Postby Rainwater » Fri Oct 18, 2019 10:47 am

I don't see why it's a natural assumption that he'd want to release them.
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Mr. Reindeer
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Re: Season 4? Or is it over after this?

Postby Mr. Reindeer » Fri Oct 18, 2019 10:56 am

Rainwater wrote:I don't see why it's a natural assumption that he'd want to release them.


Lynch has historically been very much inclined to release deleted scenes for his films whenever feasible, in several cases going to great lengths to locate and restore material. Barring some conspiracy about a top-secret S4, which I don’t buy, it would be out of character for Lynch to sit on deleted scenes from TP:TR, particularly given how transparent and generous he’s been with behind the scenes footage. I just think there really isn’t much that was unused.
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Re: Season 4? Or is it over after this?

Postby LateReg » Fri Oct 18, 2019 1:43 pm

Jonah wrote:But The Return was 18 hours, originally supposed to be 9. You don't get the feeling much was held back. There could definitely be some additional scenes/footage, maybe even a couple of hours, as with FWWM and Inland Empire. I don't think that much could exist either, but it's possible. But that would be the most, I think. I highly doubt enough footage for a whole additional season or mini-season exists. There simply wasn't enough time to shoot it.


Have we ever actually received ACTUAL confirmation that the series was truly originally supposed to be 9 hours? This is still a major gray area as far as I know. Some have speculated (rightly, imo) that part of the dispute was over time because Showtime couldn't understand how 15 pages of script could occasionally turn out to be 60 minutes of film, and that Lynch wanted that freedom to pace the thing how he wanted, to write more as he went, and to determine the length in the editing room. That sweeping scene, for example, is not just "oh I shot this and I have the time to include it!" to me, but actually integral to the way The Return is meant to operate, as important as any plot elements.
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Re: Season 4? Or is it over after this?

Postby LateReg » Fri Oct 18, 2019 1:55 pm

bosguy1981 wrote:Remember Lynch exploding in the behind the scenes Season 3 footage: "I'm NOT WORKING this way again, EVER! THIS IS HORRIBLE!"

I think he meant it. I don't think Lynch would ever again spend years writing a script, only to then spend months (a couple years?) negotiating over money, money, money, then completely walk away from the project only to be lured back after Sabrina did the rest of the negotiating. And even then, he was still tied down to a tight production schedule that caused him grief, and caused him to specifically warn Sabrina and others that he'll never do it again. I don't think he said that because he DIDN'T mean it.

So really, I think coming back would require Showtime's people to go to Lynch and say "If we give you X amount of money and X weeks of filming, would you work with us again?" I doubt it's EVER done this way, (essentially a blank check for David Lynch to do... Something about Twin Peaks) and THAT is why it's highly unlikely more Twin Peaks will happen.


I actually see this in the exact same yet somewhat opposite/more optimistic way. I think Lynch saying that and then allowing his candidness to be included on the Blu-ray actually bodes well for a future season. I've adopted others' opinions that it basically serves as leverage for a future season. IF I DO THIS, IT HAS TO BE THIS WAY. The word is already out there, and now that Lynch has produced an acclaimed product on time (after not working in the studio system for 15 years), Showtime would be more willing to give the man what he needs. As you said, the likelihood of that happening is up for debate, but I think the fact that Showtime knows that Lynch would want different working conditions bodes well for him actually getting them. That's what makes me most excited about the prospect for another season. Which, as I've said before, I suspect would be more concise and also more highly budgeted. I also think that the acclaim that Part 8 received could also help Showtime to fork over more cash, since that episode, by design/necessity, had the most incredible production value.
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Re: Season 4? Or is it over after this?

Postby mtwentz » Fri Oct 18, 2019 2:48 pm

As far as Showtime forking over more cash...it's hard to say.

What is a prestige show worth? What alternatives do they currently have in the pipeline?

I do think the lack of awards was a fairly major blow to the chances of Season 4. Of course, what the hell do I know, I"m hardly someone who is an expert in the entertainment industry...but it seemed a lot of Showtime's hopes were on critical acclaim, buzz and awards. TP got the first two, but fizzled out on number 3.

If Twin Peaks had won best episode for the Emmys, or Lynch had won best director, I'd feel a lot better about our chances. (Not that I don't feel good about them now)
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Re: Season 4? Or is it over after this?

Postby N. Needleman » Fri Oct 18, 2019 2:55 pm

Jerry Horne wrote:Since we're going down the rabbit hole...let's not forget that Lynch has already concieved a special feature (Between Two Worlds) that has actors in character. Maybe they filmed something new like that and wanted that location.


This was my first thought weeks ago, yes. But even if that is revealed I also think more yet is coming.
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Re: Season 4? Or is it over after this?

Postby Rudagger » Fri Oct 18, 2019 3:13 pm

LateReg wrote:
Jonah wrote:But The Return was 18 hours, originally supposed to be 9. You don't get the feeling much was held back. There could definitely be some additional scenes/footage, maybe even a couple of hours, as with FWWM and Inland Empire. I don't think that much could exist either, but it's possible. But that would be the most, I think. I highly doubt enough footage for a whole additional season or mini-season exists. There simply wasn't enough time to shoot it.


Have we ever actually received ACTUAL confirmation that the series was truly originally supposed to be 9 hours? This is still a major gray area as far as I know. Some have speculated (rightly, imo) that part of the dispute was over time because Showtime couldn't understand how 15 pages of script could occasionally turn out to be 60 minutes of film, and that Lynch wanted that freedom to pace the thing how he wanted, to write more as he went, and to determine the length in the editing room. That sweeping scene, for example, is not just "oh I shot this and I have the time to include it!" to me, but actually integral to the way The Return is meant to operate, as important as any plot elements.


Sutherland indicated as such in my response to a question along those lines during her Reddit AMA. That is to say, the script didn't really expand, it was just a wild difference of opinion between Lynch/Showtime on how long the episodes would run based on the existing script. I can easily see how on the page, something like Part 8 would seem like 20 minutes of material rather than 50 minutes. Or most scenes in fact, if shot more conventionally would probably run half the length (think stuff that's very deliberately paced like the Glass Box sequence).

However, the initial announcement absolutely specifically stated '9 episodes': https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nNHsA4WIFvc But, there's still a ton of fuzz as to why the announcement even happened the way it did (why announce it before Lynch actually signed his contracts, why wouldn't this all have been sorted when Maclachlan, the other indispensable part alongside Frost, signed on? Why did they ever have this confusion? Perhaps when shopping the script they didn't know for sure Lynch would direct the entire thing, and so when Lynch put on his director's hat for the script breakdown's he realized the length? Or perhaps Lynch said 9, Showtime ran with it, and he realized he was wrong? Or Showtime just jumped the gun and assumed 9? Who the hell knows.

Anyway, as for the rest of this thread.

1) If it's anything other than a new season or film, it will be a disappointment to most of the fan base. That includes a one-off 'Between Two Worlds' thing which I found wholly underwhelming in a 'we got an afternoon, let's put something together' way. Another cast interview? I'm good. I got my fill of interviews and behind the scenes.

2) Deleted scenes: I 100% believe the vast majority of the material made it into the final cut. I don't believe the 'Season 3B' nonsense at all. I'll happily eat crow if I'm wrong, but, it seems like all the location shooting was accounted for in the final product, and based on the hectic schedule (and very long run length of the season, as well as variable episode length), I highly doubt Lynch felt the need to hack away much material. We do know there was some stuff toyed with, like The Fireman in the Red Room, but, if I were to hazard a guess, the only deleted stuff is alternate angles, errant dialogue, and probably some messing around during experimental sections (Red Room, Bob fight, stuff like that).

3) If there's any truth to the rumours, of which I hope there is, we won't hear about it until 2020, probably a month or two after the A-Z Box Set comes out to prevent a chilling effect on it's sales.
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Re: Season 4? Or is it over after this?

Postby Jonah » Fri Oct 18, 2019 3:21 pm

Why are they calling the boxset Z - A anyway? They already removed the word "complete" from the other boxset. Why the need to call this one Z - A, just in case there is more? Couldn't they have come up with a better or at least less definitive-sounding title? I understand a definitive title may help with sales, but it ultimately only pisses fans and collectors off if there's more.
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Re: Season 4? Or is it over after this?

Postby Mr. Reindeer » Fri Oct 18, 2019 5:55 pm

LateReg wrote:
Jonah wrote:But The Return was 18 hours, originally supposed to be 9. You don't get the feeling much was held back. There could definitely be some additional scenes/footage, maybe even a couple of hours, as with FWWM and Inland Empire. I don't think that much could exist either, but it's possible. But that would be the most, I think. I highly doubt enough footage for a whole additional season or mini-season exists. There simply wasn't enough time to shoot it.


Have we ever actually received ACTUAL confirmation that the series was truly originally supposed to be 9 hours? This is still a major gray area as far as I know. Some have speculated (rightly, imo) that part of the dispute was over time because Showtime couldn't understand how 15 pages of script could occasionally turn out to be 60 minutes of film, and that Lynch wanted that freedom to pace the thing how he wanted, to write more as he went, and to determine the length in the editing room. That sweeping scene, for example, is not just "oh I shot this and I have the time to include it!" to me, but actually integral to the way The Return is meant to operate, as important as any plot elements.


That was my understanding too. Similar to the way AFI famously thought they were financing a short, not a feature, based on the length of the Eraserhead script (which was under 20 pages IIRC). We know TP:TR was delivered as one long script with no episode breaks, so the reader would presumably be left to draw his/her own conclusions re: length. Lynch’s budget was based on the reality of what he had in his head; Showtime’s was based on an assumption.
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Re: Season 4? Or is it over after this?

Postby Jonah » Sat Oct 19, 2019 8:40 am

Probably nothing, but not only was this tweeted/shared by Kyle, it was then retweeted almost instantly by Mark Frost.
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Re: Season 4? Or is it over after this?

Postby Jonah » Sat Oct 19, 2019 8:43 am

Also, from yesterday....

(Again, probably nothing, just an anniversary tweet - but I thought the use of "these" was interesting, as opposed to "those".)
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Re: Season 4? Or is it over after this?

Postby moonmadness76 » Sat Oct 19, 2019 4:55 pm

I also recall a number of interviews given by Mark Frost in around 2014 that stated the "we" (assuming he meant himself and David) came up with the number 9 because it was the amount of time needed to tell the story. I think he even said in one that they wanted to mirror the 9 hours of the original series (2 hour pilot + 7 one-hour episodes). But, I think this was before the script was finished.

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