what is canon to you and why?

Discussion of Twin Peaks and Fire Walk With Me

Moderators: Annie, BookhouseBoyBob, Ross, Jerry Horne, Brad D

Forum rules
Welcome to the forum. We know our members are passionate about their love for all things Twin Peaks. You wouldn't be here if that wasn't the case. Despite having differing viewpoints it is a policy that we all treat each other with mutual respect.

Posting abusive, obscene, vulgar, slanderous, hateful, threatening, sexually-orientated, or any material that may violate any laws be it of your country or the country where this forum is hosted will get you permanently banned.

Posting of spoilers are allowed as long as you indicate (Spoilers) in the topic name and use the Spoiler Tag.
claaa7
Posts: 638
Joined: Sun Oct 19, 2014 2:47 am

what is canon to you and why?

Postby claaa7 » Thu Jun 08, 2017 11:08 pm

this will probably be a different answer for mnay people, and could make for a good discussion.. i'm sorry if this has been posted before but here goes my interpretation for what is canon and why.

1. Twin Peaks: The Pilot (the 90 minutes verssion)
2. Twin Peaks: The Pilot's international ending (this is debatable, but i see it as the unedited dream sequence of Episode 2 and in that context it works as Dale tells all of this ending in Episode 3 to Lucy and Andy, something that's very strange if you haven't seen or know about that ending. the intention was definitely to have the whole thing play out as a dream but without cuts to Dale sleeping so it only would be at the end he would wake up. Again this is debatable as canon, but i include it but it could go).
3. Twin Peaks: Season 1 (of course)
4. Twin Peaks: Season 2 (someone might try to argue for a retcon that everything after a certain point don't need to be seen as canon but with that I strongly disagree, EVERYTHING with Evelyn Marsh, Little Nicky, everything there is canon, no question... and of course the Beauty Pagan that Lana Millford won)
5. Twin Peaks: Fire Walk With Me
6. The Log Lady intros (directed and written by Lynch, scored by Angelo)

7. Notice that all of this is included in The Entire Mystery Blu-Ray, i think you could make a case for the delted scenes of the series being Canon then but i'm not sure i'm willing to stretch that far, but perhaps the ones that were color trimmed and remastered to HD - they doesn't contradict the events in any way).

The Missing Pieces is definitely canon for me at this point though. It's made up as a weird movie on its own with new special effects, new music, etc. It was a precursor to The Return in a way. Same undertitles font for Deer Meadow and all that as would be used in The Return. And lines like "Is it Future or is it Past" and of course the whole Philip Jeffries / Buenos Aires thing can only be known as part of The Missing Pieces. so they use that as storytelling in the new series.

8. Mark Frost - The Secret History of Twin Peaks - (Although it does have things that don't add up from the original series in the same way that "Secret Diary" and "My Life, My Tapes" does i feel this is very different), it seems to be something larger at play with this and the fact that it was written by Mark Frost makes it canon for sure for me.

9. Twin Peaks: The Return.... Of course! That's it for me!



How about you? Would you include "Secret Diary" and the other earlier books.. Would you perhaps not include The Missing Pieces, etc. Discuss.
KyleRickards
Posts: 205
Joined: Tue May 23, 2017 2:39 am

Re: what is canon to you and why?

Postby KyleRickards » Fri Jun 09, 2017 2:59 am

I'm just working through the box set and would agree everything you've listed is canon. What I found interesting was the last Log Lady intro for the final episode where it's clearly alluding to the doppelgängers...


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
claaa7
Posts: 638
Joined: Sun Oct 19, 2014 2:47 am

Re: what is canon to you and why?

Postby claaa7 » Fri Jun 09, 2017 5:54 am

KyleRickards wrote:I'm just working through the box set and would agree everything you've listed is canon. What I found interesting was the last Log Lady intro for the final episode where it's clearly alluding to the doppelgängers...


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


So many gems.. I love the one for episode 9 and many more
User avatar
PsychoFox
Posts: 40
Joined: Sun Nov 13, 2016 2:51 pm
Location: Paris
Contact:

Re: what is canon to you and why?

Postby PsychoFox » Fri Jun 09, 2017 7:09 am

For now, The Missing Pieces are canon, and we can see it in the 3rd season first 5 episodes:

- Mike asking "Is it future, or is it past ?" like the Man From Another Place in TMP,
- References to Argentina,
- Marvin Rosand, (cook Toad) is marked as a "returning actor" in the list of 217, and he only appeared in TMP before,
- The golden oyster-shape console in the red room. I don't think we saw it before TMP ?
Burns's Suite
Posts: 19
Joined: Fri Nov 18, 2016 7:19 am

Re: what is canon to you and why?

Postby Burns's Suite » Fri Jun 09, 2017 7:20 am

PsychoFox wrote: The golden oyster-shape console in the red room. I don't think we saw it before TMP ?

Actually you can see it in some of the background shots of episode 29, the one that jumps to mind most is when Windom Earle confroms Cooper in the Red Room.

Never realised this until my third watch.
User avatar
Mr. Reindeer
Posts: 1480
Joined: Mon Jan 26, 2015 4:09 pm

Re: what is canon to you and why?

Postby Mr. Reindeer » Fri Jun 09, 2017 8:59 am

For me, the old and new series and FWWM are definitive canon. TMP is as well, except where it directly contradicts the series/FWWM (aside from the use of alternate takes of the same moments, the main thing that springs to mind is the Jeffries scene taking place in 1989, when the final FWWM edit retcons it to 1988. Yes, I know various in-world rationales have been proposed by fans to cover this discrepancy.) Same for the series deleted scenes (including the ones from bootlegs): canon except where they contradict the actual series edits (e.g., Bobby and Shelly probably didn't have pretty much the same conversation about Shelly's pageant speech in two different locations in Episode 27).

The books and trading cards are deuterocanon -- I'll accept what they say as canon cautiously except/until contradicted, but I don't put as much stock in it as I do the main show and film.

I don't view the Log Lady intros as strictly canon because I have a hard time believing Margaret set up a camera in her cabin to shoot random abstract messages. But I do think they contain key insights into the mythology which are canon.
User avatar
Henrys Hair
Posts: 105
Joined: Tue Aug 07, 2007 10:28 am
Contact:

Re: what is canon to you and why?

Postby Henrys Hair » Fri Jun 09, 2017 9:39 am

What about Between Two Worlds?

I'm taking it as canon - Lynch & Frost must've been a fair way through writing the new series when BTW was put together.
User avatar
Mr. Reindeer
Posts: 1480
Joined: Mon Jan 26, 2015 4:09 pm

Re: what is canon to you and why?

Postby Mr. Reindeer » Fri Jun 09, 2017 10:01 am

Henrys Hair wrote:What about Between Two Worlds?

I'm taking it as canon - Lynch & Frost must've been a fair way through writing the new series when BTW was put together.


Knew I was forgetting something critical! This occupies the same space as the Log Lady intros for me. I don't believe that acclaimed director David Lynch (who looks uncannily like Gordon Cole) tapped into the afterlife and interviewed the Palmer family. However, I think all the information conveyed by the Palmers is relevant canon.
MasterMastermind
Posts: 115
Joined: Sat Mar 28, 2015 7:17 pm

Re: what is canon to you and why?

Postby MasterMastermind » Fri Jun 09, 2017 10:05 am

I don't worry overmuch about canon but everything on the blu-ray is a good start, and especially anything season three and TSHoTP doesn't cast aside.
claaa7
Posts: 638
Joined: Sun Oct 19, 2014 2:47 am

Re: what is canon to you and why?

Postby claaa7 » Fri Jun 09, 2017 11:34 am

Mr. Reindeer wrote:For me, the old and new series and FWWM are definitive canon. TMP is as well, except where it directly contradicts the series/FWWM (aside from the use of alternate takes of the same moments, the main thing that springs to mind is the Jeffries scene taking place in 1989, when the final FWWM edit retcons it to 1988. Yes, I know various in-world rationales have been proposed by fans to cover this discrepancy.) Same for the series deleted scenes (including the ones from bootlegs): canon except where they contradict the actual series edits (e.g., Bobby and Shelly probably didn't have pretty much the same conversation about Shelly's pageant speech in two different locations in Episode 27).

The books and trading cards are deuterocanon -- I'll accept what they say as canon cautiously except/until contradicted, but I don't put as much stock in it as I do the main show and film.

I don't view the Log Lady intros as strictly canon because I have a hard time believing Margaret set up a camera in her cabin to shoot random abstract messages. But I do think they contain key insights into the mythology which are canon.


yeah that Jeffries thing is a bit unfortunate, but i sitll think that the timeline in the film is slightly wrong and that this was in February 1989, rigtht before the murder of Laura. the only thing is that doesn't mesh with this happening similtaneously with Chefter Desmons disappperance. but you can't win them all.. in my own retcon Jeffries (just like in the book and FWWM script) appeared in early 1989.
User avatar
CuriousWoman
Posts: 90
Joined: Sat Jan 14, 2017 4:55 am
Location: Deep within the color red

Re: what is canon to you and why?

Postby CuriousWoman » Fri Jun 09, 2017 3:18 pm

I go the same way as the Dr Who community does: canon does not exist since even the creators hate this notion and refuse to give any. (I remember Frost stating in the Twin Peaks Unwrapped podcast that he never uses this word and I would be surprised to hear David Lynch ever using anything like canon for any of his works).

And so using this rule to try and not betray the creators intentions, every licensed narrative products meant to be in the main universe have the same validity. And they should also be non interactive : no board games allowed since every time you play it, it would have a different outcome.

I guess this would therefore include the TV-series, movie, international pilot ending, deleted or extended scenes, log lady intros, novels and audios but not interviews nor documentaries nor scripts nor bootleg deleted scenes nor board games nor parodies (SNL and Georgia coffee).

Yes, to me MLMT is as canon as FWWM, even though they are contradictory but the movie contradicts the main series already anyway.

In the Frost podcast interview, he even states that to him the Twin Peaks universe is broad enough to encompass anything they did.

The only things that imo remain debatable are :
Between Two Worlds and the Twin Peaks Fest Greeting since they have Lynch as himself and not the hearing-impaired Cole, so it arguably is not in the narrative universe.
The Collectible CardArt seem not to be a narrative source but they are also often written using the first tense.

Of course, the notion of canon is used only for a community to agree on what "actually" happened even if it is contradictory (like the Sherlock Holmes canon and even the Bible canon are). Since the OP question is about "canon", I tried to answer in the less subjective possible way.

My headcanon on the other hand is to try and find ways to make everything written above fit together but knowing that even the writers likely didn't think a lot about it, I don't try that much neither.
User avatar
Hockey Mask
Posts: 334
Joined: Mon Oct 05, 2015 3:31 pm

Re: what is canon to you and why?

Postby Hockey Mask » Fri Jun 09, 2017 4:31 pm

None of the books.
User avatar
Panapaok
Posts: 965
Joined: Wed Oct 07, 2015 9:07 am

Re: what is canon to you and why?

Postby Panapaok » Sat Jun 10, 2017 12:25 pm

The original series, FWWM and The Return. The rest is just supplementary material for me.
This is - excuse me - a damn fine cup of coffee.
User avatar
sylvia_north
Posts: 386
Joined: Tue Oct 25, 2016 1:41 pm

Re: what is canon to you and why?

Postby sylvia_north » Wed Jun 14, 2017 1:06 pm

I'd be happy if the discrepancies with FWWM and the Diary and the series, and the Autobiography and FWWM are going to be explained in some kind of clever mind-blowing quantum/Wizard of Oz way in the Return. Not expecting anything though. But they would have 25 years to retcon it, and make everything canon. Then I'd eat all my complaining words about the Return.

It's all canon to me :twisted:
i .. am .. not ... your... foot
User avatar
MoondogJR
Posts: 243
Joined: Sat Nov 01, 2014 6:13 am
Location: Belgium

Re: what is canon to you and why?

Postby MoondogJR » Thu Jun 15, 2017 4:03 am

For me the books are canon. Yes, there are A LOT of inconsistancies. But most of them I can 'filter out' in my mind.

But there's one that particularly bothers me since the new season is airing. I'll add a spoiler tag because of the place where this topic is.

Spoiler:
Tamara Preston receives the dossier (TSHOTP) in 2016. I think it's safe to say the show takes place in 2013 or 2014 (1989 Lucy is pregnant, Wally Brando is 24).
This doesn't make any sense, because it's clear to me that Tamara Preston reads the dossier before the events in season 3. Or am I misinterpreting something here? Please enlighten me! :)
It bothers me more than other continuity errors, because both works were made so close to each other by the two main show-creators working toghether and it seems odd Frost nor Lynch talked about this to each other.
"Your log and I are on the same page."

Return to “Twin Peaks”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Yahoo [Bot] and 17 guests