Blue Rose...Blue Dye
Moderators: Brad D, Annie, Jonah, BookhouseBoyBob, Ross, Jerry Horne
- Juan Franela
- New Member
- Posts: 17
- Joined: Fri Jan 26, 2007 9:42 pm
- Location: Bloomington, IN
- Contact:
Blue Rose...Blue Dye
I've always been intrigued by Agent Desmond's remark about the Teresa Banks murder being one of Gordon's 'blue rose' cases. I don't know that this will ever be explained, but last night while watching the episode during which Cooper discovers the letter 'B' under Ronette's fingernail, it struck me for the first time that her IV bag was blue. Albert even comments, "It looks like dye". Coincidence? Probably. Regardless, it was the first time I'd ever seen the color blue (instead of red...as in the Red Room) tied to BOB besides the blue rose.
"Every day, once a day, give yourself a present."
-
- New Member
- Posts: 22
- Joined: Wed Mar 21, 2007 7:59 am
The blue rose seems to be something people wonder about but I always assumed it was a reference to "Project Blue Book."
It's not explicit, I guess, but I thought it was a simple signal that this is something supernatural or alien or spiritual or whatever you want to call it. Basically, "Cooper, this is an X-File."
I figure you can either assume it's that or speculate endlessly since no answer is forthcoming from David Lynch. I've chosen to do the former...
It's not explicit, I guess, but I thought it was a simple signal that this is something supernatural or alien or spiritual or whatever you want to call it. Basically, "Cooper, this is an X-File."
I figure you can either assume it's that or speculate endlessly since no answer is forthcoming from David Lynch. I've chosen to do the former...
Blue rose
My favourite take on the blue rose comes from one Trichome, who has posted on alt-tv.twin-peaks for years. He's a bit of a crotchety old bugger at times, but he's always an interesting read (and I suspect he wouldn't object to the characterization).
Anyway, in his view, the blue rose simply represents Laura. As different as the tone is between FWWM and the series, the film in many ways does return to the roots of the series. The signature shot for the first season must surely be that body, dead, wrapped in plastic. So what better reference could the film make to its origins than that simple, beautiful shot of the blue rose - a visual metaphor for the would-be homecoming queen, cold and cyanotic, lying on the shore, wrapped like the bouquet of flowers she was never presented because of her premature death.
I have no other evidence for this to be the case, but it seems so fitting and right that I've come to hold it as true.
Anyway, in his view, the blue rose simply represents Laura. As different as the tone is between FWWM and the series, the film in many ways does return to the roots of the series. The signature shot for the first season must surely be that body, dead, wrapped in plastic. So what better reference could the film make to its origins than that simple, beautiful shot of the blue rose - a visual metaphor for the would-be homecoming queen, cold and cyanotic, lying on the shore, wrapped like the bouquet of flowers she was never presented because of her premature death.
I have no other evidence for this to be the case, but it seems so fitting and right that I've come to hold it as true.
-
- New Member
- Posts: 22
- Joined: Wed Mar 21, 2007 7:59 am
That's a nice and poetic explanation but it really doesn't deal with the context as presented in FWWM.
It seems pretty clear that a "Blue Rose Case" is a certain kind of case. As I said above, my take is that it either involved the supernatural (ie an X File) in general or Project Blue Book (also an X File, I guess) in particular.
But saying it represents Laura, who won't be killed until a year after Chet Desmond (who knows what a blue rose means) has been gone for a year...I dunno.
On the other hand, this is David Lynch's world we're talking about.
It seems pretty clear that a "Blue Rose Case" is a certain kind of case. As I said above, my take is that it either involved the supernatural (ie an X File) in general or Project Blue Book (also an X File, I guess) in particular.
But saying it represents Laura, who won't be killed until a year after Chet Desmond (who knows what a blue rose means) has been gone for a year...I dunno.
On the other hand, this is David Lynch's world we're talking about.
*Spoilers*
> David Lynch's world
This.
I concede that your explanation makes a great deal more logical sense than mine (or rather, Trichome's). But really - is Lynch a literalist? Or an abstract artist?
I never really bought into the idea that Bob was a literal spirit from another world (?); I think it was intended metaphorically - in my view, L *was* personally responsible for L's death.
Look at the events, for instance, towrds the end of episode 14. Does any of that make any literal sense at all? Bobby's sudden sense of something horribly sad? Coop looking lost and not understanding? Donna bursting into tears? I put the rose in the same context - an image that resonates far more strongly as an abstraction than literally.
This.
I concede that your explanation makes a great deal more logical sense than mine (or rather, Trichome's). But really - is Lynch a literalist? Or an abstract artist?
I never really bought into the idea that Bob was a literal spirit from another world (?); I think it was intended metaphorically - in my view, L *was* personally responsible for L's death.
Look at the events, for instance, towrds the end of episode 14. Does any of that make any literal sense at all? Bobby's sudden sense of something horribly sad? Coop looking lost and not understanding? Donna bursting into tears? I put the rose in the same context - an image that resonates far more strongly as an abstraction than literally.
-
- Roadhouse Member
- Posts: 87
- Joined: Thu Feb 01, 2007 7:43 pm
It's highly unlikely the blue rose and the blue dye are connected. In FWWM the emphasis is on new mysteries. DL doesn't even address the ritual aspect of Laura's killing (the mound of dirt, the scrap of paper, the heart necklace) and that's quite an important part of the series, so it's unlikely he'd return to something as (relatively) insignificant as the blue dye. The dye was most likely there to drive the narrative - Cooper had to be able to see the IV had been tampered with, otherwise how would he know?
David Lynch wrote in Catching The Big Fish that he has no idea what the blue box and the key in Mulholland Drive mean. The blue rose stays with you after the film has finished and you can spend hours daydreaming about it. I think that's the significance of the blue rose - I don't believe it's there to torment us.
My own interpretation of the blue rose is that it's symbolic of the supernatural. An essay in WIP argued it's a link between Cooper and Chet Desmond (his dream self).
David Lynch wrote in Catching The Big Fish that he has no idea what the blue box and the key in Mulholland Drive mean. The blue rose stays with you after the film has finished and you can spend hours daydreaming about it. I think that's the significance of the blue rose - I don't believe it's there to torment us.
My own interpretation of the blue rose is that it's symbolic of the supernatural. An essay in WIP argued it's a link between Cooper and Chet Desmond (his dream self).
-
- New Member
- Posts: 15
- Joined: Sun Apr 15, 2007 3:00 am
- eyeboogers
- Great Northern Member
- Posts: 729
- Joined: Sat Jan 20, 2007 3:35 am
- Location: Copenhagen, Denmark
- Contact:
...
Well since R.Engels stated that the plot in future TP films would revolve around returning the spirits to their own world (something about Truman driving really fast through a corn field) the inhabiting spirit part probably wasn't all metaphor.
-
- New Member
- Posts: 22
- Joined: Wed Mar 21, 2007 7:59 am
I think Fatso and FaceintheLeaves are on the same page as me.
I should have ended my original theory with the Lynch caveat, "...if there is any explanation at all."
What's complicated about much of his work is that some mysteries in his work do have answers (who killed Laura? what the hell is going in Mulholland Drive?) and some just ARE.
I don't know if the Blue Rose has an answer but IF it does, I'm going with the supernatural thing. I'll let someone else try to ponder if there is a connection between the rose and the dye and/or the key and box in Mulholland Drive...
I should have ended my original theory with the Lynch caveat, "...if there is any explanation at all."
What's complicated about much of his work is that some mysteries in his work do have answers (who killed Laura? what the hell is going in Mulholland Drive?) and some just ARE.
I don't know if the Blue Rose has an answer but IF it does, I'm going with the supernatural thing. I'll let someone else try to ponder if there is a connection between the rose and the dye and/or the key and box in Mulholland Drive...
Whether or not Lynch consciously thought of this whilst filming FWWM...
From wikipedia..(althought I have also read it in more reliable places!)
"Blue roses traditionally signify mystery or attaining the impossible. They are believed to be able to grant the owner youth or grant wishes. This symbolism derives from the rose's meaning in the language of flowers common in Victorian times."
Also:-
"A blue rose appears in David Lynch's film Twin Peaks: Fire Walk with Me. It is seen pinned to a red dress worn by a 'dancing girl' called 'Lil' who appears at a briefing attended by two FBI agents, which their boss, Gordon Cole (played by Lynch himself) has summoned them to. The way that Lil is dressed and her actions symbolise different aspects of the case they are about to take on. The visual clues are subsequently explained by special agent Chester Desmond, to his new partner Sam Stanley. However, he is unable to say anything about the blue rose.
Like many aspects of Lynch's films, the meaning of the blue rose remains a mystery."
I always thought it was symbolic of mystery, the impossible and the down-right illogical. I believe until about 5 years ago no one had managed to grow a purely Blue rose. Therefore, when FWWM was filmed..it was the impossible.
It's up to us to wonder whether Lynch knew this consciously, or like many of his other symbols, it's more about his intuition and creative side.
From wikipedia..(althought I have also read it in more reliable places!)
"Blue roses traditionally signify mystery or attaining the impossible. They are believed to be able to grant the owner youth or grant wishes. This symbolism derives from the rose's meaning in the language of flowers common in Victorian times."
Also:-
"A blue rose appears in David Lynch's film Twin Peaks: Fire Walk with Me. It is seen pinned to a red dress worn by a 'dancing girl' called 'Lil' who appears at a briefing attended by two FBI agents, which their boss, Gordon Cole (played by Lynch himself) has summoned them to. The way that Lil is dressed and her actions symbolise different aspects of the case they are about to take on. The visual clues are subsequently explained by special agent Chester Desmond, to his new partner Sam Stanley. However, he is unable to say anything about the blue rose.
Like many aspects of Lynch's films, the meaning of the blue rose remains a mystery."
I always thought it was symbolic of mystery, the impossible and the down-right illogical. I believe until about 5 years ago no one had managed to grow a purely Blue rose. Therefore, when FWWM was filmed..it was the impossible.
It's up to us to wonder whether Lynch knew this consciously, or like many of his other symbols, it's more about his intuition and creative side.
Re: *Spoilers*
One of the best cinematic moments of the whole series. I hate using the word "pathos" as it makes me sound pretentious, but it's very relevant here.garethw wrote:Look at the events, for instance, towrds the end of episode 14. Does any of that make any literal sense at all? Bobby's sudden sense of something horribly sad? Coop looking lost and not understanding? Donna bursting into tears?
Re: *Spoilers*
I completely agree with you there, leopheard. It's partly why I'm resistant to the theory on another thread that Coop's the real killer. The look of helplessness on his face as he feels the ring still missing from his finger, and Senor Droolcup pats his arm and says "I'm so sorry"- it's one of my favourite moments too, and if Coop really were the source of evil, it would kind of ruin those images for me.leopheard wrote:One of the best cinematic moments of the whole series. I hate using the word "pathos" as it makes me sound pretentious, but it's very relevant here.garethw wrote:Look at the events, for instance, towrds the end of episode 14. Does any of that make any literal sense at all? Bobby's sudden sense of something horribly sad? Coop looking lost and not understanding? Donna bursting into tears?
Re:
Completely agree, back in the day when I tried to find out about this I concluded the Blue Rose was along the lines of "something that couldn't happen naturally/in nature"...therefore the supernatural or "x-file" feel to it.iar wrote:I always thought it was symbolic of mystery, the impossible and the down-right illogical. I believe until about 5 years ago no one had managed to grow a purely Blue rose. Therefore, when FWWM was filmed..it was the impossible.
It's up to us to wonder whether Lynch knew this consciously, or like many of his other symbols, it's more about his intuition and creative side.
Re: Blue Rose...Blue Dye
Speaking of Blue Roses (7 years ago), there also appears to be a Blue Rose thing going on here, no?
- Attachments
-
- Brenda _ Heather in the Black Lodge.jpg (42.08 KiB) Viewed 15820 times
-
- annie.jpg (17.08 KiB) Viewed 15820 times
"OK, Bob. OK, BOB. OK." -Audrey Horne
Re: Blue Rose...Blue Dye
Never thought about that before.OK,Bob wrote:Speaking of Blue Roses (7 years ago), there also appears to be a Blue Rose thing going on here, no?
Tangentially related, and I don't think I've ever seen this come up - I'm always struck by how many flowers there are in the Palmer house in FWWM. Floral patterns are everywhere in that house...