"Do your palms ever itch?" All things Audrey

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Re: "Do your palms ever itch?" All things Audrey

Postby Audrey Horne » Wed May 17, 2017 9:52 pm

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Re: "Do your palms ever itch?" All things Audrey

Postby Audrey Horne » Fri Sep 01, 2017 10:07 am

bumping - because well, the season is ending... and um, I think it's safe to say Audrey was pretty important to discuss.
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Re: "Do your palms ever itch?" All things Audrey

Postby nonemoreblack » Sat Sep 02, 2017 2:22 am

I must admit it felt pretty good last week to get confirmation after the number of times Audrey's character has been dismissed. Something I've loved about her storyline in The Return is how she went back to what made her interesting in Season 1. I love Audrey, and I'm gonna miss her.

Here's hoping with the finale we'll have plenty more to discuss!
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Re: "Do your palms ever itch?" All things Audrey

Postby ThumbsUp » Tue Sep 05, 2017 6:26 am

Expectations subverted again!

While she didn't get any screen time in the last two episodes, I've made the case in other threads that Audrey remains a vital character that connects all the major players, locations and parallel universes or timelines - or "stories" as she, the Arm, Sarah Palmer and Charlie all refer to them.

I also think there were echoes back to earlier episodes in earlier seasons that loop back to Audrey Horne's fantastic analysis in this thread. Audrey is still trapped, in an even more warped version of a fairy tale.

In the original series, Coop was her knight in shining armor, who rescued her from a dark prison where her consciousness and grip on reality were ravaged - at One-Eyed Jack's, whose decor recalled the Black Lodge's and where Audrey's captors administered her heroin.

This time, the shadow self of that same knight takes her to a dark prison (the Convenience Store) where her consciousness and grip on reality are again warped beyond belief, this time for years, which is tragic.

The question is why she and the Arm both say the exact say thing about the girl who lives down the lane. Thoughts?
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Re: "Do your palms ever itch?" All things Audrey

Postby Audrey Horne » Mon Sep 11, 2017 4:58 pm

Gosh, weird that I don't really have any thoughts. Because Part 18 really only works for me as a cliffhanger. I can't really get behind or care about a Twilight Zone ending... if I did, it would just leave me apathetic.

However, in terms of Audrey's last appearance... I loved it so much. But again, only loved it as a cliffhanger. Whether or not it makes me a simpleton, I have never been more excited going into Parts 17 and 18 and largely because of the setup of Cooper and Audrey both waking up. Cooper was Cooper again, and Audrey shaking and staring into that mirror was (to me) instantly Audrey from twenty seven years ago.

The whole thing is open to whatever interpretation you want (obviously) but to me, what I loved about it... Audrey was able to assert herself, and remove herself to the imagined purgatory she was in with Charlie. She wakes up to a new hell, but now she is aware of it. To me, I think shesees is what her body and facereally looks like in that mirror. But she is in her own version of the Red Room/convenience store. When she gets over the shock, she would probably walk around it like Cooper does in the Red Room... maybe part a curtain and see herself in a hospital bed still in a coma, etc.

"The little girl who lived down the lane". I don't know. I like it... a lot (one of the few thins in the finale that worked for me) but I don't know. I don't even want to go down the route of collective dreamers ...because well, to me, it's a who cares. If it's a dream, then it negates because the dream is the reality of the story and we're back to square one. I do like though that Audrey still perseveres and gets to the next level of getting out of the trap she's been in for twenty five years.
God, I love this music. Isn't it too dreamy?
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Re: "Do your palms ever itch?" All things Audrey

Postby Manwith » Mon Sep 11, 2017 7:04 pm

ThumbsUp wrote:Expectations subverted again!


The question is why she and the Arm both say the exact say thing about the girl who lives down the lane. Thoughts?


I don't think there's really an answer. But I think the little girl who lives down the lane could be either Laura Palmer or Audrey, they've become David Lynch victim girls, raped and maybe murdered, women in trouble. The line could refer to either of them, they both have bad endings. There's some hope that they can come back to life and their story doesn't end there, but as Charlie said maybe that is the end of their story.
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Re: "Do your palms ever itch?" All things Audrey

Postby ThumbsUp » Mon Sep 11, 2017 7:14 pm

Audrey Horne wrote:I do like though that Audrey still perseveres and gets to the next level of getting out of the trap she's been in for twenty five years.


Somebody on Reddit pointed out that Audrey fell so far from getting her dream come true (that scene where she tells Donna in the toilets that Coop will whisk her away on a life of adventure and international intrigue). In a way... Audrey's life and future fit that. But in the most messed up way. Coop... as Mr. C... took her to the Convenience Store like he did Diane, and gave Audrey adventure, mystery and intrigue all right. Now Audrey has been trapped in this supernatural mind-dungeon for decades and it seems like she's only now figuring out how it works. The girl who always wanted more excitement than what reality offered finally got it... sigh, very sad, but that's why I was so invested and why the part 16 cliffhanger was such a good one for me.

Manwith wrote:
ThumbsUp wrote:Expectations subverted again!


The question is why she and the Arm both say the exact say thing about the girl who lives down the lane. Thoughts?


I don't think there's really an answer. But I think the little girl who lives down the lane could be either Laura Palmer or Audrey, they've become David Lynch victim girls, raped and maybe murdered, women in trouble. The line could refer to either of them, they both have bad endings. There's some hope that they can come back to life and their story doesn't end there, but as Charlie said maybe that is the end of their story.


"I knew Laura better than the rest." - Audrey in season 1. So many dark similarities. We see them with Audrey and Carrie in season 3.

I've also just realised something. I've mentioned both Audrey and Carrie wanting to grab coats and leaving, and how phones are ringing. And people have mentioned the dead guy in Carrie's. I wonder if that was her "Charlie"? Some Judy crony hellbent on her not leaving (as that would have helped Coop on his Judy-defeat quest). We already know that Audrey hated Charlie and issued her own violence against him when she choked him on the couch.
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Re: "Do your palms ever itch?" All things Audrey

Postby Audrey Horne » Mon Sep 11, 2017 8:42 pm

There's so much good material to possibly delve into... but the execution and end result is just really confounding to me.

I feel when drafting this, Lynch and Frost went back to the core of the character. John Justice Wheeler is erased. She's tied narratively back to Cooper, in fact only Coooer. And the fact that her situation at every step of the way is the opposite of her dreams keeps it on track to first season Audrey.

There were some rewrites with the character, and I can't go into what they were... but it had nothing to do with the plot structure of her and Mr. C having a child, and a child conceived through rape. But it is baffling to me why the outcome and themes of this weren't explored, since it mirrors Laura and Diane. Not in an intriguing way, of wanting to know more of the story mystery.... but instead wanting to only know more of behind the scenes what were they thinking way. As it stands with me, it seems more sadistic instead of thrilling with a satisfying payoff. (And interestingly enough, I think the Audrey character fares better with exploration than most of the other characters in the Return.)

Again, her story works for me if it was an intended cliffhanger, but as a button for an ending it, along with the rest (especially "what year is it?") is too Twilight Zone half hour short story, Gotcha! for me.

If it were an ending... and granted I would have hated it... the one thing I could see it tying it together (as vague as that is) is Audrey and Cooper going on that strange trip as Richard and Linda. Maybe Audrey and Diane change throughout (both dealing with rape from their dream man that they may have had to project that image of him to cope). Audrey, Annie, Diane, Laura, Caroline, Janey E...something needed to be streamlined here.

I know I've said it before, but for me Charlie works best as being Audrey herself... her brain, logic side that will help her through whatever horrific state she's in. I feel her character would be more coy with her language. She's blunt with Charlie, and I would think Audrey would probably most critical and blunt with herself, no need to be clever. When she chokes and states how much she hates him, she hates that side of her that is preventing her from moving on... her passionate side. I think that is reinforced by staring directly into his eyes declaring, "get me out of here!" And his eyes become her own staring back at herself in the mirror.
God, I love this music. Isn't it too dreamy?
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Re: "Do your palms ever itch?" All things Audrey

Postby Novalis » Tue Sep 12, 2017 4:54 am

ThumbsUp wrote:Expectations subverted again!

While she didn't get any screen time in the last two episodes, I've made the case in other threads that Audrey remains a vital character that connects all the major players, locations and parallel universes or timelines - or "stories" as she, the Arm, Sarah Palmer and Charlie all refer to them.

I also think there were echoes back to earlier episodes in earlier seasons that loop back to Audrey Horne's fantastic analysis in this thread. Audrey is still trapped, in an even more warped version of a fairy tale.

In the original series, Coop was her knight in shining armor, who rescued her from a dark prison where her consciousness and grip on reality were ravaged - at One-Eyed Jack's, whose decor recalled the Black Lodge's and where Audrey's captors administered her heroin.

This time, the shadow self of that same knight takes her to a dark prison (the Convenience Store) where her consciousness and grip on reality are again warped beyond belief, this time for years, which is tragic.

The question is why she and the Arm both say the exact say thing about the girl who lives down the lane. Thoughts?


It is a dark road to go down, but it's possible to see the Diane character, who is suddenly real in this season after being a dictaphone for so long (ambiguous deleted scenes notwithstanding), as a kind of fig-leaf or shoe-in for Audrey.

Their stories are, after all, similar: both raped by the doppelganger of the man they adored.

Knowing Lynch as we do, one can image a first draft, quickly vetoed by members of production, in which it was Audrey, and not Diane, that was imprisoned in the Naido form and subsequently sleeps with Cooper in the motel. This would no doubt have been flagged as tasteless and insane. Like I said, a dark road to go down. In this dark fantasy/hypothesis I'm having right now (and which I apologise for) over changed storylines, someone probably pointed back to the age difference and Cooper's reactions to naked Audrey in the original series, and the idea wasn't so much scrapped as saved by bringing in the new character of Diane.

I'm not saying this is what happened, but when you weigh up external factors -- Fenn's delay in signing on, the extraneous and inessential nature of the character Diane as Diane -- then this horrible suspicion gains some traction.

It would also explain why Audrey's actual character then has nowhere to go in the script, and why she is side-lined into her sidebar plot. She has a short story, trapped in a kind of narrative limbo fighting herself and not really knowing who she is or if she is. This can't be sustained for more than a few episodes obviously. In the end she starts to suspect she's not a real person at all, and her hallucinatory world becomes so unstable that it even breaks the fourth wall in calling out the name of a musical piece from the Twin Peaks soundtrack in our world: 'Audrey's Dance'. She goes with it for a short while -- why not, there's nothing else happening for her -- but a sudden eruption of violence regarding relationships with people terrifies her and she pleads with Charlie (who in my mind is the reality principle that keeps resisting her attempts to make the hallucinatory bubble consistent and whole) for release. In doing so, she is pleading for 'an end' to this crazy, pocket narrative, this story that doesn't go anywhere but bends back into metafiction. Then we cut to Sherilyn/Audrey in a blank environment, astonished to see herself in a mirror. This blank unfurnished environment is exactly what you get after a story ends: blank pages. We're either offered a metaphysical glimpse of what happens to characters in Meinong's Jungle when their day is up or this is Sherilyn Fenn in some kind of representation of a non-diegetic dressing room. She's expelled from the story of Twin Peaks and finds herself on our side of the screen, so to speak (or, let us say, more precisely, an onscreen representation of our side of the screen -- which is necessarily blank and unknowable). Her face in the mirror lacks her characteristic Audrey make-up, and made to appear a lot less made-up, a 'naturalistic' look.

I'm so-so about all this. I'm not saying it's what I 100% believe is going on here; maybe 50-50; in fact I'm convinced that there is no one 'correct' version of events. I'm just throwing it out there as another bone to gnaw on.
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Re: "Do your palms ever itch?" All things Audrey

Postby chromereflectsimage » Tue Sep 12, 2017 6:28 am

ThumbsUp wrote:
Audrey Horne wrote:I do like though that Audrey still perseveres and gets to the next level of getting out of the trap she's been in for twenty five years.


Somebody on Reddit pointed out that Audrey fell so far from getting her dream come true (that scene where she tells Donna in the toilets that Coop will whisk her away on a life of adventure and international intrigue). In a way... Audrey's life and future fit that. But in the most messed up way. Coop... as Mr. C... took her to the Convenience Store like he did Diane, and gave Audrey adventure, mystery and intrigue all right. Now Audrey has been trapped in this supernatural mind-dungeon for decades and it seems like she's only now figuring out how it works. The girl who always wanted more excitement than what reality offered finally got it... sigh, very sad, but that's why I was so invested and why the part 16 cliffhanger was such a good one for me.

Manwith wrote:
ThumbsUp wrote:Expectations subverted again!


The question is why she and the Arm both say the exact say thing about the girl who lives down the lane. Thoughts?


I don't think there's really an answer. But I think the little girl who lives down the lane could be either Laura Palmer or Audrey, they've become David Lynch victim girls, raped and maybe murdered, women in trouble. The line could refer to either of them, they both have bad endings. There's some hope that they can come back to life and their story doesn't end there, but as Charlie said maybe that is the end of their story.


"I knew Laura better than the rest." - Audrey in season 1. So many dark similarities. We see them with Audrey and Carrie in season 3.

I've also just realised something. I've mentioned both Audrey and Carrie wanting to grab coats and leaving, and how phones are ringing. And people have mentioned the dead guy in Carrie's. I wonder if that was her "Charlie"? Some Judy crony hellbent on her not leaving (as that would have helped Coop on his Judy-defeat quest). We already know that Audrey hated Charlie and issued her own violence against him when she choked him on the couch.

There may be something to this. The Little Girl Who Lives Down the Lane is a story about a girl who becomes a murderer to avoid abuse. I saw Charlie as a mixture of Ben, Mr C and the Superego in her head.
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Re: "Do your palms ever itch?" All things Audrey

Postby p-air » Tue Sep 12, 2017 10:29 am

My take: The Return - like Mulholland Drive and Inland Empire before it - is a reflection on filmmaking itself, aligned somewhat closer to reality than first appears. Audrey is "meta-Sherilyn" here.

(Purely per my own speculation) Beverly's discussion with her sick husband Tom was one of a handful of scenes originally scripted for Audrey. Charlie - scripted later - is a dramatization of the production's frustrated attempt to inflict this kind of material on Sherilyn.

Meta-Sherilyn - as we ourselves do at times - longs to relive the glory days of the past. But this is a delusion! The past has dictated the future and you can't go home again.
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Re: "Do your palms ever itch?" All things Audrey

Postby chromereflectsimage » Tue Sep 12, 2017 12:01 pm

Novalis wrote:
ThumbsUp wrote:Expectations subverted again!

While she didn't get any screen time in the last two episodes, I've made the case in other threads that Audrey remains a vital character that connects all the major players, locations and parallel universes or timelines - or "stories" as she, the Arm, Sarah Palmer and Charlie all refer to them.

I also think there were echoes back to earlier episodes in earlier seasons that loop back to Audrey Horne's fantastic analysis in this thread. Audrey is still trapped, in an even more warped version of a fairy tale.

In the original series, Coop was her knight in shining armor, who rescued her from a dark prison where her consciousness and grip on reality were ravaged - at One-Eyed Jack's, whose decor recalled the Black Lodge's and where Audrey's captors administered her heroin.

This time, the shadow self of that same knight takes her to a dark prison (the Convenience Store) where her consciousness and grip on reality are again warped beyond belief, this time for years, which is tragic.

The question is why she and the Arm both say the exact say thing about the girl who lives down the lane. Thoughts?


It is a dark road to go down, but it's possible to see the Diane character, who is suddenly real in this season after being a dictaphone for so long (ambiguous deleted scenes notwithstanding), as a kind of fig-leaf or shoe-in for Audrey.

Their stories are, after all, similar: both raped by the doppelganger of the man they adored.

Knowing Lynch as we do, one can image a first draft, quickly vetoed by members of production, in which it was Audrey, and not Diane, that was imprisoned in the Naido form and subsequently sleeps with Cooper in the motel. This would no doubt have been flagged as tasteless and insane. Like I said, a dark road to go down. In this dark fantasy/hypothesis I'm having right now (and which I apologise for) over changed storylines, someone probably pointed back to the age difference and Cooper's reactions to naked Audrey in the original series, and the idea wasn't so much scrapped as saved by bringing in the new character of Diane.

I'm not saying this is what happened, but when you weigh up external factors -- Fenn's delay in signing on, the extraneous and inessential nature of the character Diane as Diane -- then this horrible suspicion gains some traction.

It would also explain why Audrey's actual character then has nowhere to go in the script, and why she is side-lined into her sidebar plot. She has a short story, trapped in a kind of narrative limbo fighting herself and not really knowing who she is or if she is. This can't be sustained for more than a few episodes obviously. In the end she starts to suspect she's not a real person at all, and her hallucinatory world becomes so unstable that it even breaks the fourth wall in calling out the name of a musical piece from the Twin Peaks soundtrack in our world: 'Audrey's Dance'. She goes with it for a short while -- why not, there's nothing else happening for her -- but a sudden eruption of violence regarding relationships with people terrifies her and she pleads with Charlie (who in my mind is the reality principle that keeps resisting her attempts to make the hallucinatory bubble consistent and whole) for release. In doing so, she is pleading for 'an end' to this crazy, pocket narrative, this story that doesn't go anywhere but bends back into metafiction. Then we cut to Sherilyn/Audrey in a blank environment, astonished to see herself in a mirror. This blank unfurnished environment is exactly what you get after a story ends: blank pages. We're either offered a metaphysical glimpse of what happens to characters in Meinong's Jungle when their day is up or this is Sherilyn Fenn in some kind of representation of a non-diegetic dressing room. She's expelled from the story of Twin Peaks and finds herself on our side of the screen, so to speak (or, let us say, more precisely, an onscreen representation of our side of the screen -- which is necessarily blank and unknowable). Her face in the mirror lacks her characteristic Audrey make-up, and made to appear a lot less made-up, a 'naturalistic' look.

I'm so-so about all this. I'm not saying it's what I 100% believe is going on here; maybe 50-50; in fact I'm convinced that there is no one 'correct' version of events. I'm just throwing it out there as another bone to gnaw on.

I'm not sure that Diane isn't still a character inside Cooper's mind though, a projection/disassociation of his memories. There are too many similarities between Diane and Audrey's stories to be a coincidence. Let's not forget in the last episode of the original show he gets Annie and Caroline mixed up.
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Re: "Do your palms ever itch?" All things Audrey

Postby ThumbsUp » Mon Sep 25, 2017 3:38 pm

Hi all, wanted to slide back into this thread with some thoughts that have been marinating for the past couple weeks.

First, cheers to SF for a great performance.

Second, the more I think about it, the more I loved Audrey's season 3 arc. I liked it before, but I like it even more the more I contextualise it with all three seasons.

When I think about how bummed I was over the forced Audrey/Annie S2 shakeup, I think the Audrey character - while forcefully shoved from main plot line relevance due to behind the scenes drama - deserved something really special and I think her S3 treatment was actually great and fitting. The Audrey character was already relegated to the sidelines/periphery in S2, so her being in her own surreal confounding orbit in S3 almost capilalized on that and subverted it and owned the S2 misstep. But since she was such an important character for much of the series and was so well liked, it worked on that level as well - her arc in S3 was possibly the most talked about all summer.

Also, her dance! I mean cmon.

What do you guys think now that you've sat with it?
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Re: "Do your palms ever itch?" All things Audrey

Postby Audrey Horne » Thu Sep 28, 2017 1:01 pm

I don't think she was ever sidelined in season two... if anything was given too much screen time in a rather pedestrian storyline in order to provide time for her as a major fan favorite. But regardless.

I don't have any real thoughts about her story unless it's a cliffhanger. But that's how I feel about the new series as a whole.

But yes I will say I thought she was fantastic, and ironically probably aside from Kyle, in the end got the only really intriguing arc. Part 16 ended on such a high note for potential and excitement with both Cooper and Audrey waking up, that I'm more into just imagining where the story as a whole could've gone.
God, I love this music. Isn't it too dreamy?
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Re: "Do your palms ever itch?" All things Audrey

Postby ThumbsUp » Sun Oct 01, 2017 6:40 pm

Audrey Horne wrote:I don't think she was ever sidelined in season two... if anything was given too much screen time in a rather pedestrian storyline in order to provide time for her as a major fan favorite. But regardless.


Ah, sorry, that's what I meant. That she was intended to have a more central/romantic role with Cooper in S2 but got the other storyline instead.

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