"Do your palms ever itch?" All things Audrey

Discussion of Twin Peaks TV Series, Fire Walk With Me, and Books

Moderators: Annie, BookhouseBoyBob, Ross, Jerry Horne, Brad D

Forum rules
Welcome to the forum. We know our members are passionate about their love for all things Twin Peaks. You wouldn't be here if that wasn't the case. Despite having differing viewpoints it is a policy that we all treat each other with mutual respect.

Posting abusive, obscene, vulgar, slanderous, hateful, threatening, sexually-orientated, or any material that may violate any laws be it of your country or the country where this forum is hosted will get you permanently banned.

Posting of spoilers are allowed as long as you indicate (Spoilers) in the topic name and use the Spoiler Tag.
User avatar
Audrey Horne
Posts: 1953
Joined: Sat Apr 14, 2007 9:20 pm
Location: The Great Northern

Re: "Do your palms ever itch?" All things Audrey

Postby Audrey Horne » Sat Dec 11, 2010 9:25 pm

what a great post to read. Gets me excited to revisit this.

Honestly, I can't even remember what I've written about this over -gosh! -three years. I think this started because I was just so excited to find a site that was talking about Twin Peaks, and I had finally found people where I could share things that there wasn't an outlet for twenty years ago.

I think I also thought this would spring up threads about the other characters too.

I tentatively wrote a next installment like a year ago, but lost it -and then you know, life happens.

Of the top of my head, it roughly compared the end of the One-Eyed Jacks arc to Hitchcock's Notorious, and comparing and constrasting the noir touches to fairy tale elements. The interesing juxtaposition of what is one genre dealing with sex and desire, and one with innocence and hope. I know because Audrey isn't really featured in the episode, but moreso as the object Cooper and Truman have to rescue, it was more reflective about what had been up to that point in the story.


- when is Audrey the real self?
I know I've touched on this but can't remember the specifics. But love the exploration and discovery of when the public Audrey (the obvious coquette sex kitten posturing) is dropped for the private Audrey (crying while Leland dances comes to mind)

- relationship with Benjamin Horne (Laura as a factor)
Definitely deserves to be dealt with (2.06 seems like the right place, and then again after the murderer's identity is revealed) And the triangle between them and Cooper. Personally, one of the saddest loss of the scrapped storyline.

- Audrey and the Black Lodge: red drapes in OEJ, Giant's concern about Audrey, possible "powers" that Audrey possesses (telepathic aspects of her prayer - not only this scene is filmed that way, but I've always believed that the words "Cooper, Cooper, Cooper" shown to Dale by Major Briggs are Audrey's thoughts focused on her Special Agent). They all might be considered misinterpretations, and I think they pretty much are in terms of the canon plotline. But it doesn't mean these ideas couldn't be developed in that direction.

I could talk and talk for hours about this, and don't think it's just in the realm of fan fiction. Doubtful the creators knew how the second season would end, but clearly thought they were tying her into the Windom/Cooper plot, and Lynch was always interested in Audrey's power.

- Audrey = Jeffrey Beaumont of Twin Peaks - even deeper than just an innocent youth with good intentions discovering the evil and danger of adult world. Jeffrey failed to remain pure - he discovered his dark side (when he starts to beat Isabella Rossellini - hence the name "Jeffrey's Dark Side"). He even killed a man (well, he deserved it, but it's still pretty hard). In turn Audrey remains pure (well, the interrogation of Battis might be considered as a counterexample, but the whole situation is complex), just like she assures Cooper at the end of the eight episode.

Wow, actually sounds like you'd be much better than me at this one. I agree all the way.

- references to other work of arts ("The Notorious" reference is just great and obvious - nice spotting it)
I'm just glad someone knows that movie. I love so many films, but if a gun were held to my head and I had to pick one, this might be it.
God, I love this music. Isn't it too dreamy?
User avatar
B_M
Posts: 12
Joined: Sun Dec 05, 2010 3:49 pm

Re: "Do your palms ever itch?" All things Audrey

Postby B_M » Sun Dec 12, 2010 10:48 am

Audrey Horne wrote:Honestly, I can't even remember what I've written about this over -gosh! -three years.

Yeah, I'm freshly after rewatching the series so I don't have problems with remembering lots of small details. Actually, it's the second time I have watched TP from start to end. And I liked it even more than for the first time. Looks like the enjoyment of watching TP grows exponentially.
Audrey Horne wrote:I think I also thought this would spring up threads about the other characters too.

That would be nice, obviously. I wrote some observations of Hank's character in the description of the music video I've recently uploaded. Actually, majority of TP characters has depth. I think that Audrey's character is, or at least seems to be the most complex (till the 2nd season's 9th episode).

Cooper is also complicated. I like the fact that despite his overall coolness he often gets irritated when he loses control over the situation, like his angry speech to Diane about the noisy Icelanders or crazy twist accompanied with "Jeeez!" when Andy accidentaly drops the revolver. Some other thought - I'm not so sure if his choice to give the soul to Earle was the right one. I think Coop misinterpreted the situation. He could at least try to fight Earle and save both his "soul" and Audr...nnie.
Audrey Horne wrote:Of the top of my head, it roughly compared the end of the One-Eyed Jacks arc to Hitchcock's Notorious, and comparing and constrasting the noir touches to fairy tale elements. The interesing juxtaposition of what is one genre dealing with sex and desire, and one with innocence and hope. I know because Audrey isn't really featured in the episode, but moreso as the object Cooper and Truman have to rescue, it was more reflective about what had been up to that point in the story.

I rewatched "Notorious" recently just to find more similarities (not my favourite Hitchcock movie, but still great). Some major ones are:
- obvious one - Devlin (Grant) is a federal agent. Alicia (Bergman) falls in love with him and decides to help him with his investigation (major difference here - Devlin talks her into it).
- the chemistry between Devlin and Alicia is similar: Ingrid is open and passionate while Grant is cool and rather temperate.
- the other federal agents consider Alicia as a slutty, insensitive woman. Devlin knows she's none of those.
- Alicia calls Devlin a "dream man".
- she is quite careless during her investigation - she returns the stolen key to the keyring, even though it's easy to deduce that the antagonist noticed its absence earlier.
- her cover is blown and is consequently poisoned by the "bad guys".
- even though she's in trouble, she still tries to appear that everything is under her control in front of Devlin - she blames hangover for her sickness (reminds of Audrey's phone call to Cooper and her prayer - "Not that I can't handle it...")
- in the end Devlin rescues Alicia against his superiors' orders.
Audrey Horne wrote:- relationship with Benjamin Horne (Laura as a factor)
Definitely deserves to be dealt with (2.06 seems like the right place, and then again after the murderer's identity is revealed) And the triangle between them and Cooper. Personally, one of the saddest loss of the scrapped storyline.

A lot of suggestions that Audrey was jealous about Laura are in the script, but were not used (the same with her care about Johnny). Like the first conversation of Audrey and Cooper - "Do you like my ring?" had to be followed by the information about the pony Benjamin Horne gave to Laura. Personally, I love the way Audrey says to her father "About my DEAR FRIEND Laura being brutally murdered." in 1x01. That emphasis is very revealing, sounds like a complaint.

And yeah, more scenes with MacLachlan and Beymer would be awesome.
- Thank you.
- No. Thank you. [lights up the cigar]
blair
Posts: 64
Joined: Tue Aug 04, 2009 7:44 am

Re: "Do your palms ever itch?" All things Audrey

Postby blair » Sun Jan 09, 2011 2:54 pm

Audrey Horne wrote:enjoy. a friend tipped me off to these... the second part is a hoot -she talks about Miss Lara Flynn Boyle.







Thanks for the link...I'm sorry but I find her very arrogant in this interview, it's not cool to talk like that about someone, specially when she is not very clear about the jaleousy thing (she could give an example).

I guess it's for that I'm no more for this kind of "behind the scene stuff", specially when you have one version of the story.

Apparently, Kyle have tried to flirt with her (according the blog of Miss Fenn), it's maybe the reason behind the tension between these two young women.

I'm fan of Audrey but not really of Miss Fenn (she have also really aged badly :twisted: ), specially because, if I remember correctly, Lara Flynn Boyle have always been "correct" when she have talked about the others Twin Peaks actress (in her old blog who is closed now).
User avatar
B_M
Posts: 12
Joined: Sun Dec 05, 2010 3:49 pm

Re: "Do your palms ever itch?" All things Audrey

Postby B_M » Wed Jan 19, 2011 12:14 pm

blair wrote:I'm fan of Audrey but not really of Miss Fenn (she have also really aged badly :twisted: ), specially because, if I remember correctly, Lara Flynn Boyle have always been "correct" when she have talked about the others Twin Peaks actress (in her old blog who is closed now).

Well, it depends on one's definition of "correctness" - does it mean telling the truth about our feelings or telling only good things (lies frequently) about others. In this specific case I really liked her honesty - harsh indeed, but I myself really needed some sort of confirmation about the whole messing-up-with-second-season-plot matter - not just veiled suggestions (like from "Secrets from Another Place: Creating Twin Peaks" documentary).

Blair wrote:she have also really aged badly :twisted:

For me she still looks great for her age (45). Plus - she's got her own lips :P

---

Anyway, watched Weir's "Picnic at Hanging Rock" some time ago. Maybe that's just me, but there are many parallels between it and TP (from the dreamy, mysterious atmosphere to observations like Irma's character resembles Audrey in many aspects and Miranda is Laura). I encourage everyone to watch this movie, it's great (well, it's Peter Weir after all).
User avatar
Audrey Horne
Posts: 1953
Joined: Sat Apr 14, 2007 9:20 pm
Location: The Great Northern

Re: "Do your palms ever itch?" All things Audrey

Postby Audrey Horne » Wed Jan 19, 2011 5:52 pm

haha. glad someone else repsonded first.

I can completely understand being put off by the comment, but personally I love it. I really like that she speaks her mind.

From my point of view, the show is long over and it ended its second half surrounded in confusion of scrapped storylines that were dictated by backstage politics. So for purists and fans of the show, it's like receiving treasures of information that we've longed for.

On the second season dvd interview, she talks about the Miss Twin Peaks contest and not wanting to be part of it. In another interview, she talks about complaining to Lynch about the dropping of the Cooper/Audrey arc. But she's also talked about what she really loved about the show, and to me, seems to be right on the money about what worked and didn't. I like that she's candid, and find it valuable.

In terms of the Lara comment, I didn't find it malicious, just stating what was going on back then from her point of view. And even says Lara is cool, and is one way and she's another. And she was providing some history on the evolution of the show. Audrey wasn't a character and was created on the spot. And then after the pilot was created even more. Cooper was supposed to be involved with Josie, most likely in a soap opera triangle with Truman. (This makes sense if you see the Town Hall scene in the pilot). The writers liked writing for the Audrey character and could have a lot of fun with it. And it just grew and grew, and they liked the chemistry MacLachlan and Fenn had together. So now, the nothing character was now linked to the main protagonist and with (arguably) the juiciest scenes and plotline. And it was also by the end of the first season the fan favorite, and then garnered the Emmy nomination. So I can imagine others not being particualrly happy about it. I imagine the summer of 1990 magazine covers and the Rolling Stone issue didn't help much either. but it's the nature of the business, and these were actresses all on the rise, so I'm sure it's going to get political.

Having met her a few times (thanks rainbow!), Sherilyn looks amazing, and refreshingly, aging naturally. But even more importantly, she's very kind and warm, funny, smart and articulate ...and just cool.
God, I love this music. Isn't it too dreamy?
User avatar
kafard
Posts: 179
Joined: Thu Mar 06, 2008 7:14 am
Location: France
Contact:

Re: "Do your palms ever itch?" All things Audrey

Postby kafard » Sun Jan 23, 2011 12:33 am

Thank you Audrey :)

I was waiting for a response at the "post" of blair'o'.
A french little guy named : Dam.
blair
Posts: 64
Joined: Tue Aug 04, 2009 7:44 am

Re: "Do your palms ever itch?" All things Audrey

Postby blair » Fri Feb 11, 2011 10:06 am

Well, it depends on one's definition of "correctness" - does it mean telling the truth about our feelings or telling only good things (lies frequently) about others. In this specific case I really liked her honesty - harsh indeed, but I myself really needed some sort of confirmation about the whole messing-up-with-second-season-plot matter - not just veiled suggestions (like from "Secrets from Another Place: Creating Twin Peaks" documentary).[


The lies are, lot more frequently than the good things, from the bad comments (specially when you want to hurt someone).

again you can say the truth (if it's really the truth) without to be so harsh, and also, before talk about the others faults, it would be cool if she talk about her own mistakes too (her reaction about the Dance sequence, her bad and childish reaction for the Cooper/Audrey relationship and the movie in the 90's interview), ...also she is not clear about her comments, so if she can't give a clear example (we don't know if it's her direct experience, or if she have just repeated something from the crew), it would be better to don't say nothing before the fans make false or biased conclusions.

For example, you have linked directly the Miss Fenn comment about Lara for the so-called second season problem (I suppose you talk about Cooper/Audrey relationship)...but there are no such comment from Miss Fenn in this interview. She have simply said that Miss Boyle was not happy with the importance of her role, nothing more, nothing less, and it's not necessary linked to the decision of Kyle to stop the relationship with Audrey...so there are no real confirmation about something for the second season.

For the moment, the official reason, from Kyle MacLachlan, but also from Miss Fenn and David Lynch, it was the problem between the age of these two protagonists, it's maybe not all the truth, but it's the official reason, except that, we have for the moment just speculations and rumors about that, so imo it's unfair that Miss Boyle take all the blame about that (sorry for my english).

ps: She have just 45 ? She look like way older. :lol:, it's a big shock to see her like that. :wink:
Last edited by blair on Fri Feb 11, 2011 4:10 pm, edited 9 times in total.
blair
Posts: 64
Joined: Tue Aug 04, 2009 7:44 am

Re: "Do your palms ever itch?" All things Audrey

Postby blair » Fri Feb 11, 2011 10:33 am

Audrey Horne wrote:haha. glad someone else repsonded first.

I can completely understand being put off by the comment, but personally I love it. I really like that she speaks her mind.


We can agree to disagree about that, but I can understand your point of view.

From my point of view, the show is long over and it ended its second half surrounded in confusion of scrapped storylines that were dictated by backstage politics. So for purists and fans of the show, it's like receiving treasures of information that we've longed for.


backstage politics about what ? Fenn don't have talked about Boyle for this decision to end the romance between Audrey/Cooper for the second season and according her previous interview from the 90's, it was the Kyle decision, but I think he have taken the good decision, imo it would have killed the character of Dale Cooper to be in love with a high school girl, I like their relationship, but I'm glad that they don't have gone too far with that.

In terms of the Lara comment, I didn't find it malicious, just stating what was going on back then from her point of view. And even says Lara is cool, and is one way and she's another.


Sorry, but maybe it's me, I'm not a good english speaker, maybe I simply take her words too directly, for example I don't have heard when she have said that "Lara was cool" (I hear more "that cool"), but maybe I'm a little lost in the translation.

So I can imagine others not being particualrly happy about it. I imagine the summer of 1990 magazine covers and the Rolling Stone issue didn't help much either. but it's the nature of the business, and these were actresses all on the rise, so I'm sure it's going to get political.


It's my problem with this interview and I understand your point of view, but in some way we can say the same thing about the reaction of Fenn with Heather Graham for example. She say something about Lara who was apparently not happy with the importance of Audrey, she talk about how Lara tought it was "her" TV show, but Miss Fenn have done exactly the same thing that her when she have complained that they have changed the romance and the importance of her character, and unlike Boyle, she have done that in various interview (I prefer the discretion of Miss Boyle), Twin Peaks was not "the Sherylin Fenn" show either.

She don't seem too (or don't want) to give an clear example about the Miss Boyle reaction, we don't know if it was her direct experience with her, or just some rumors she have learnt from the crews, we don't have any clear comments about that, so fans are more or less forced to make our own (and most of the times false) conclusion with near...nothing.
User avatar
kafard
Posts: 179
Joined: Thu Mar 06, 2008 7:14 am
Location: France
Contact:

Re: "Do your palms ever itch?" All things Audrey

Postby kafard » Tue Feb 15, 2011 5:45 am

There is an another way to think, it's : Just appreciate the show.

I don't care if this is the Lara, Sherilyn's show, I just love twin peaks.

So, for me, all the things around are all speculations.

(I do prefer Audrey at Donna in the show, but it's my own point of view of the show.)

oh... and I never saw Audrey with Cooper even if they are in some ways in love, for me this is more a friendship relation than a boyfriend/girlfriend's relation.
A french little guy named : Dam.
User avatar
gavriloP
Posts: 145
Joined: Tue Jun 10, 2008 4:24 pm

Re: "Do your palms ever itch?" All things Audrey

Postby gavriloP » Tue Feb 15, 2011 2:59 pm

This interview made me think about those young actresses of Twin Peaks. I find it funny that Donna really seems like only main character that was originally created. Shelly, Audrey and Maddy (and of course Laura too, remember that she was originally supposed to be only a dead body) were all created because Lynch and Frost liked the actresses themselves. Of course this was probably true with many actors too... So it might have been eating Lara at least a little :wink:

And lets not forget that Josie was originally something Isabella Rosselini would've played. So Joan Chen also had huge influence to her character.

I personally really like Shelly, Audrey and Maddy but not Donna. Well, I have to admit that I absolutely love Moira Kelly in FWWM so maybe it is just my dislike with LFB.
User avatar
Colonel Cooper
Posts: 33
Joined: Mon Nov 07, 2011 12:35 pm
Location: U.K.

Re: "Do your palms ever itch?" All things Audrey

Postby Colonel Cooper » Mon Nov 07, 2011 3:38 pm

I've recently started my periodical re-watching of the first season and a half of "Twin Peaks" - and it still grips my emotions like nothing before or since has managed to do. A significant part of that has to be due to the acting tour-de-force of Sherrilyn Fenn in turning the character of Audrey, not originally even intended, into the female lead and, arguably, the outstanding character in the whole series. This current run-through has been made even more pleasurable by reading, in tandem with watching each episode, your incredible analyses Audrey Horne. You've managed to capture the duality of her character that only Cooper ever really saw, and made insights that would never have occurred to me - "Notorious," while not being among my favourite Hitchcock's, is still a great film, and yet I'd never noticed it's many similarities to the Audrey/Cooper arc until you highlighted it.

Sorry to quote another user so extensively, but this post from NoiselessFan from a couple of years ago, mirrors my feelings so perfectly that it bears repeating:

NoiselessFan wrote:The author of this thread has put in words better than my unwritten thoughts can express and scratched an intellectual itch I wouldn't spent yrs fumbling to find. There has never been a super couple on TV as great as what this show had... and they threw it away?!

What's worse is they actually knew what they had and still tossed it!! The creators of the show had planned for the romantic arc and decided it was too dangerous to put a 30 yr old man with an 18 yr old woman - are they kidding me? A show that hung its hat on a 50 yr old man raping and killing his 17 yr old daughter felt a love affair between Cooper and Audrey was too morally hot to handle?

...when the audience had already all but approved of it? What?? I don't know whether to laugh or cry. This upsets my stomach. And I'm not a hopeless hapless romantic. I'm a dude who can't stand soaps and sappy sob stories - yet I find myself pissed.


While I agree with many in that scenes of Audrey and Cooper sharing bubble-baths, like Daniel Travanti and Veronica Hamel endlessly did in "Hill Street Blues", would've been inappropriate, I was quite prepared for Cooper to admit to Audrey, and thus to us the audience, that he found himself falling for her, despite himself, perhaps after rescuing her from One-Eyed Jacks or on the night Ben was arrested. Imagine if that phone hadn't rung. Would he have been able to hide his feelings from Harry or Ben, or would they pick up intimations through body language, like he could so effortlessly do? What a waste of potential drama in Kyle's insistence that Cooper should always remain the clean-cut, perfect FBI agent - because it destroyed the character of Audrey at a stroke, everything she'd done first season, absolutely everything, had been for Cooper.

As I've mentioned already, my personal ending to "Twin Peaks" is episode 10 of the 2nd season with Audrey's speech to Cooper:

Audrey: "Well, let me tell you something, Agent Cooper. One of these days, before you know it, I'm gonna be grown up, and on my own, and you better watch out".

Cooper "Okay Audrey, it's a deal."

Laura's murder solved, BOB was a psychopathic manifestation of Leland's fractured mind, No Windom 'the hooded claw' Earle, no Lodges in the woods, no Annie or J.J. Wheeler, just a promise between Cooper and Audrey to explore their feelings in the fullness of time.

I can live with that.

Lastly, before this post gets hopelessly long, just a mention to Audrey Horne that I'm all caught up with your episode analyses - just watched episode 4 of season 2 - and your analysis for that was over three years ago!! Is this project on indefinite hold? because I need to see Audrey get rescued from One-Eyed Jacks - and there's nothing to read alongside it.

You have my deepest appreciation for everything you've written thus far, and I really hope to see more...
Just Agent, Audrey. Special Agent.
User avatar
Fire
Posts: 69
Joined: Tue Oct 11, 2011 1:33 pm

Re: "Do your palms ever itch?" All things Audrey

Postby Fire » Mon Nov 07, 2011 10:59 pm

I feel the need to post my appreciation and concurrence, but the poster above me pretty much took the words out of my mouth. I have NEVER been into romance in cinema, but Audrey and Cooper was a force to be reckoned with. aside from that, Audrey's character is so powerful, complex, and dynamic that I find myself falling for her in a way.

I would get sick to my stomach seeing what happened to her during the less then stellar parts of season 2. And Wheeler is a tumor.
Image
User avatar
Audrey Horne
Posts: 1953
Joined: Sat Apr 14, 2007 9:20 pm
Location: The Great Northern

Re: "Do your palms ever itch?" All things Audrey

Postby Audrey Horne » Tue Nov 08, 2011 9:18 am

wow, thanks.

I hadn't even thought about doing this again... it's been so long.

Okay, I'll reread the thread, and start a new entry.
God, I love this music. Isn't it too dreamy?
entropy
Posts: 13
Joined: Wed Sep 28, 2011 9:52 am

Re: "Do your palms ever itch?" All things Audrey

Postby entropy » Tue Nov 08, 2011 10:19 am

Fire wrote:I feel the need to post my appreciation and concurrence, but the poster above me pretty much took the words out of my mouth. I have NEVER been into romance in cinema, but Audrey and Cooper was a force to be reckoned with. aside from that, Audrey's character is so powerful, complex, and dynamic that I find myself falling for her in a way.

I would get sick to my stomach seeing what happened to her during the less then stellar parts of season 2. And Wheeler is a tumor.


This. Colonel Cooper (great name, btw) said pretty much everything I'd want to say about Audrey, albeit far more concisely and eloquently.

Since it was mentioned in the Colonel's post, one thing I will add is that I too have never quite understood any argument that a growing affection and desire for Audrey (and perhaps an admission of this longing) throughout the course of the narrative would be "out-of-character" for Coop. Watching the series, I was convinced that the tragic hero element of Cooper would be revealed and relived through Audrey. Coop's flaw, like all classical heroes, is not caused by some vice or depravity but just human frailty; his weakness is that he falls in love with people whom, given the surrounding circumstances, he "shouldn't." The setup seemed perfect: his love for Caroline left him unprepared and unable to guard her life. Now, he senses history repeating itself with his genuine affection for Audrey, aware of what will happen if he falls for her but his composure is ultimately overwhelmed by the barreling freight train of desire and destiny. He gets sloppy, distracted, consumed by his thoughts. Audrey gets abducted to the Black Lodge, and Coop is forced to relive a mistake he swore to never make again - except with a chance to correct it this time. Making him human doesn't undermine his moral fiber; quite the contrary, his internal conflict is absolutely crucial to creating a well-developed hero.

Besides, she's Audrey Horne, and she gets what she wants.
User avatar
Fire
Posts: 69
Joined: Tue Oct 11, 2011 1:33 pm

Re: "Do your palms ever itch?" All things Audrey

Postby Fire » Tue Nov 08, 2011 12:39 pm

A small part of me believes that the reasons we are given, Audrey being 18 and Cooper being an FBI agent etc etc, are not the entire story. Everything from the story and characters, Mark Frost and David Lynch, and even the marketing all pointed to signs of Audrey and Dale being an important key figure in Twin Peaks. I don't think that "Audrey is 18" adequately explains why it was canned. Maybe that's part of the reason, but you can clearly tell that the behind the show knew what they were dealing with and saw its potential.

Then somehow we get Annie and Wheeler?

I'm definitely not saying there is some seedy conspiracy, but I want to believe there is more.
Image

Return to “Twin Peaks Movie, TV, Books”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: BGate, Panapaok and 25 guests