Judy

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nemo
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Re: Judy

Post by nemo »

I know about these facts, but sometimes I would like to focus on, what was actually shot. If we dwell on this topic from that perspective, then the interpretation of the phrase MIKE said might work! Sometimes I think, the phrase ,,Judy" was told about Laura as victim with an ,,opened still face".
The association with the formica table I always found stunning. Maybe, the lifeless face is associated with the table, which top in fact doesn't express anything. The green colour points out the symbol of victim. But of course, its just a rubbish I'm talking about...
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autohypnosis
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Re: Judy

Post by autohypnosis »

Here's my theory about Phillip Jeffries and Judy. I'll preface this by saying that I have not read the FWWM shooting script, which I'm aware contains some additional, unfilmed material with Jeffries talking about Judy, although I am slightly familiar with some of that material. My thought on that is, what might have meant one thing in script form can mean something completely different in the finished film, especially when you're talking about Lynch.

I think Judy is Laura Palmer.

In the scene in FWWM when Cooper is talking one-on-one with Albert, Cooper has some special kind of intuition that allows him to know certain information about the killer's next victim. He doesn't know who she is specifically, but he knows things about her -- including what she is doing at that exact moment ("preparing a great abundance of food.")

It's obvious that Phillip Jeffries has somehow found his way into the world of the Lodge-dwellers (Bob, Mike, The Arm, etc.) and discovered some things about the nature of the way they operate. When he suddenly shows up at FBI headquarters, he has lots of things he'd like to tell them, but aside from being frazzled, he maybe has some sense that he won't be there long. So he says he's "not going to talk about Judy" -- a name that sets something off in Cooper, prompting him to yell, "Gordon!"

Probably using the same kind of intuition that allowed him to know a few things about Laura without even knowing who she was, Cooper is able to intuit that when Jeffries says "Judy," he's referring to the killer's next victim. Perhaps Gordon Cole intuits the same thing, hence his acknowledgement of Cooper's concern: "I know, Coop!"

However, Jeffries has other things to talk about. He starts describing the meeting above the convenience store and briefly mentions the way the Lodge-dwellers exist in dreams, but he gets cut off before he can convey anything very coherent.

I think Jeffries' role in the grand scheme of things is to show us that what we previously thought were phenomena that existed only in Twin Peaks are part of something much larger.

I'm not sure who the monkey is, or why a monkey would be at the convenience store meeting, or why it would be the monkey who says "Judy" toward the end of the film. But notice the placement of the monkey at the end of the movie: It appears and says "Judy" right before the shot of Laura wrapped in plastic. This is not some random snippet of weirdness; to me, this is a very carefully placed piece of information. The monkey says "Judy," and then we see an image of Laura.
nemo
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Re: Judy

Post by nemo »

I think, there is one factual reason at least, why the monkey appears just before we see Laura's face. The monkey's face is also opened.
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sparco1979
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Re: Judy

Post by sparco1979 »

I've always thought what happened to Cooper at the end happened to Philip Jefferies - He'd been trapped in the lodge and a doppelganger had gotten out and attacked his girlfriend, in this case Judy, not Annie and The real Philip in FWWM heard of this and knew he'd been implicated, similar to Season 3/2nd film if Cooper had gotten out the lodge he would act like that as it was'nt him and had been gone for some time. (long lodge time)
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Exy
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Re: Judy

Post by Exy »

Diane wrote:Has anyone heard the monkey saying "Judy" at the end of FWWM? I never heard it until the most recent time I watched it, nor was I aware it was there.

Thoughts on Judy? Is the monkey Judy? Maybe Agent Jeffries' monkey? Or is Judy a woman he knows?

I think it's unlikely to be a reference to "Wizard of Oz" as there is a clue in the name of the David Bowie character - Jefferies, as in L.B. Jefferies from "Rear Window", only James Stewart also played another Twin Peaks related character in Alfred Hitchcock's "Vertigo" and this is what I think is being nodded at with "Judy" as this was the name of the character played by Kim Novak who pretends to be Madelaine to fool James Stewart's character Scotty Ferguson, Madelaine Ferguson being the dual roll played in Twin Peaks by Sheryl Lee.

You can find more detail at in my blog post about FWWM : http://www.online-inquirer.com/cinema/f ... k-with-me/
nemo
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Re: Judy

Post by nemo »

Surprisingly I stumbled upon a screen shot from Twin Peaks Fire Walk With Me, which somehow supplements the discussion about the ring, Judy and formica table, to say more specifically - about its TOP. I wonder, how I didn't manage to notice this fact, but as you can see, there is a cut in the table top, which material was used for making the ring. Thus it seems to be absolutely clear, that Mike in the dialogue refers to the ring by mentioning the top of the table. Previously I supposed, that the material should be the same, but couldn't find any visual proof. Maybe most of you know about it. In this case I'd like to share this fact with the people, who don't.
By the way as far as I can remember right after Mike tells the phrase about the "stillness" Laura sees the image of a barking dog. Then comes the phrase about the table, whereby one could guess, that it was just a cut phrase, because Laura couldn't follow Mike's words being completely perplexed.
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gavriloP
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Re: Judy

Post by gavriloP »

One thing to consider when it comes to Judy is that monkey. We see it when we hear the "Judy" whisper when Laura is wrapped in plastic, but we also see that the boy magician is a monkey. If that line: "fell a victim" could mean that the boy magician is also a victim then it would be clear that the monkey would represent the victim of BOB. So perhaps Judy was another victim like others have suggested. That monkey also reappear in the end of INLAND EMPIRE.

I don't know at which point Lynch added that whisper, but it isn't on a script, I'm sure. He added the angel scene in the end even though it wasn't on a script either and somehow it feels like he didn't believe that there were any sequels coming at that point. So the question is, was Judy only a setup for the future or did it have some other meaning?
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birchy
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Re: Judy

Post by birchy »

And don't forget when Lynch was on Leno to promote Mulholland Dr he asked if he could say hi to his friend Judy:


Lynch: You betcha. Can I say hello to my friend Judy?

Leno: Well who's Judy?

Lynch: She's a friend. Hello Judy (Lynch waves)

Leno: Now who is Judy? What's she do?

Lynch: She's just a friend.

Leno: Now you see, is she an open-ended friend?

Lynch: Open-ended, yeah.

Leno: Where's Judy now?

Lynch: She's in America.

Leno: She's in America. Alright, okay. Anyway, the film's called Mulholland Drive. Folks, it's really well done. It's very interesting. If you like to think when you go to movies and like to figure things out...and I mean that in the best sense of the way.

Lynch: Bless your heart Jay.


Thanks to Lynchnet for the transcript because I can't seem to find it on youtube.
http://www.lynchnet.com/mdrive/leno.html
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snoghumangerm
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Re: Judy

Post by snoghumangerm »

I always just figured it was a Judy Garland reference, since Lynch is such a huge Wizard of Oz fanatic
Indeed. I could see a definite wizard of oz reference when Ben Horne 'awakens' from his psychotic episode and tells the people surrounding him that he'd seen each of them in his 'dream'.
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perno
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Re: Judy

Post by perno »

I don't know who Judy is but I remember having read something about indicating Jeffries was investigating about her in south America. Someone to confirm?

Anyway...

@ Diane:
JEFFRIES
(pointing at Cooper)
Who do you think that is there?

He must think it's the doppleganger Dale?
I don't think he thinks it, I think he knows it. Time is very strange in the lodge and we can think it goes backward...
I really think the man in red IS Cooper. The fact that he appears with the mask just when Jeffries say that clearly states that Jeffries knows Cooper will fall before BOB.

I have to add that the convenience store is from the futur as the boy (Leeland) is free (no more mask) while the man in red is under BOB possession (he has the mask).


@ autohypnosis:
I think the "Gordon/I know Coop" thing just refers to the dream Cooper told Gordon about. Cooper just wants to say "this is just like in my dream" and Gordon stop Cooper to tell "I know that's your dream Coop, it's like you've described it to me".

@ gavriloP:
One thing to consider when it comes to Judy is that monkey.
The man in red is Coop, the little boy is Leeland and the Monkey is Laura.
I epoh uoy nac dnatsrednu ym hsilgnE.
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