the Missing Pieces

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james
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Re: Twin Peaks: The Missing Pieces - analysis/thoughts etc

Postby james » Sat Aug 02, 2014 10:14 am

LostInTheMovies wrote:
kingsoprano718 wrote:Here's a point I am not sure anyone has made yet. Did we always just assume a 2nd or 3rd film was not made because of how the movie did? Because if the plan was to go three why was the decision made during editing to remove the Annie and is it past scenes that were shot specifically to set up the next movie. One has to think a decision was made in the editing room to not include these crucial scenes as they only take up a few minutes of the run time. Why were they removed if sequels were planned up until release date?


This is a good question. It's as if, subconsciously if nothing else, Lynch and Sweeney (I would love to know what role she played in nudging him towards this) finally realized that they were completing a story, the story of Laura's journey, rather than keeping a longer one going. But in dramatic/narrative terms having Cooper and Annie in there would have just seemed really distracting after the film's harrowing conclusion. Just wouldn't have worked.

I also suspect, especially after watching the Moving Through Time documentary, that the level of Sheryl Lee's performance was really unexpected and had a hand in re-orienting the material around her (and perhaps to great inclusion of the angels and the ring as a positive feature, which were added pretty late in the game - during production I believe, though Wrapped in Plastic editor believes the latter was actually improvised through pick-up shots in post).


Interesting points! I do think the Annie/ Cooper post-series shots could have been included, as long as they were kept mysterious and given a pretty dreamy feel - moreso than the way in which they're presented in the blu-ray. Even adding a bit of the static effect that we get in FWWM, or similar. I do think the scenes of Annie and Cooper do tie in with the harrowing end for Laura, in fact. Then we could return to the red room and the ending we have in FWWM.

Whilst I agree quite a bit with you about Sheryl Lee as Laura, I would say that her performance is not perhaps too subtle. Only somewhat in the scene where she looks to the Angel painting and asks 'is it true' do I see the acting broadening out into something more complex. Otherwise, we mostly see Laura strung out on drugs, drunk, terrified or traumatised. Not that any of that is not to be expected! Also, bearing in mind that Laura is supposed to be 17, I wouldn't expect her to be acting all that differently to how we see. But, this is maybe a stupid question, but does she ever really look convincingly 17 years old?
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Re: Twin Peaks: The Missing Pieces - analysis/thoughts etc

Postby LostInTheMovies » Sat Aug 02, 2014 10:28 am

james wrote:
LostInTheMovies wrote:
kingsoprano718 wrote:Here's a point I am not sure anyone has made yet. Did we always just assume a 2nd or 3rd film was not made because of how the movie did? Because if the plan was to go three why was the decision made during editing to remove the Annie and is it past scenes that were shot specifically to set up the next movie. One has to think a decision was made in the editing room to not include these crucial scenes as they only take up a few minutes of the run time. Why were they removed if sequels were planned up until release date?


This is a good question. It's as if, subconsciously if nothing else, Lynch and Sweeney (I would love to know what role she played in nudging him towards this) finally realized that they were completing a story, the story of Laura's journey, rather than keeping a longer one going. But in dramatic/narrative terms having Cooper and Annie in there would have just seemed really distracting after the film's harrowing conclusion. Just wouldn't have worked.

I also suspect, especially after watching the Moving Through Time documentary, that the level of Sheryl Lee's performance was really unexpected and had a hand in re-orienting the material around her (and perhaps to great inclusion of the angels and the ring as a positive feature, which were added pretty late in the game - during production I believe, though Wrapped in Plastic editor believes the latter was actually improvised through pick-up shots in post).


Interesting points! I do think the Annie/ Cooper post-series shots could have been included, as long as they were kept mysterious and given a pretty dreamy feel - moreso than the way in which they're presented in the blu-ray. Even adding a bit of the static effect that we get in FWWM, or similar. I do think the scenes of Annie and Cooper do tie in with the harrowing end for Laura, in fact. Then we could return to the red room and the ending we have in FWWM.

Whilst I agree quite a bit with you about Sheryl Lee as Laura, I would say that her performance is not perhaps too subtle. Only somewhat in the scene where she looks to the Angel painting and asks 'is it true' do I see the acting broadening out into something more complex. Otherwise, we mostly see Laura strung out on drugs, drunk, terrified or traumatised. Not that any of that is not to be expected! Also, bearing in mind that Laura is supposed to be 17, I wouldn't expect her to be acting all that differently to how we see. But, this is maybe a stupid question, but does she ever really look convincingly 17 years old?


I don't think the performance is intended to be particularly subtle (which isn't to say it's not complex) - I'd compare to silent-film acting in many ways. More about power than nuance. Lee's expressive range is incredible. As for looking 17, eh, nobody in the town of Twin Peaks really looks their age, do they?! No wonder they all stop going to high school a few episodes in...
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Re: Twin Peaks: The Missing Pieces - analysis/thoughts etc

Postby Ross » Sat Aug 02, 2014 10:48 am

james wrote:But, this is maybe a stupid question, but does she ever really look convincingly 17 years old?

Well- not really, but I honestly think a big part of that was the wig she had to wear. It definitely made her look older than she was. At least she looked younger than the "17 year old" Teresa, who looked like she was pushing 30!
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Re: Twin Peaks: The Missing Pieces - analysis/thoughts etc

Postby LostInTheMovies » Sat Aug 02, 2014 10:56 am

Ross wrote:
james wrote:But, this is maybe a stupid question, but does she ever really look convincingly 17 years old?

Well- not really, but I honestly think a big part of that was the wig she had to wear. It definitely made her look older than she was. At least she looked younger than the "17 year old" Teresa, who looked like she was pushing 30!


I'm just glad the wig wasn't the one from the finale which really doesn't work for me, just seems kind of plopped down on her head. Though it does give her a kind of Elvira/Vampira vibe appropriate for the Black Lodge.
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Re: Twin Peaks: The Missing Pieces - analysis/thoughts etc

Postby Ross » Sat Aug 02, 2014 10:59 am

In thinking about the post-series scenes:

First of all, I think those scenes are amazing, and are a definite highlight of the Missing Pieces for me. But- do they fit into the film? I think Lynch made the right emotional and storytelling choice of going directly to Laura and Cooper in the lodge for an ending. The film needs to end with Laura/Angel/Cooper. And placing the deleted scenes BEFORE the Laura/Cooper ending throws off the pace, and makes it seem like the ending (with Laura) comes a month later (after the series) as well.

On the other hand, obviously those scenes were filmed in part to remind viewers where the story stood, and to end on pretty much the same cliffhanger as the series. And I agree that having them in the film may have actually helped fuel more positive feelings from fans and kept the momentum for a continuation. Who knows, if they remained in the film, perhaps another movie may have happened(?)

So the one thing I was thinking would work is if they had gone the "Marvel" post-credits sequence route. End the movie as is, roll credits, fade to black, "One Month Later"... Hell, people who missed it because they left during the credits might have even gone back to see it!
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Re: Twin Peaks: The Missing Pieces - analysis/thoughts etc

Postby LostInTheMovies » Sat Aug 02, 2014 11:07 am

Ross wrote:In thinking about the post-series scenes:

First of all, I think those scenes are amazing, and are a definite highlight of the Missing Pieces for me. But- do they fit into the film? I think Lynch made the right emotional and storytelling choice of going directly to Laura and Cooper in the lodge for an ending. The film needs to end with Laura/Angel/Cooper. And placing the deleted scenes BEFORE the Laura/Cooper ending throws off the pace, and makes it seem like the ending (with Laura) comes a month later (after the series) as well.

On the other hand, obviously those scenes were filmed in part to remind viewers where the story stood, and to end on pretty much the same cliffhanger as the series. And I agree that having them in the film may have actually helped fuel more positive feelings from fans and kept the momentum for a continuation. Who knows, if they remained in the film, perhaps another movie may have happened(?)

So the one thing I was thinking would work is if they had gone the "Marvel" post-credits sequence route. End the movie as is, roll credits, fade to black, "One Month Later"... Hell, people who missed it because they left during the credits might have even gone back to see it!


You almost wonder to what extent Lynch kinda knew it was over. I mean, he seems very positive about prospects in public statements and after the fact he says there was more he could do and the blowback took him by surprise.

But...knowing how the show had been cancelled, how Frost wasn't on board with his concept, how MacLachlan and the other actors wanted or had actually gone out, and most of all how the film he was assembling was so different from what fans might expect there had to be some part of Lynch that knew what was in store, though perhaps not to the degree it unfolded. In that sense, he had a decision to make. Ending the film with Cooper/Annie would have been a GREAT segue into the next movie but if that movie never happened (and it certainly seemed to most people, if not Lynch, that it wasn't going to) we're left with an even worse cliffhanger than the series and a coda that ruins the mood and narrative flow of what came before, to boot. (And if it's left where it was originally scripted, as you note, it would completely disrupt the ending of the movie.) His decision to cut this scene may very well be the best evidence we have that he kinda knew the writing was on the wall.
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Re: Twin Peaks: The Missing Pieces - analysis/thoughts etc

Postby underthefan » Sat Aug 02, 2014 12:32 pm

One of the things I love the most is the moment when Major Briggs tells Bobby to turn out the cigarette after Laura has left his basement, and Bobby just walks away. It perfectly sets you up for the moment in ep. 4 I think when he slaps the cigarette out of Bobby's mouth. That's fantastic!
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Re: Twin Peaks: The Missing Pieces - analysis/thoughts etc

Postby Neosmith » Sat Aug 02, 2014 7:48 pm

Wanted to add my own little bit: I never got what The Red Dwarf was talking about when he said: "With this ring, I thee wed". I had to wonder: who or what was he talking about? Who was being married?

But then, with the extended version of that scene, you get the lines like "intercourse between two worlds" and suddenly that other line snaps into focus - that is, the ring appears to wed the two worlds -the Lodge world and the human world-, allowing for travel from one to the other.
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Re: Twin Peaks: The Missing Pieces - analysis/thoughts etc

Postby Jasper » Sat Aug 02, 2014 9:55 pm

Neosmith wrote:Wanted to add my own little bit: I never got what The Red Dwarf was talking about when he said: "With this ring, I thee wed". I had to wonder: who or what was he talking about? Who was being married?

But then, with the extended version of that scene, you get the lines like "intercourse between two worlds" and suddenly that other line snaps into focus - that is, the ring appears to wed the two worlds -the Lodge world and the human world-, allowing for travel from one to the other.


I think that's right, and there's also the line in the script from Mrs. Tremond, "Why not be composed of materials and combinations of atoms?" That could indicate that these spirits gain some semblance of physicality by arriving partway in our dimension, through possession of humans (and owls) or otherwise. Also through the use of electricity as a medium for travel.

In addition to that I think it also might be a kind of wedding between these demonic spirits, who are making a sort of group trek from one dimension to the next (or halfway to the next, anyway). We know they've got a deal where BOB is the wild dog who has the fury of his own momentum, and is in charge of procuring victims. It seems Mrs. Tremond and her grandson also procure victims, but by fooling them into taking the ring.

Then, of course, the ring weds the human wearer to the lodge inhabitants, dooming the wearer and ensuring that the lodge inhabitants procure the Garmonbozia resulting from the wearer's pain and suffering (which BOB could otherwise steal for himself, tipping the power balance too far in the direction of BOB's brand of chaotic evil).

I think what's really interesting is that, as already noted, it seems to be an origin story. This meeting seems to take place before they ever invade our dimension, and it seems to be either the birth of the black lodge, or the moment they invade a preexisting black lodge to use it for their own purposes. "Above a convenience store" is almost certainly a metaphor (at least by the time of FWWM) for being in a dimension above ours, our dimension being a place of convenience for them, stocked with an endless supply of victims. I think Philip Jeffries can report on this meeting, if that was originally the meeting he was meant to describe, because in the lodge, and perhaps among these spirits in general, time is nonlinear...or semi-linear at most.
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Re: Twin Peaks: The Missing Pieces - analysis/thoughts etc

Postby LostInTheMovies » Sun Aug 03, 2014 7:18 am

Jasper wrote:
Neosmith wrote:Wanted to add my own little bit: I never got what The Red Dwarf was talking about when he said: "With this ring, I thee wed". I had to wonder: who or what was he talking about? Who was being married?

But then, with the extended version of that scene, you get the lines like "intercourse between two worlds" and suddenly that other line snaps into focus - that is, the ring appears to wed the two worlds -the Lodge world and the human world-, allowing for travel from one to the other.


I think that's right, and there's also the line in the script from Mrs. Tremond, "Why not be composed of materials and combinations of atoms?" That could indicate that these spirits gain some semblance of physicality by arriving partway in our dimension, through possession of humans (and owls) or otherwise. Also through the use of electricity as a medium for travel.

In addition to that I think it also might be a kind of wedding between these demonic spirits, who are making a sort of group trek from one dimension to the next (or halfway to the next, anyway). We know they've got a deal where BOB is the wild dog who has the fury of his own momentum, and is in charge of procuring victims. It seems Mrs. Tremond and her grandson also procure victims, but by fooling them into taking the ring.

Then, of course, the ring weds the human wearer to the lodge inhabitants, dooming the wearer and ensuring that the lodge inhabitants procure the Garmonbozia resulting from the wearer's pain and suffering (which BOB could otherwise steal for himself, tipping the power balance too far in the direction of BOB's brand of chaotic evil).

I think what's really interesting is that, as already noted, it seems to be an origin story. This meeting seems to take place before they ever invade our dimension, and it seems to be either the birth of the black lodge, or the moment they invade a preexisting black lodge to use it for their own purposes. "Above a convenience store" is almost certainly a metaphor (at least by the time of FWWM) for being in a dimension above ours, our dimension being a place of convenience for them, stocked with an endless supply of victims. I think Philip Jeffries can report on this meeting, if that was originally the meeting he was meant to describe, because in the lodge, and perhaps among these spirits in general, time is nonlinear...or semi-linear at most.


I'm wondering what people make of Laura's use of the ring at the end of the film, where it suddenly seems to switch meaning and take on a more positive, active function. I find John Thorne's interpretation pretty illuminating: http://abovethestore.blogspot.com/2009/ ... almer.html
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Re: Lostinthemovies

Postby james » Sun Aug 03, 2014 8:25 am

It is very difficult to know if the shots of Laura putting on the ring were filmed with Sheryl Lee or not, as there is a shot of her looking down which seems to be her looking down as she puts the ring on - it certainly looks very convincing.

Still, does this mean that the ring was simply thought of as something which 'dooms' its wearer, up until the decision to have Laura put the ring on at the end? I can't see any real suggestion that the ring is simply an evil symbol. The clear suggestion is that the Chalftont/ Tremonds gave it to Teresa Banks, just as they gave Laura the picture for her wall. So doesn't that seem more like the ring is something which saved Teresa? I see the Tremonds as being benevolent, rather than enticing anyone as suggested previously.

Teresa was someone who found out too much and it cost her life, just as it did Laura. But at the same time they were both strong-willed and were ultimately saved through the 'power' of the ring.
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Re: Lostinthemovies

Postby LostInTheMovies » Sun Aug 03, 2014 10:07 am

james wrote:It is very difficult to know if the shots of Laura putting on the ring were filmed with Sheryl Lee or not, as there is a shot of her looking down which seems to be her looking down as she puts the ring on - it certainly looks very convincing.

Still, does this mean that the ring was simply thought of as something which 'dooms' its wearer, up until the decision to have Laura put the ring on at the end? I can't see any real suggestion that the ring is simply an evil symbol. The clear suggestion is that the Chalftont/ Tremonds gave it to Teresa Banks, just as they gave Laura the picture for her wall. So doesn't that seem more like the ring is something which saved Teresa? I see the Tremonds as being benevolent, rather than enticing anyone as suggested previously.

Teresa was someone who found out too much and it cost her life, just as it did Laura. But at the same time they were both strong-willed and were ultimately saved through the 'power' of the ring.


Interesting thoughts. The malevolence and/or goodwill of the little man/Chalfonts/even the one-armed man (who seems like a "good guy" - at least an ally of the good guys - on the show) have always perplexed me somewhat in the film. I think the biggest suggestion of the ring's danger is probably Cooper's statement, "Don't take the ring, Laura." Thorne sees this as advice not to take the ring IN THIS CONTEXT only, Martha Nochimson thinks he's simply wrong (after all hes been trapped in the Lodge due to his own inability to make it through the threshold), and I think I've even heard people suggest this is actually the "Bad Cooper" saying this which is the reading I disagree with most. (We know what Bad Cooper looks/acts like and this isn't him, as the Missing Pieces seem to confirm). Of course there's also the matter that Lynch was makin up much of this as he went along and didn't know where he was going. Personally, Teresa's relationship to the ring has never been totally clear to me either. I don't really see any evidence she's been "saved" in the sense of being given greater wisdom or anything. Her relationship to Bob, if she has one, and the Chalfonts - whom she did seen to know - also remains hazy. Her role in the narrative as far as facilitating Laura's knowledge, revealing Leland's evil, and making Leland more aware of what he's done to his daughter - i.e. the more "realistic" elements - are all clear enough. But her role in the mystical Black Lodge mythology of the story still perplexed me somewhat. I'd be interested to hear more ideas on that.
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Re: Twin Peaks: The Missing Pieces - analysis/thoughts etc

Postby Jasper » Sun Aug 03, 2014 10:38 am

I believe that the ring both dooms the wearer and guarantees that the Garmonbozia will go to the lodge inhabitants (and not just out-of-control BOB, who’d like to steal it all for himself). BOB cannot possess the wearer, as the wearer is owned by the entire lodge. I think the ring doomed Teresa Banks, and naturally it doomed Chester Desmond. Jeffries says “I found something, and there they were.” Jeffries could well be talking about finding the ring.

Dale Cooper tells Laura not to take the ring (presumably because it will doom her to die). Laura ultimately makes the CHOICE to die because it is preferable to being possessed by BOB.

In the FWWM script, after MIKE/Gerard throws the ring into the train car, he’s laughing as BOB kills Laura (in the film it’s the LMFAP who we see laughing…and MIKE and the LMFAP are basically the same entity). MIKE and the others in the lodge will benefit from Laura’s death, as BOB won’t be able to steal the Garmonbozia for himself.

In the Missing Pieces, good Cooper is upset to realize that the ring is with Annie.

As for the Tremonds, I see them as strictly evil (at least in the film’s universe). They seem to have given the ring to the doomed Teresa Banks (and in the script Leland kills her in the Tremond/Chalfont trailer). They give the picture to Laura which leads her into the lodge and puts her into potential contact with the ring (which Coop warns her not to accept). It’s also worth noting that the Tremonds are among the presumably evil entities in the above-the-convenience-store scene, and the grandson even says “Fell a victim.” (as in felling a tree). Those entities are plotting to come to our dimension to feed on our pain and suffering. In the script, Mrs. Tremond makes the following suggestion, which to me cements her participation in the whole plot:
Image
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Re: Twin Peaks: The Missing Pieces - analysis/thoughts etc

Postby LostInTheMovies » Sun Aug 03, 2014 11:31 am

Jasper wrote:I believe that the ring both dooms the wearer and guarantees that the Garmonbozia will go to the lodge inhabitants (and not just out-of-control BOB, who’d like to steal it all for himself). BOB cannot possess the wearer, as the wearer is owned by the entire lodge. I think the ring doomed Teresa Banks, and naturally it doomed Chester Desmond. Jeffries says “I found something, and there they were.” Jeffries could well be talking about finding the ring.

Dale Cooper tells Laura not to take the ring (presumably because it will doom her to die). Laura ultimately makes the CHOICE to die because it is preferable to being possessed by BOB.

In the FWWM script, after MIKE/Gerard throws the ring into the train car, he’s laughing as BOB kills Laura (in the film it’s the LMFAP who we see laughing…and MIKE and the LMFAP are basically the same entity). MIKE and the others in the lodge will benefit from Laura’s death, as BOB won’t be able to steal the Garmonbozia for himself.

In the Missing Pieces, good Cooper is upset to realize that the ring is with Annie.

As for the Tremonds, I see them as strictly evil (at least in the film’s universe). They seem to have given the ring to the doomed Teresa Banks (and in the script Leland kills her in the Tremond/Chalfont trailer). They give the picture to Laura which leads her into the lodge and puts her into potential contact with the ring (which Coop warns her not to accept). It’s also worth noting that the Tremonds are among the presumably evil entities in the above-the-convenience-store scene, and the grandson even says “Fell a victim.” (as in felling a tree). Those entities are plotting to come to our dimension to feed on our pain and suffering. In the script, Mrs. Tremond makes the following suggestion, which to me cements her participation in the whole plot:
Image


Interesting reading. I think I (mostly) agree with the first part. I'm not sure about the second. One of the compelling elements of FWWM is how the Lodge mythology interacts with & amplifies Laura's own journey of self-discovery - in that sense, I see her entry into the Lodge during her dream as a positive development, aiding her in her quest for wisdom and truth (others read it differently; Thorne in particular sees the Laura in the door way as the "bad" Laura). In that sense I find the role of the painting - and the ring - to be ambiguous. It seems like the Lodge spirits have their own agenda which in some ways corresponds with Laura's. It would be interesting to see to what extent this mythology overlaps with aspects of Hinduism (Lynch being a devotee of the Maharishi) - not necessarily in a conscious way, but informed by it nonetheless. I'm currently reading David Lynch Swerves in which Martha Nochimson analyzes Lynch in light of quantum mechanics (which also ties into that Tremont photo above) & the Vedic texts - but it focuses almost exclusively in his last 4 films, I think.
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Re: Twin Peaks: The Missing Pieces - analysis/thoughts etc

Postby james » Mon Aug 04, 2014 3:22 am

It would indeed be interesting to know of any connections to Vedic ideas in terms of these symbols and abstract characters in FWWM.

I am very interested in the character of the 'Jumping Man' who we see quite a bit more in these Missing Pieces - especially in the extreme close-ups, accompanied by the unnerving noise he is making. It seems like the Jumping Man is related to the Tremond/ Chalfont boy, who wears a mask also which is white and with the long pointy nose. In turn, the Tremond grandson seems related to the young Leland - his inner child?

In terms of the jumping - I'd be interested in hearing ideas concerning this. One thing is that the jumping seems clearly to be an action done in excitement, in various situations. The Jumping Man is jumping about above the convenience store whilst plans are being made, but also the Tremond boy jumps about in a circle after Leland 'chickens out' of the meeting with Teresa because he sees Laura and Ronette there.

Since the noises the jumping man is making are new to the missing pieces scenes, the squawking is obviously disturbing and again fits into the whole circle of abuse relating back to Laura and Leland Palmer. What do others make of the noises we hear coming from jumping man, whether it be shrieking, distorted monkey noises or something more like the Baby in Eraserhead?

Another idea related to the 'jumping man' could be the act of jumping through space and time, which is what we see Philip Jeffries do - of course, he is another character who does his own fair share of screaming.

I'm sure a great deal more could be written about all of these aspects - I'm surprised more has not already been in fact, unless I've missed it?

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