Fire Walk with Me General Discussion

Moderators: BookhouseBoyBob, Ross, Jerry Horne, Brad D, Annie

User avatar
Mr. Reindeer
Lodge Member
Posts: 3056
Joined: Mon Jan 26, 2015 4:09 pm

Re: Fire Walk with Me General Discussion

Postby Mr. Reindeer » Wed May 20, 2020 5:49 pm

There’s a great little moment I think I forgot to make note of in TMP. When Gordon reaches for the intercom, Lynch appears to knock something over on the desk and reacts in annoyance for a second. I think this was a “mistake” and I love that Lynch left it in the film. It feels so real. (I was reminded of this because I just watched Part 9, and there’s a moment when Gordon steps outside the morgue and the door sort of hits him as he’s stepping out.)
User avatar
Mr. Reindeer
Lodge Member
Posts: 3056
Joined: Mon Jan 26, 2015 4:09 pm

Re: Fire Walk with Me General Discussion

Postby Mr. Reindeer » Wed May 27, 2020 12:18 pm

In that brief scene in TMP, I’d assumed Mike/Gerard was just booked in a really shitty motel, but having rewatched Part 15, I wonder if he wasn’t in a room at the Dutchman’s?
stro
New Member
Posts: 18
Joined: Sun Sep 13, 2020 12:38 pm

Re: Fire Walk with Me General Discussion

Postby stro » Sun Sep 13, 2020 3:50 pm

Sheryl Lee was astoundingly captivating in the movie, but it's hard to reconcile the characterization changes both to character and events between the show and the movie. Mostly that of Leland, who in the movie sure seems to be well aware of what he's doing to Laura and also seems to be regularly abusing her even without Bob's influence, as well as Sarah being complicit by clearly being aware he's doing SOMETHING to Laura and acquiescing to him drugging her on the nights he molests Laura. Also Bobby killing the dude at the drug deal is described as something Laura made him do in the show, but doesn't at all play out that way in the actual event. I also find it hard to reconcile that Cooper was dreaming about Laura before she even died, and even spoke about it in detail with Albert, yet that never came up once Cooper was actually on the case of the dead girl he dreamed about a few months prior.

And you know, the eternal frustration that we'll never get an answer about what the hell happened to Chet, to the point where even after two books of tying up loose ends and mythology expansion, Frost laughs about not being able to come up with anything that makes any sense for that character so they just leave it alone.
User avatar
Mr. Reindeer
Lodge Member
Posts: 3056
Joined: Mon Jan 26, 2015 4:09 pm

Re: Fire Walk with Me General Discussion

Postby Mr. Reindeer » Sun Sep 13, 2020 4:43 pm

stro wrote:Sheryl Lee was astoundingly captivating in the movie, but it's hard to reconcile the characterization changes both to character and events between the show and the movie. Mostly that of Leland, who in the movie sure seems to be well aware of what he's doing to Laura and also seems to be regularly abusing her even without Bob's influence, as well as Sarah being complicit by clearly being aware he's doing SOMETHING to Laura and acquiescing to him drugging her on the nights he molests Laura. Also Bobby killing the dude at the drug deal is described as something Laura made him do in the show, but doesn't at all play out that way in the actual event. I also find it hard to reconcile that Cooper was dreaming about Laura before she even died, and even spoke about it in detail with Albert, yet that never came up once Cooper was actually on the case of the dead girl he dreamed about a few months prior.


The Leland stuff in FWWM can be seen as a retcon, and that’s been debated at great length on these forums (especially in the Episode 16 thread). I think the general consensus is that the FWWM portrayal (Leland is on some level complicit) is both more interesting artistically and also more socially responsible, as simply having him be possessed (as the show sometimes seems to imply, mostly in E16) would make the whole abuse angle feel much more exploitative and cheap. I think you can mentally reconcile E16 with FWWM as Leland simply denying responsibility; perhaps in his own conscious mind he even truly believes what he’s saying (this is common in abusers). But in any event, contradictions or no, I think FWWM is a vast improvement over the series in this regard. Interestingly, even Mark (in his recent book of interviews with David Bushman) now says he believes Leland was complicit.

I think there are hints in the series (whether intended or not) that Sarah was aware of the abuse and looked the other way (“What is going on in this house,” “Don’t ruin this too,” etc.). Not to mention her submissive behavior to Leland when, for instance, Andy is sketching Bob in the living room and Leland cruelly mocks her. There are DEFINITELY hints of her complicity in TSDoLP, FWIW. Again, I find her behavior over the course of the entire franchise sadly consistent with many spouses in such situation, whose behavior and knowledge of events may not be consistent from moment to moment. Human behavior is often erratic in even mentally healthy people (if such a thing exists); it’s much moreso in those actively trying to deny reality.

My memory of the Bobby/Jacoby scene is that he says Laura made him sell drugs. I don’t recall any reference ever to her making him kill someone. In fact, James implies that she was upset about it.

EDIT: By the way, are you a new member here? If so, welcome! Things have been slow lately. It’s always great to talk Peaks.
stro
New Member
Posts: 18
Joined: Sun Sep 13, 2020 12:38 pm

Re: Fire Walk with Me General Discussion

Postby stro » Sun Sep 13, 2020 5:25 pm

Mr. Reindeer wrote:
stro wrote:Sheryl Lee was astoundingly captivating in the movie, but it's hard to reconcile the characterization changes both to character and events between the show and the movie. Mostly that of Leland, who in the movie sure seems to be well aware of what he's doing to Laura and also seems to be regularly abusing her even without Bob's influence, as well as Sarah being complicit by clearly being aware he's doing SOMETHING to Laura and acquiescing to him drugging her on the nights he molests Laura. Also Bobby killing the dude at the drug deal is described as something Laura made him do in the show, but doesn't at all play out that way in the actual event. I also find it hard to reconcile that Cooper was dreaming about Laura before she even died, and even spoke about it in detail with Albert, yet that never came up once Cooper was actually on the case of the dead girl he dreamed about a few months prior.


The Leland stuff in FWWM can be seen as a retcon, and that’s been debated at great length on these forums (especially in the Episode 16 thread). I think the general consensus is that the FWWM portrayal (Leland is on some level complicit) is both more interesting artistically and also more socially responsible, as simply having him be possessed (as the show sometimes seems to imply, mostly in E16) would make the whole abuse angle feel much more exploitative and cheap. I think you can mentally reconcile E16 with FWWM as Leland simply denying responsibility; perhaps in his own conscious mind he even truly believes what he’s saying (this is common in abusers). But in any event, contradictions or no, I think FWWM is a vast improvement over the series in this regard. Interestingly, even Mark (in his recent book of interviews with David Bushman) now says he believes Leland was complicit.

I think there are hints in the series (whether intended or not) that Sarah was aware of the abuse and looked the other way (“What is going on in this house,” “Don’t ruin this too,” etc.). Not to mention her submissive behavior to Leland when, for instance, Andy is sketching Bob in the living room and Leland cruelly mocks her. There are DEFINITELY hints of her complicity in TSDoLP, FWIW. Again, I find her behavior over the course of the entire franchise sadly consistent with many spouses in such situation, whose behavior and knowledge of events may not be consistent from moment to moment. Human behavior is often erratic in even mentally healthy people (if such a thing exists); it’s much moreso in those actively trying to deny reality.

My memory of the Bobby/Jacoby scene is that he says Laura made him sell drugs. I don’t recall any reference ever to her making him kill someone. In fact, James implies that she was upset about it.

EDIT: By the way, are you a new member here? If so, welcome! Things have been slow lately. It’s always great to talk Peaks.


Yes. Just signed up after looking for some answers on The Return that the Reddit discussions were either too old or not good enough to find what I was looking for.

I'd also like to know what the fuck Lynch was thinking cutting up the convivence store scene the way he did. The way it plays in the movie vs TMP is like it was intentionally cut up to be as confusing and opaque as possible.
User avatar
Mr. Reindeer
Lodge Member
Posts: 3056
Joined: Mon Jan 26, 2015 4:09 pm

Re: Fire Walk with Me General Discussion

Postby Mr. Reindeer » Sun Sep 13, 2020 5:33 pm

stro wrote:I'd also like to know what the fuck Lynch was thinking cutting up the convivence store scene the way he did. The way it plays in the movie vs TMP is like it was intentionally cut up to be as confusing and opaque as possible.


I mean, it’s pretty intentionally opaque even if you watch it straight through and can understand all the dialogue as in TMP! I love the way it is in the final film, though. It’s disorienting and terrifying and like a barrage on the senses. I think the final edited sequence was more about the mood and making it feel/seem as alien as possible.

If you’re curious, the script has some additional dialogue in that scene that may make things clearer (or less clear...YMMV). Here’s a copy of the script: http://www.lynchnet.com/fwwm/fwwmscript.html
User avatar
AXX°N N.
RR Diner Member
Posts: 398
Joined: Wed Mar 08, 2017 8:47 pm

Re: Fire Walk with Me General Discussion

Postby AXX°N N. » Mon Sep 14, 2020 2:57 am

Retcons such as these can also be chalked up to the fact that people lie. Frost's books have some new twists on fact in them that, also, can only be logically explained away as the characters, as we see them on screen, not being forthright with info in the public setting that is often the camera's angle. For instance, Norma & Vivian's actual relationship as shared in the books is very different from what the old episodes suggest, but does that mean they contradict, or does it now just mean that as we watch them, they're putting up a front for the sake of the public setting they find themselves in?

The problem of Albert never bringing up things from FWWM pales in comparison to what S3 introduces about the history of the Blue Rose squad, and the apparent information trading of Briggs to other characters off-screen. In a show about mystery, and where many characters experience deceit or subterfuge, or are part of the FBI of all things, it kind of, in a way, makes it easy to explain retcons away, by saying, "well, why did you ever trust what you were seeing in the first place?"
Recipe not my own. In a coffee cup. 3 TBS flour, 2 TBS sugar, 1.5 TBS cocoa powder, .25 TSP baking powder, pinch of salt. 3 TBS milk, 1.5 TBS vegetable oil, 1 TBS peanut butter. Add and mix each set. Microwave 1 minute 10 seconds. The cup will be hot.

Return to “Fire Walk With Me (1992)”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 3 guests