Mr. Reindeer wrote:
I think Mark and David have always played pretty fast and loose when using aspects of Native American myths, the occult, astrology, etc. (not to mention chess ). I think they're more interested in cool imagery/ideas than any particular adherence to reality. For instance, it seems like the Owl Cave map -- in addition to laughably containing astrological symbols -- owes most of its style to southwestern cave paintings. Sure, we can retroactively say how cool this is given the New Mexico / atom bomb connection.....but there's no way that was the intent in 1991. I don't think we're going to learn much about the TP mythology from the history of these cave paintings.
But, having said that, I sure as hell would love more info on them. Particularly the funky "owl/Mayor McCheese" one, which has always fascinated me. Never had any idea it was real, assumed it was a prop designer's folly.
Agree. And it DOES look like Mayor McCheese! Nice catch. Too bad Lynch considers product placement efin-bs, otherwise it might be a good opportunity for product placement.
Frost winds all this stuff from the real world together and puts it in a blender. It makes it interesting, but it isn't history.
wxray wrote:Agree. And it DOES look like Mayor McCheese! Nice catch. Too bad Lynch considers product placement efin-bs, otherwise it might be a good opportunity for product placement.
Frost winds all this stuff from the real world together and puts it in a blender. It makes it interesting, but it isn't history.
Some pretty obvious product placement in S03 though : Mercedes, Dell or Rolex immediately come to mind.
wxray wrote:Agree. And it DOES look like Mayor McCheese! Nice catch. Too bad Lynch considers product placement efin-bs, otherwise it might be a good opportunity for product placement.
Frost winds all this stuff from the real world together and puts it in a blender. It makes it interesting, but it isn't history.
Some pretty obvious product placement in S03 though : Mercedes, Dell or Rolex immediately come to mind.
There's a thread devoted to that with plenty of discussion on how those examples aren't actually product placement, but rather real world products shown without trying to hide them.
After some research I found that to the Shoshone (the tribe associated with this paintings), an important giant man-eating owl is named wokaimumbic but could not find a representation of it (maybe it is on page 207 following the name drop: https://books.google.fr/books?id=pm905TfCUS8C&pg=PA206 ? since I did not buy the ebook, I don't know). Could it be the one mentionned before in this thread which would be what the drawing means?
Since it's come up in here I'll just say I've never had the problem others do with Laura as quasi-messianic figure. I think Lynch was building to her ascending in importance and totemic power since before FWWM, and especially in the film. He treats her like a Christ figure in that.
I think people expecting the mysticism surrounding Laura to be toned down going forward will be disappointed, frankly. I think Laura is both a human girl who struggled, suffered, died and ascended and a powerful force for good who was debased and misunderstood in life. Take Roberto Rossellini's portrait of Ingrid Bergman as a modern saint in Europa '51- similar idea.
I don't think either aspect of Laura cancels the other out or invalidates either. I think Lynch is going all in on elevating Laura to heroic myth beyond the abused girl/femme fatale, and I am all for it, transgressive or not. I love the audacity of it. He is breaking every 'rule' and saying Laura is the central cosmic savior of the series- but I think she always was. I think episode 29 and FWWM bear that out. I think all we saw a week ago was explicit onscreen evidence after 25 years.
AnotherBlueRoseCase wrote:The Return is clearly guaranteed a future audience among stoners and other drug users.
N. Needleman wrote:Just crossposting my own nonsense:
Since it's come up in here I'll just say I've never had the problem others do with Laura as quasi-messianic figure. I think Lynch was building to her ascending in importance and totemic power since before FWWM, and especially in the film. He treats her like a Christ figure in that.
I think people expecting the mysticism surrounding Laura to be toned down going forward will be disappointed, frankly. I think Laura is both a human girl who struggled, suffered, died and ascended and a powerful force for good who was debased and misunderstood in life. Take Roberto Rossellini's portrait of Ingrid Bergman as a modern saint in Europa '51- similar idea.
I don't think either aspect of Laura cancels the other out or invalidates either. I think Lynch is going all in on elevating Laura to heroic myth beyond the abused girl/femme fatale, and I am all for it, transgressive or not. I love the audacity of it. He is breaking every 'rule' and saying Laura is the central cosmic savior of the series- but I think she always was. I think episode 29 and FWWM bear that out. I think all we saw a week ago was explicit onscreen evidence after 25 years.
Anything that gives Sheryl Lee more screen time is good with me. She was _spectacular_ in FWWM.
Is the InsectFrog Laura? Is it Bob? I'm actually thinking maybe it could be more woodsmen...Only because it seems the woodsmen work in tandem with the InsectFrog.
But the InsectFrog going inside a little girl, doesnt make much sense for it to then become a woodsmen, so not sure.
Thoughts?
Gotta light?
"Wanting something to be different will not make it so." "Explaining a different rule is not complaining for months. A lie will never be true." - Dale Cooper: My Life, My Tapes.
I'd been hoping that "The Return" would signify Laura's return at least as much as Dale's. When she was caught up in a whirlwind in the Red Room and Leland asked Cooper to find her, I was optimistic. Watching Part 8 I was ecstatic.
Something I've entertained since Part 1 is that "Linda" will be played by Sheryl Lee and will be Laura's new incarnation. Since we've now seen ???????'s role in Laura's story - whatever that is - it makes sense that he would draw Cooper's attention to her, whomever she may be now.
I've already gone places. I just want to stay where I am.
After some research I found that to the Shoshone (the tribe associated with this paintings), an important giant man-eating owl is named wokaimumbic but could not find a representation of it (maybe it is on page 207 following the name drop: https://books.google.fr/books?id=pm905TfCUS8C&pg=PA206 ? since I did not buy the ebook, I don't know). Could it be the one mentionned before in this thread which would be what the drawing means?
This stuff is so cool, thanks for hunting it down! So the Owl Cave map appears to be heavily influenced by glpyhs from somewhere in Wyoming known as Torrey Creek/Whiskey Basin. Intriguingly, Torrey Creek is said to drain into Wind River (also the name of the real-life river in southwestern Wa. where Teresa's body washes up in FWWM!). The blog you linked also has a gallery of glyphs from an area called "BUCKHORN Wash" in Utah. All probably a coincidence, but an interesting one. (Or perhaps some free-association on the parts of L/F.)
I've still yet to make my pilgrimage to the Snoqualmie/North Bend area (perhaps this is one for the TP "sins" thread). But I'm already adding these Wyoming caves to the bucket list as well.
Last edited by Mr. Reindeer on Tue Jul 04, 2017 8:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.
sycamore wrote:
So, finally, what DID happen on August 5, 1956? This Google search led nowhere:
"August 5, 1956" "New Mexico"
But when I added "UFO" to that search, ... I got this page with references to Devil's Gate in LA, Native Americans, portals, negative energy, Jack Parsons (founder of JPL), rituals, occult, the 'Mother Abominations', and the kidnapping and murder of a boy (13) and girl (11) on August 5, 1956. http://hauntedlosangeles.blogspot.com/2014/02
However, that occurred in Los Angeles, not New Mexico. But for those who have read TSHOTP and have seen Part 8, the correlations are way to much to ignore. It seems as though Jack Parsons awoke some very big dark energies when his rituals concluded and he died on June 17, 1952. And it seems to have had an effect far wider than the LA area. When you get to the end of this webpage, do you recognize something similar to the picture of the "Jersey Devil???"
Wow. Bob. Wow.
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Jack Parsons and the string of murders are directly mentioned in TSHOTP - Page 260 - so it's definitely not any coincidence. It even goes on to mention that the man was controlled by voices to commit the murders (my bet is on the Woodsman reciting some more poetry).
TwinsPeak wrote:Is the InsectFrog Laura? Is it Bob? I'm actually thinking maybe it could be more woodsmen...Only because it seems the woodsmen work in tandem with the InsectFrog.
But the InsectFrog going inside a little girl, doesnt make much sense for it to then become a woodsmen, so not sure.
Thoughts?
Gotta light?
Both Laura and Bob came in Orbs. The FrogRoach came from an egg ( also spewed put into the stream by Mother). So my guess would be something other than Laura or Bob.
). I think they're more interested in cool imagery/ideas than any particular adherence to reality. For instance, it seems like the Owl Cave map -- in addition to laughably containing astrological symbols -- owes most of its style to southwestern cave paintings. Sure, we can retroactively say how cool this is given the New Mexico / atom bomb connection.....but there's no way that was the intent in 1991. I don't think we're going to learn much about the TP mythology from the history of these cave paintings.
